is the 240sx engine really a truck engine?

[i hate rice rockets]

alot of ppl been telling me that my engine is a truck engine...is this really true?...if u guys can answer that fo me thx...

[BadMoJo]

...no, #### that truck engine statement! &nbsp;well it shares alot of the same parts and such. the trucks use a KA24e as well as the 89-90 240. but the 91+ 240 got the DOHC KA24DE &nbsp;and the trucks kept the KA24e. I dunno if the truck KA24e and the 240 KA24e share same cam or not. But I know alot of people here know all the exact details on it though. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> &nbsp;Still the KA is a torque rich engine with weak top end which is why it gets called &quot;crap&quot; by almost every import mag out there. But its bullet proof once you do rods and pistons. A built KA can be a beautiful thing, so dont let people call it crap cuz its roots are from a truck.... just look at the viper! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[chickenmanq]

Most people don't understand how engines work, and with the general ignorance, think a Honda engine setup is the only way to build 4 cylinders. &nbsp;(High top end, weak bottom end coupled with light weight.)

High torque, med to high hp found primarily in what started out as truck engines used to be the best way to build a bulletproof powerplant and a strong 1/4 mile runner. &nbsp;The only problem with old muscle cars that had that kind of setup was they couldn't corner worth a ####. &nbsp;And they sucked a lot of gas.

Enter Honda, which makes very good engines. &nbsp;The problem with Honda is there is next to nothing for torque. &nbsp;Their engines are designed to stay in the upper rpm band to take advantage of the hp. &nbsp;Even with an engine designed like this, they are capable of very fast runs.

Hp is how much power the engine generates. &nbsp;Think of torque as how long that horsepower lasts, and how much rotational force it provides while not using the hp.

Torque is much more desirable to have, especially in a RWD car, because the extra rotational effort makes up for less hp to move the same weight. &nbsp;It's why diesels are used for hauling. &nbsp;They don't have a lot of hp, but the torque is incredible. &nbsp;On my dad's 95 Dodge Cummins, the hp is 220, but the torque is close to 500 ft-lbs. &nbsp;Funny enough, many people have been using the Cummins diesel found in the dodge trucks to absolutely smoke about any car, Viper style or Honda. &nbsp;Once you build the drivetrain to handle the torque, those trucks are capable of super fast 1/4's. &nbsp;Dr. Performance back in Spokane has tuned some to run around 4 or 500 hp, with somewhere close to 1000 ft-lb's of torque. &nbsp;With the proper drivetrain, and injector/turbo setup, you can get a fullsize Dodge 4x4 smoking all four tires for 60 feet or more. &nbsp;And they easily beat Vipers, even though they weigh about 2 or 3000 pound more.

Yeah, the 240 is sort of a truck engine. &nbsp;That's a good thing. &nbsp;With 140hp and 140 ft-lbs of torque, (for example) we can easily beat a car that has say, 155 hp and 110 ft-lbs of torque. &nbsp;Just an estimate.

And no, the truck sohc KA, and the 240 sohc KA don't have the same camshaft. &nbsp;I believe the intake manifold is slightly different, too, although I'm not positive on that.

Love your KA. &nbsp;It's a #### of a lot better and more fun engine design. &nbsp;Anyone that bags on it because it's a &quot;truck&quot; engine doesn't know shit about automobiles.

[S13Grl]

&quot;Truck engine&quot;. I don't see anything wrong with having a truck motor <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>. I honestly don't. Lots of torque, great power line... The KA is a great motor. When someone tells you you've got a truck motor, ask them what is so bad about it? No high end power? WRONG!

[gsrcamel]

Sorry I like to hear the sing of high end engines. But remember this you drive with torque but you buy HP.
Still plan on getting the more revvy sr20 =-)

[silk]

ive been a die hard viper fan since i was 5 years old...1989 i saw the first prototype and then i saw the 8.0 litre v-10. i fell in love with the monster torque and if youve seen the torque curve its practically at peak torque all they way through redline. so when i look at my 240 i see the viper of imports...massive, lowend, tire-smokin torque. and that makes me happy, truck base or not...and then you can always whoop a honda's ass then tell em a truck engine beat em.

