Lets talk Struts and Shocks!

['90RPS13]

So I am wanting to build my own coils. Reason being, so that I can have the ultimate tuning/adjustability. I will be using Ground Control Coil Sleeves and ERS Springs. But I have a few questions:

1. What Strut/Shock combo should I use? I have heard countless positive statements towards Koni Yellow's. But I would like to hear some other opinions from people who have used GC Coils on other brands.

2. Car is going to be strictly tracked towards Drift/Auto-X. What spring rates would you use? I am using Eibach ERS Race Springs.

3. What all is required to mount GC Sleeves to Shocks/Struts?

4. What will give me a 2-3" drop?

Pretty much, what would be a good/solid setup. Its not that I can afford a coil system, its I want to be able to match my setup and match it perfect for my car. So comments like, " Just Buy a Coilover from Tein, blah, blah, blah" ARE NOT NEEDED. Stay the hell out of my thread.

[McRussellPants]

You know.

Tein/KTS/Stance is probably smarter than someone that doesn't know why shocks can't replace struts.

just throwin it out there, puttin it on the table, spitballin, ect.

Even Tein has figured out that struts work best inverted and that twin tube is for the birds. wheres koni on that?

but you know, have fun with twin tube, non inverted flexy magoo, single height adjustable ghetto coilovers that are "tuned perfectly" or whatever.

[benefitx]

tokico blues with eibach sportlines , it is what im runnin and the ride is good.

[koshile]

I used to own KYB AGX with RS*R springs... at the softest setting it rode like stock... couldnt even tell the difrence... at teh stiffest. It was very responsive but no where near the performance of Coilovers.

For my purpose... recreational drift and street touring :angel: it was good... need to be stiffer around wide high speed corners.

Along with that i had struts, sways, bushing kit, and pretty wide tires. Good cheap set up for a 1.5" drop

[gotta240]

I have thought about this before...and must admit russelpants is bringing up good points.

The only reason i was thinking about doing so is because of lack of coilovers for GRIP set-ups... Many coilovers are made solely for drifting...Although great coilovers, they aren't soft enough to articulate on a track/grip car...

Other opinions on above statement/generalities?

[McRussellPants]

Japan coilovers will feel "softer" than USA coilovers.


Japan generally has weaker dampening than what most usa drivers/tuners/whatever put in ther shocks but compensate with more spring.

I geuss they get away with it because their tracks/roads are smoother.

Spring rate should match tire size/weight of the car/blah blah blah, I'd probably consider 8/6 just right, if not a little too soft for a huge tired track car unless it had pretty big roll bars.

you'll notice most cars on 8/6 without bars on even 245.40s RA1s doing the body roll mamba on the track.

[sr20det4mys13]

tokico blues with eibach sportlines , it is what im runnin and the ride is good.

yeah tokico blues are good.. and as for springs.. sportline is the only one i know that will give u froma 2 to 3 inch drop most other springs will be 1.3 to 1.8 drop.. the the blues are good.. latah

['90RPS13]

Amazing how all of the reviews have nothing to do with a GC coilover conversion.

Dont get me wrong, I appreciate the help, but I am not interested in Spring/Strut Combo. I am pondering GC sleeve conversion. I have read positives of this setup and negative and I just want to have any points I may have missed brought to my attention.

+1 for McRussell, Thanks for the input!

[r-b-x]

koni + gc coilover + your choice of coilover springs = done.
tell koni to custom valve it for your application and spring rate and make the rears externally adjustable, and you'll probably spend more than a coilover kit. don't like using koni yellows, then spend more on koni's higher end dampers and have them make it fit your s13.

many people will attest to koni's quality. the only other damper that could probably compare to koni's (and available to s-chassis) is the tokico HTS. not too many choices, as coilovers are more popular.

[Mdl_Pin0y]

I think Koni + RS*R Race springs would be good for track in my opinion and also because koni have lifetime warranty :D . I actually have the RS*R springs but no Koni, only blown GR-2's... The springs gave me about 1.5 inch drop though :hs:

[jmauld]

I've ran GCs and Konis before, and now I've moved to a GC/Bilstein setup. I switched to Bilsteins for several reasons. Partially because it's a monotube, inverted front strut. In addition to the fact that I purchased used Bilsteins and had them revalved for what it would've cost to have my Koni's revalved. I did give up adjustability though, which I'm not worried about, since they're valved to my setup.

Read over this page:

http://www.wincom.net/trog/autocross_secrets6.html


McRussellPants, take a look over at Teins page. If they don't list "monotube" in their specs, then it's a twintube. Last time I looked, you had to spend $2500+ to get a monotube Tein. You might also be interested to know that an "inverted front strut" is considered a "shock" by Bilstein.

[PoorMans180SX]

Have you seen the new Stance GR+Three? it's pretty much as adjustable as you can get, remote reservoirs and all. check out their site.

I think I might invest in a set myself...slow but quality is my philosophy, ahhahaha

[DoriftoPnoy]

Did a ground control install in my friend's TC. Personally I think they're wack and a ghetto substitute for real coilovers, but my friend seems to like em. Noticeable stiffness compared to stock.

[OptionZero]

You're trying to re-invent the wheel.

For the time, effort, and cost of developing your own package, you could probably call Apexi, Tanabe, Zeal, wutever and grab an off the shelf coilover and ask for custom rates/additional damping. Any company that offers rebuilds should theoretically be able to do some sort of special work for you without raping you too badly.

[atom]

I know for the higher end zeals like the Function R they are all special order, you get to pick the spring rate and they custom valve the shocks to meet the ordered spring rates. If you wanna do something really cool do something like what ZZYZX does for Evo's and Impreza's that allow you to use the Koni 8611 double adjustables.

