NASA @ big willow or Redline @ the streets?

[racepar1]

I am contemplating which event to attend next. Both are feb 9&10 both are $150 plus transponder. Either event I would go on the 9th and either event I would be aiming to beat my previous best time. I was just at big willow so I am leaning towards the redline event. Any zilvians planning on attending either one?

[S14SwimShark105]

I'm trying to just save all of my money up to go to all of the NASA events and work towards getting my racing license, but going to the open track days are a good way to get in some extra practice, if you factor in everything it's probably about $250+ dollars a day but it's just so fun!!! haha Big willow scares me although I've never been on it, Streets of Willow is where it's at haha

[ALEXTHESUS*PECT]

there are atleast 3 steady nasa drivers on this board, and i'm sure they will be there!

[mehsilvia]

there are atleast 3 steady nasa drivers on this board, and i'm sure they will be there!

Yeah, im one of them and cant make it :rant: Its the wife's birthday weekend :love:

SNC240SX and UNITEDMASTER might be going, but i would think to NASA Big Willow. Not sure about my other regular pit-buddy ZODIACSR

Oh, btw. Big Willow is the shit. High-speed & technical & intimidating to most.

[racepar1]

IDK, it didn't intimidate me at all. I LOVE the big track, even in the rain. The only reason I am leaning towards the streets is because I was JUST at the big track last weekend. It would be fun to go back and actually get a dry run at it though.

[SNC240SX]

I really want to go to this event since its the start of a new season and i really love Big Willow but im not sure if ill go since im not sure i can afford it. After this weekend im gonna decide but right now it doesnt look positive for me.

[MomentumGT]

I would suggest Big Willow. Streets can get really conjested at certain sections with all the newer track guys not knowing the lines and such. Streets also tends to bring out the full throttle/gun-ho/race or die drivers out to play, but thats just me.

-Jon

[mehsilvia]

I would suggest Big Willow. Streets can get really conjested at certain sections with all the newer track guys not knowing the lines and such. Streets also tends to bring out the full throttle/gun-ho/race or die drivers out to play, but thats just me.

-Jon

You are absolutely right about that. Not to mention the Redline Hype and TA giving most of them reason to drive way beyond their ability.

[junkyiv]

Big Willow for SPEED and Streets for TECHNICALITY. What do you want to work on more?

[racepar1]

^^^ Well I do have a stock KADE soooo....... LOL! Really I like both tracks, that is why I am so torn.

[UNITEDMASTER]

Hello all Im going to go to NASA big willow on SAT only. I would have to agree with the others about the streets. I usually only run the streets when there is nothing else going on. I would say get practice in at the big track cause thats where the actual racing goes down. Just my .02. Also one of my business partners is going with his spec racer ford & we might bring out one of our Viper clients if I get the tranny back in time. C YA there!!!

[racepar1]

Right now I am not focusing on any kind of competition. I am solely focusing on testing and perfecting my set-ups as well as learning EXACTLY what each and every adjustment on the car does to the handling characteristics of the car. I really need to go back to the streets to test my new set-up against my old one, so that is what I have decided to do. I'll try to stop by the NASA event to check it out, see you guys there!

[UNITEDMASTER]

Hello people ,Im paid & registered for the NASA event!!!! See ya out there

[racepar1]

Dammit! Bills are holding me back! It is my birthday this week though so hopefully mom and pop hook me up with some cash! The redline event is booked on saturday, so I think i'm gunna buy my nasa membership just in case.

[jayesone]

Going to Sunday's event, running in the HPDE2 class, for practice. see ya guys there.

[Relentless350Z]

I will be out there getting my competition license in my white Evo IX w/time attack CE28Ns. Come by and say hello! I think Kognition is going too to help test out a splitter for the Evo.

[UNITEDMASTER]

^^^^ O snap thats cool, so Mike(kognition) wil be out there. I want/need to chat with him . How is the Z doing are you guys ready for TA 08. I like that new lil 10-15 lap race deal redline has started, will they do it at Laguna, I know it will be at VIR & another track. GL see you giys out there.