(Edited by silk at 3:40 pm on Jan. 27, 2002)

[drift freaq]

hehehehe ya I am right there with you silk . Tell them a truck engine just whipped there race bred high revin Honda ass. heheheheh but technically the KA is not a truck engine . It came first in cars . It was designed with the American market in mind though. Nissan knows Americans luuuuuuvve torque! Ok that said they kA is actually still a pretty decent rev engine. consider this . Most V8's get their peak hp and an torque around 4500 rpm maybe 5500 at most . Except for the ultramodern DOHC V8's which though they can rev street wise still develop their HP under 5000 rpm. Ok Now a KA can rev too 6500-7000 and if you cam it right you can take advantage of that revability . Remember an SR20DEt redline is like 7500 that is not that much higher. Now a CA18DET now we are talking rev machine it can rum all the way up to 8000. Back in the day when I owned my 510(2000lb car) with a pumped 150 hp 1600 a 2000cc engine was not considered very rev friendly compared to 1600 and 1800's that is still &nbsp;true the SR20 is closer in its rev band to the KA than people choose to admit. They don't want you to decide not to do a SR swap . Why because they the import shops will not make as much money if they can't sell you a
SR swap. (he rambles off into the dark night mumbling its a conspiracy I tell you )LOL &nbsp; point ,made
I like CA18DET's alot .
I am also a big fan of KA+T i.e. put a Turbo on that mother

[gh6o6]

dont we have the biggest 4 cyl from the factory? my friends audi is a 5 cyl and its like a 2.2 or something

[BadMoJo]

Subaru has the 2.5 liter 4. 165hp ~177torque &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> &nbsp;its a nice engine.

[S13Grl]

KA turbo all the way. I definitely love these motors. I love the power band, I love the torque, I'm even satisfied with the stock horsepower. (not that satisfied, though... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> ).

It's like this: KA, then RB, then RB again, then CA, then SR.

But... I don't have a 240... it's all a big conspiracy. I think I'll start running off into the night, crying and pulling my hair, hoping to find an abandoned 240SX with a low-mileage KA24DE-motor and a five-speed transmission with a straight frame, and a few miles after, preferably an XS turbo kit with an upgraded Skyline FMIC and an Apex'i SAFC, GReddy's turbo timer, N1 Dual Exhaust System, a turbo-ready JWT ECU system, JUN lightweight flywheel, a Centerforce Stage III clutch, an HKS super-sequential blow-off-valve, APEX coilovers, with Cusco front and rear strut bars as well as sway bars accompanied by a B&amp;M short-shifter, a cold-air-intake, Brembo rotors and pads, steel brake lines and Cusco upper arms. Oh, did I mention the Cusco LSD? I'll take care of the installation. I'll buy new rubber. I'll buy the gas. I'll pay for insurance.

[MyFirst240SX]

I think the Pontaic Fiero Has something like a 2.8 4. &nbsp;I could be wrong tho.........

[COUGAR]

anybody that bags on you guys for sharin some parts with a truck needs to udnerstand these two words and all their meaning ford-mutha-fruckin-lightning! thats a nice big bad 6spd SS comaro getting stomped by a truck!... hehe TQ is your friend...

[whateverjames]

i used to get so mad about people saying i had a truck motor. but who cares what anyone thinks. if i have a truck motor, a honda motor is a weed eater motor. a vette motor is a truck motor right? wrrrrong! or the same 5.7L in a truck is a vette motor?? ya, i'd be driving a truck. now the KA's block is based on a truck motor, if you look for timing chains on a certain website, they'll fit the Z22 motors and even some minivan over in japan that shares the same block. it's the cylinder head, intake manifold, cams and pistons that make what a engine is, not just one component, a block.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from gh6o6 on 9<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>3 pm on Jan. 27, 2002
dont we have the biggest 4 cyl from the factory? my friends audi is a 5 cyl and its like a 2.2 or something
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
porsche 944 has a 3.0L four cyl.

[chickenmanq]

The 2.8 was a 6 cylinder in the Fiero. &nbsp;As far as biggest four cylinders, Mazda gets that award, oddly enough. &nbsp;Back in the day when they were real Mazdas, the trucks came with a 2.6 liter 4 with fuel injection. &nbsp;I never have ridden in one, but I would think they would make a decent amount of power. &nbsp;Poor me, I had the 2.0 liter Mazda pickup. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

[drift freaq]

no doubt the lightening is one #### amazing truck!!!

runs off into the night mumbling its a Ford conspiracy

hahahahahhaha

[White240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from BadMoJo on 4:17 pm on Jan. 27, 2002
... But I know alot of people here know all the exact details on it though. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I know a few of them...