SP-Tec also makes front strut casings that allow you to use either the Nismo N1 inserts or AE86 HTS inserts. Dunno what you would do for the rear though.

[punxva]

i'm running Eibach sportlines on AGX's which i DD on the stiffiest settings, and they are perfect for me, but for the price i should have just saved up a couple more hundred and gotten some coilovers, but if you do get shocks and springs, then make sure to also get some upper mounts that are adjustable, like tein and cusco, to have the ability to adjust camber up front

[McRussellPants]

McRussellPants, take a look over at Teins page. If they don't list "monotube" in their specs, then it's a twintube. Last time I looked, you had to spend $2500+ to get a monotube Tein. You might also be interested to know that an "inverted front strut" is considered a "shock" by Bilstein.

Tein Flex mono, Tein is wack so it took them until 2007 to figure out that mono tube inverted is good. They're like 1600$

KTS and stance sell the same thing for 1000$.

Bilstein can ride my dick until it falls off.

[jmauld]

Tein Flex mono, Tein is wack so it took them until 2007 to figure out that mono tube inverted is good. They're like 1600$

KTS and stance sell the same thing for 1000$.

Bilstein can ride my dick until it falls off.

Hey, whatever floats your boat. If you'd rather stick your dick into a quality shock, while running second rate stuff on your car, go for it!

[skate07]

i dont get why everyone hates tein so much,... i guess its the same complex skateboard fans had with tony hawk back in the day... too commercialized and too mainstream to admit that you like it... hawk was sick on a vert ramp, and he was a household name, like tein is to car suspension, so these fucking morons seek out new unheard of brands (just like punks try to seek out bands that sound like rancid, because they dont want to tell anyone that they listen to rancid because people will think that they arent real enough...)

so these kids say, oh i run stance coilovers, fuck tein.... really, aside from spring rates, how are they much different? the color? the label?... and whos to say tein is an inferior product at all?? besides, all those D2/kts/ksport/apex/megan/nex cookie brass are made in the same plant, or at least with the same technology, nothing is new.

i run tein, i love tein, call me a fanboy, but i buy what works..

and you know why i run tein over something priced similarly, less mainstream, and with the same specs????? because if my flex breaks, all i have to do is call phil at tein and its a hassle-free exchange with no worries.


Smooth motherfucking sailing.... but like i said, saying you like "tein" is like like saying "tony hawk" is a great skater. and people fear being looked at as someone who isnt core enough...

so just because i run tein doesnt mean i dont know what else is out there..




word

[bigOdom1]

i have run the ground control and koni yellows on my car for three years now. they have great adjustability in stiffness and ride height. and should also allow from some ruca/tie rod/tension/ whatever floats your boat. ground control can get you a custom setup but if you ask what they reccomend they are a little proud of their knowledge

[jmauld]

and whos to say tein is an inferior product at all??

Read the link I posted previously, all of it.

[cgguy]

4. What will give me a 2-3" drop?


I don't know of a single aftermarket spring available for 240's that will give you that kind of drop....much less a strut that can handle it. If you want that large of a drop you need coilovers.

['90RPS13]

^~~I am converting the struts/shocks to coils.

Bigodom: Pics of your car on it? I would like to see stance. If you had to do it over, coil's or koni's w/ GC's.

[yudalicious]

I've toyed with going revalved Yellows + GCs and talked with Koni and some Koni service centers - between having to hack/saw and insert the fronts to not having rear external adjustability (unless you pay an extra $125-150 to have it converted, at which point you can just get it revalved for basically no extra cost, but then you'd just have revalved rears and OTS fronts) I realized you're just giving yourself more headache, especially since I'm assuming most of us here just do whatever we do as a hobby, not competitively. At the point of having front and rear Yellows revalved/converted to externally adjustable, you're just a few hundred away from the next step up in Koni shocks (the monotube ones), yet another dilema. I think its' widely accepted amongst actual enthusiasts (not your JDM fanboy who hardpark their slammed driftmobiles) that Koni/Bilstein shocks are superior to their JDM counterparts in the same price range, but then again, the complete coilover kits from Tein, KTS, Stance, etc., are much more elegant solutions that suffice for what we do.

Btw, I don't think a stock length Koni+GC will give you the lowering you desire, you'll probably need to shorten them, which is just more $ out of your pockets.

[r-b-x]

for a gc + damper combo, you gotta buy your own camber plates, so that's another extra part and cost you gotta source.

if you know exactly what you want, then all this customization may be the route for you. otherwise, pick an off the shelf solution, bolt on and be done. most coilovers should give you enough to play around with. damping, ride height, camber, and springs, if you fork out for extra sets.

[MudRacer]

I think the RS*R RAce Springs + Koni Inserts is a great idea. Thats what i ended up buying myself.

I currently have KYB GR2's on my s14. And They recently just went out. The rear one took a bath in its own oil. PRetty bad.

One Question i do have is, Can i put the Koni Front Inserts In the KYB GR2's? I cant find a solution to that question anywhere.

[Herd240]

Measure the GR2 cylinder diameter using a caliper. Koni's inserts are made for specific tube diameters (namely, the stock Nissan tube diameter).

You can find all the specs you want at www.koni-na.com

IIRC...the factory S13 strut case diameter is in the 50mm range. However, that is only going off a bad memory. Please, somebody correct me if that number is wrong.

[MudRacer]

Correct you were. I did search on konis and it says the following:
Koni Sport Cartridge
Front Fitment
Housing: Cartridge Insert

Externally Adjustable

Note: Front fitment for models with 50.5mm outer diameter front struts. Twin Tube Low Pressure Gas Externally Adjustable Strut catridge insert Must reuse OE strut housing.

So ill just measure the GR2's and that should be good. My concern was the internal structure and if i would have the same result as the stock: Remove the guts and have an empty cylinder.

Thanks.