[Relentless350Z]

^^^^ O snap thats cool, so Mike(kognition) wil be out there. I want/need to chat with him . How is the Z doing are you guys ready for TA 08. I like that new lil 10-15 lap race deal redline has started, will they do it at Laguna, I know it will be at VIR & another track. GL see you giys out there.

Well I showed up and got about 3 laps in before the motor on the Evo went. :( I left shortly after down to San Diego to drop it off with my mechanic for repairs. Needless to say Mike (kognition) didn't go to the track since the car was now going to his neck of the woods :).

The Z is torn apart right now as well getting refreshed for the season. No major changes since Laguna last year, just needed some up-keep after a hard season of running all 3 classes back to back.

The wheel to wheel thing will be fun for sure. So far, its only going to happen at the GT Live events though (VIR and Miller Motorsports Park).

[racepar1]

That SUCKS man! How did everyone else do?

[jayesone]

very fast track, started having boost problems after couple laps. I only saw one Red S14, anyone from the boards? I was there with the S2k that spun and the Red GT40

[racepar1]

^^^What kinda times were you running? I ran a 1:41.24 last time I was out there, but I only got one hot lap in that session before the rain.

[UNITEDMASTER]

Hello , I was out there in a black S13 coupe,my car was a handfull to drive,my tire choice was not good, I didnt have good grip at all. So the confidence factor was way low(car just would not stick/hold the line). Other than that it was a good day ,I did manage to put 2 wheels off in 9, no biggie.

RELENTLESS- I saw you when you were leaving ,I didnt get a chance to say hello, being so busy going back & forth to download meetings. Sucks that the motor took a dump ,I was wondering why you were leaving so early. See you next time

[steve shadows]

^ what tires were you using?

Assuming I get a good wind splitter set up- my car should be brutal around that course.

[racepar1]

It'll be tricky around that course with all your power. Downforce would be nice, but not necessary as I don't think your cornering speeds would be high enough to make a huge difference. You would probably be prone to overbraking for a while as you would have a ton of speed on the straights and you would have to modulate the throttle a lot through turn 2. Where as with my rockin 130whp I can be flat out through 2, the tire scrub is enough to hold my speed. It just punishes the holy hell out of the left front tire!

[steve shadows]

Yeah I already have problems with over or under braking

Im adding better ducting and porterfield pads before the next time I hit the track.

[Nikeboy355]

I really should have gone...

My S13 is still prepped for one or two more events...
I really wanted to run Big Willow also...

Next time for sure...

[steve shadows]

^ no one wanted to give me any offer on the car, so Im keeping it.

[Relentless350Z]

It'll be tricky around that course with all your power. Downforce would be nice, but not necessary as I don't think your cornering speeds would be high enough to make a huge difference. You would probably be prone to overbraking for a while as you would have a ton of speed on the straights and you would have to modulate the throttle a lot through turn 2. Where as with my rockin 130whp I can be flat out through 2, the tire scrub is enough to hold my speed. It just punishes the holy hell out of the left front tire!

Are you talking about big willow or streets of willow? If there is ever a track that favors high horsepower and downforce, its big willow.

[racepar1]

Ya but the only corner that you will really be going fast enough for aero to really take effect is turn 8. As a general rule significant downforce will not be developed untill about 100mph. Turn 9 and 2 are about 70-90mph corners so there will not be a huge amount of downforce generated. It will do something but the results will be marginal. The main point that I am trying to get across is that it is just a racetrack. A lot of people are either intimidated by it or think that they need huge power and tons of aero to set a good time and that is just not true. REALLY big willow is not a power track, it is a momentum track. A formula atlantic car has less than 250hp at the crankshaft but they run 1:13 laps there. Why? Because they just don't slow down. Aero and power are not NECESSARY. A well developed suspension/tire set-up is.

[Relentless350Z]

Ya but the only corner that you will really be going fast enough for aero to really take effect is turn 8. As a general rule significant downforce will not be developed untill about 100mph. Turn 9 and 2 are about 70-90mph corners so there will not be a huge amount of downforce generated. It will do something but the results will be marginal. The main point that I am trying to get across is that it is just a racetrack. A lot of people are either intimidated by it or think that they need huge power and tons of aero to set a good time and that is just not true. REALLY big willow is not a power track, it is a momentum track. A formula atlantic car has less than 250hp at the crankshaft but they run 1:13 laps there. Why? Because they just don't slow down. Aero and power are not NECESSARY. A well developed suspension/tire set-up is.