The 240sx KA was build in Japan; the truck motor was built in Mexico. The 240sx KA also had oil squirters, which the truck engine did not.

And just for the records the KA first appeared in the Stanza in SOHC and FWD format (I have no idea who started the whole &quot;truck&quot; motor thing).

[misnomer]

Well, it's been at least a month since I've said it, so we are in good shape. All an engine does is make a metal shaft spin. That's it. It's the car built around it that determines what it is.

Calling (or worse, bashing) an engine a &quot;truck engine&quot; is just somebody talking who doesn't know what they're talking about. ####, by that logic, my dad's Chevy van is running on the legendary Corvette engine. . .

Yes, engines will have different characteristics dependant on their design, such as high torque or high revving. Doesn't mean one engine doesn't belong in a particular car. You have excellent engines at both ends of the spectrum. For example, compare a high-revving Skyline to a lower revving Corvette. Both are badass cars, but both drive differently. I myself am a torque whore, because on the street driving to work, you're more likely to pass that school bus at 3500 rpms than 6500.

Again, I repeat. An engine simply makes a l'il shaft sping, everything else determines the car.

[pchio]

I always call my KA truck motor, but I still love it a lot! =D

[thewholefnshow]

The old sapporo's and challengers had a short stint at a 2.6 liter 4 cyl... I like the idea of the torque, it is a great thing. Honestly though, that is why a lot of people steep up to a v6... great engine for torque. 3 liter v6's are one of the easiest engines to push hard, and i6's even better. But back to the point. Look for instance at the sohc neon engine that you can buy from mopar. 2 liter, single cam, 160hp 152 ft/lbs.... Or look at the 1.6 liter toyota engine that you could wedge into your trueno, hachi roku or corolla. They made a 1.6 that's right a 1.6 that naturally aspirated made 256 ft/lbs of torque and 240 hp (depends on the exact model you find however this engine was basically race ready!)

I like displacement, the viper has been my fav for a long time (well till I fell for the silvia) and I still get weak in the knees when I see a 426 hemi pass by on the road and light em up at 60 miles an hour in an auto <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> .... But at anyrate. Look at the bottom of the ka, not the strongest... needs some work, and the sr20 makes good torque for a turbo engine... don't make me bring up the 4g63 evo engine making a whopping 280ft/lbs at 3500 rpms... and the older models made 275 at 3k! A well my rant is nearing completion. Our engine is a modification of what was a truck engine, however the de only ever showed up in cars like the 240 and the altima. But deep down it is not a race engine by any means. &nbsp;OH, and just a point, that lots of torque low down really makes racing tougher and easier to boot the back end out.

['91 D21 beater]

Whatever, The Truck's KA does not even have a full crank girdle like the 240SX KA. Big difference in construction. Piston oil squirter/cooler.

And what define a race motor? What's your definition? You point on that is very subjective. There is no clean cut definition of a race motor. Heck, if you ask around which block is better boosting, the KA... Iron block is always going to be stronger than an aluminum block.

And the torque down low means a big fat power band. Not have to worry about being in the wrong rpm range and slow down and lose the race.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from thewholefnshow on 9:21 am on Jan. 28, 2002
Our engine is a modification of what was a truck engine, however the de only ever showed up in cars like the 240 and the altima. But deep down it is not a race engine by any means. OH, and just a point, that lots of torque low down really makes racing tougher and easier to boot the back end out. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

[thewholefnshow]

TOTALLY AGREE! Everyone always takes it the wrong way when I say this. The bottom end, that is the crank itself needs to be rebuilt... Can anyone tell me if somebody sells a reinforced crank for our car? And the piston squirters re great tech... almost nobody builds that stuff. I dunno, I love the smoothness and the torque of my engine, it just seems to be a sluggish engine when spinning. Every so oftern when I stomp it is comes alive, but I guess deep down I hav a desire to ride up to 7000 rpms... And the BLOCK of the KA is better for boosting to a point, the block will take it but the rest of the engine won't without serious work, that is why I like an engine that was built for turbo's to turbo. I know you get great results with our engine, but I guess it is just the technology and craftsamnship of the SR that draws me... the ka seems like something that was just built because they couldn't use the real engine here... it is better than pretty much any engine out there for scc's... but still. God what a rambling incoherent mess that was.

[drift freaq]

thewholefnshow writess......
Our engine is a modification of what was a truck engine, however the de only ever showed up in cars like the 240 and the altima. But deep down it is not a race engine by any means.

______________________________________________

Ok this is where you need to learn a little more about Nissan history. Our engines did not evolve from a so called Truck motor.
They evolved from a workhorse Nissan engine that was put in all kinds of Nissans across the board. To start with lets go back to 1960. Thats when Mercedes Benz decided to discontinue there aluminum block 4 cylinder 190 engine due to heating problems . In classic coporate oversight they sold the design off to Nissan. Nissan took the engine and proceed to modify the design I.E. mainly they gave a cast iron block. eliminated the heat problems and walla the L series engines were born. Yes the little workhorse of the 510 an L16. Nissan stuck this engine in just about everything with different tuning. 510's, 521 pickups, Japanese Police cars(SSS trim 510's ) Japanese taxicabs etc.... Its big brother was the L24 the Z car engine which was basically a L16 with two more cylinders.L18's,L20B's,L26'sand L28's followed suit. Well for that part of this lesson the rest is history many glorious races one by Z cars and 510's. With a derivative of the Engine still being stuck in trucks. Next in Line was the evolution of the design the NapsZ engine a 8 plug(designed for smog) 2 liter in its first rentition and then upped to 2.2 and 2.4 our engine descends directly from the NapsZ. That engine like I stated earlier wound up in a lot of Nissans exports and cars and trucks in Japan. It was in trucks yes but I wish you guys would learn your history before you spouting off. Fact is Nissan has always stuck their car engines in Trucks albeit quite often tuned for more torque. So this totally nullifys anyones comments about it being descended from a truck motor or being a truck motor . Get over it people learn your facts or be quit. Don't keep on spreading this crap.
Oh yeah and the comment about it never being designed as a race engine. Da no !!!! We are talking about mass produced car engines here folks. Until very recently no manufacture put out race engines for the street period (unless you want to include Honda who's engines are designed like race engines) . high end sports cars have engines derived from race engines tuned for everyday street use . Unless they are exoticars. Of course Nissan is not going to put a race engine in our car. Its a street machine that sold for $17,000 new. Get real. Guess what the 240Z's engine stock was not a race engine it was a stock inline 6 putting out 150hp yes only 150hp. Our engines are equilivent to that and our cars at least S13's weigh in at the same weight as a 1973 240Z(2750 lb's) . granted the earlier Z's weighed 2400 lb's The point is made. We are not as bad off as we think and we need to get over peoples misconception of whole truck engine thing.
#### even Craig Liberman showed me his ignorance at the LA International auto show when he told me it was a truck engine. hahahahahaha did not want to burst Mr Skylines bubble in front of everybody . We can't have Nissan boosters looking bad in Public . Though If I had had the chance I would have pulled him aside and educated his ass.

steps down off the podium as class files out, hahahahahahaha

[geeaj]

*Raises his hand* Is there an open book pop quiz tomarrow on the lineage of the Nissan &quot;truck&quot; motors?..hehehe

Had to say &quot;truck&quot; on more time bro!

[duderiffic]

Hey!!! &nbsp;My car was $24,500!! (#### what a ripoff!!)

[mbmbmb23]

I've heard people race sprint cars with chevy vortech turboed 6cylinder engines in them (GMC Typhoon, Cyclone engines)....not to mention drag racing the actual Cyclones themselves in FL.

Also, what makes a ford mustang what it is??.......a 302 V8 motor. &nbsp;Thats a truck motor if I've ever seen one.....but...the engine has gained notoriety from being in the mustang.....even tho its in the F150 and some older Broncos (the non 351 broncos).

Seems to me that 240SX's never totally caught on in the states, and people are looking for a reason to blame for this....so they resort to the &quot;truck engine&quot; arguement. &nbsp;The reason they never caught on was because Nissan didnt want them to compete in the 300ZX's market ...so they kept the 240SX pretty simple. &nbsp;Fortunately for us, the years have gone by...and there are some nice 240's floating around for really cheap....not to mention boatloads of SR engines and mods coming to the states quite regularly now.


m

[rampid360]

just to add my 2 pennies, the 4 cylinder fiero was a 2.5. &nbsp; &nbsp;In its prime, cranked out 92hp and 134 ft. lbs. of torque. &nbsp; (I learned to drive a manual on my friend's grandpa's fiero) &nbsp;god i loved that car, makes me think back to those summer days...when i bought a go-kart

[Freak Leash 240]

The very first Nissan to use the KA engine in America was the Stanza, which doesn't look much like a truck to me.