Yes of course, but we are talking about production based street cars, not formula atlantics. You can also argue that any track is a momentum track. You have to think of not only what downforce can do throught he mid-corner, but also what it does after the corner. Because you have a higher mid-corner speed in 8 & 9, lets say 5mph, your exit speed will be higher and will multiply down the front straigh so at the end of that straight you may be 10 or 15 mph faster than if you did not have the downforce in 8 & 9. Remember also that downforce aides in braking and acceleration, which again would be beneficial at the end of the front straight, in between 8 & 9, going into turns 2 & 3, and coming out of turns 9, 1, and 2. Lets also not forget about that crest after turn 5, which in a high horsepower car is likely to be a 100+mph zone.

I am not saying that aero is necessary or better than a proper suspension/tire setup, but it can be very beneficial. Especially on a track like big willow.

[racepar1]

All tracks are not momentum tracks. For example california speedway infield course. It goes hairpin, straight, hairpin, straight, ...... It is basically a series of drag races. Another thing to remember about downforce though is that is creates drag. That 5mph at the exit of the corner (which is a HUGE amount of exitspeed difference) will not necessarily translate to a lot of additional speed at the end of the straight because of the extra drag caused by that downforce. I am not trying to make you look stupid or even be right by the way, I just like having intelligent arguments as most of the time if people leave out the insults everyone learns something from it.

[Relentless350Z]

All tracks are not momentum tracks. For example california speedway infield course. It goes hairpin, straight, hairpin, straight, ...... It is basically a series of drag races. Another thing to remember about downforce though is that is creates drag. That 5mph at the exit of the corner (which is a HUGE amount of exitspeed difference) will not necessarily translate to a lot of additional speed at the end of the straight because of the extra drag caused by that downforce. I am not trying to make you look stupid or even be right by the way, I just like having intelligent arguments as most of the time if people leave out the insults everyone learns something from it.

My point was that momentum will help you on any track, even Cal Speedway's infield. Some tracks will benefit more from momentum than others, but every track can arguably called a momentum track.

As stated before, I am aware that downforce modifications like canards and wings produce drag. There is a point though where the downforce will outweigh the drag in performance. Higher exit speed can still translate to higher speed at the end of the straight, regardless of the drag it also produces. Thats why wings are adjustable, so you can find a balance of downforce and drag that works for your car and the track you are at. Road racing is full of trade-offs. You can't have your car set up 100% for left turns and right turns at the same time just like you can't have tons of downforce and no drag. Its a compromise, just like you compromise one turn for another, more important turn. You have to look at what gets you a faster lap as a whole. Downforce might make you slower on some parts of the course, but faster on other and more important parts of the course, resulting in a faster lap time.

[racepar1]

The thing about all of this though is that it is all relative. If you have a 130whp stock KA (like me) you may benefit more from reducing drag. If you have a 400+hp z (like you) you may benefit more from increasing downforce. There will be a point where the increased drag outweighs the benefits from the added downforce too. It is all about finding the balance like you said. I think undercar aero is absolutely the most effective way to make downforce though. Canards and wings are just to tune the aero balance of the car. Undercar aero (like undertrays and diffusers) will increase downforce and reduce drag, while wings and canards will increase drag significantly.

[Relentless350Z]

The thing about all of this though is that it is all relative. If you have a 130whp stock KA (like me) you may benefit more from reducing drag. If you have a 400+hp z (like you) you may benefit more from increasing downforce. It is all about finding the balance like you said. I think undercar aero is absolutely the most effective way to make downforce though. Canards and wings are just to tune the aero balance of the car. Undercar aero (like undertrays and diffusers) will increase downforce and reduce drag, while wings and canards will increase drag significantly.

Yes I absolutely agree, but the car we originally started talking about was high horsepower. And undercar aero is definately the best way to go, but not usually an "off the shelf" part with the exception of front splitters for a lot of cars.