[whoizrob]

For whatever it's worth think about this concept:

RPM is what kills motors. More RPM means more friction, which means more worn parts. You want a high RPM screamer, sure build it, but it'll cost you for the initial build and guess what? It'll cost yah for the upkeep. RPM doesn't come cheap.

Torque doesn't kill engines. It makes them drivable at almost any RPM. &nbsp;They are easy to build, just add displacement and for the most part aren't too tempermental (IE poor idle with the lump ass cams high RPMers like to run). I love the fact that I can cruise at 2K, saving gas and the car will still pull out of it. Try doing that in an engine which requires high RPM for power.

A high RPM motor requires that you drive it in a very tight RPM band for it to do it's work. You can call it a true race engine but you might be missing some points. Number one their budget is immeasurably more than yours, their operating conditions are vastly more controlled than yours and well defined, their entire cars are built around that RPM band (yeah you have a nice engine, what about your gearbox?) and lastly, their drivers are skilled enough to keep the engine at full song at the right RPM and shift points to make the car dance.

Now back to reality, wipe the drool off your face. Reality is this: no matter how much money mommy and daddy gave you, you aren't a race team and in the end, the engine will bite you. My car is paid off, I live in a nice house, and I still have money in the bank. Cars are like kids, and they'll eat you out of house and home. Secondly, your car is a daily driver and might double as a track car but the fact of the matter is when you drive on the street you are subject to all sorts of RPM bands in all sorts of terrain. As much as your stickers might proclaim, your car is not a race car. Race cars are SITUATION specific and are built as such. Like I said earlier, have you even thought of touching your gearbox, how many sets of sway bar set ups do you have, and where's your log book? Didnt think so. Lastly, I don't care how good of a driver you might think you are, heck maybe you are pretty good, but keeping the car in &quot;the zone&quot; requires a lot of attention and dilegence reserved for the track (not to mention fancy footwork) and you can't keep that up on the street.

So what I am getting at is, many people like talking about &quot;what if&quot; and dreaming. But reality has to set in at some point in time and you need to define what you REALLY WANT and what you REALLY NEED for your application. Me? I love driving my car in the hills and as such I do a lot of shifting and am sometimes caught in a steep corner undergeared and guess what? I punch it and the torque pulls me out. I am on the freeway and I want to make a pass, the torque pulls me through. I look at the guy with his cute girlfriend and he's revin at 4grand; I go while he bogs out. Unless you want to drive like a retard at 6K+ all day and burn out engines, you need to evaluate your needs. If a screamer is what you need, more power to yah, god knows I love the S2000, but if you find that you love a fast, reliable, fun car to go to work, do the occaisional auto-x and just mess around, don't even think about bagging on my KA24, it just shows how ignorant you really are. So for crist sakes lets put this thread to sleep and get on with it. Buy the eninge you want, build it, drive it, and frigging have fun with it no apologies.

Just my humble 2 cents <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Rob

[whoizrob]

oh.. and PS, for you turbo heads out there:

more displacement means more exhaust gas. More exhaust gas means bigger turbo. Bigger turbo means more power at less boost. Less boost means les chance of detonation and less need to build up your engine which means:

MORE POWER FOR LESS CASH <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

(yeah I know building a KA turbo setup costs about the same as a built SR... but I'll still make more power with the same turbo and less lag, if you don't understand that fundamental concept then you truly are lost. The old musclehead adage of &quot;there is no replacement for displacement&quot; still holds true today)

Rob


As someone so eloquently once once put it:
Nyeah Nyeah Nyeah...

[Cheater240SX]

You can make power in two ways: more torque or spin it faster. &nbsp;The equation works out like this

hp = rpm* torque (ft-lbs) / 5252

I believe the KA is a &quot;truck motor&quot; in the classic sense because of its long, 96mm stroke which gives its under-bore, low end torque characteristics.

My favorite four-cylinder? &nbsp;Ford's 2.3L they made forever. &nbsp;DON'T LAUGH! &nbsp;This engine had a huge over-bore so you could install monster big valves. &nbsp;I still think FoMoCo should make a 4-valve head for this thing. &nbsp;Racers rev this engine to 8000 rpm all day long, and they don't even modify them that much...