Stage 2 cams in KA...wont idle w/o the a.c.???

[CleanKAKouki]

ok, i just put the crower stage 2 cams in my 97 KA. the motor is basically stock otherwise except for a flywheel, exedy clutch and intake/exhaust. before the cams, it would idle bad when cold, but ran fine once it warmed up. now, it idles ok cold, but when its warm, it wont hardly even stay running unless i have my AC compressor on. when i push the clutch in to stop at a light or make a turn, it sometimes shuts off completely. and when im backing off the gas to coast in gear, it'll sometimes buck and look like a just cant drive. could someone offer some suggestions as how to make this right?? i have my theories, but i obviously dont know what im doing, lol. please help!

[orion::S14]

I think the cams are a tooth off...those cams are NOT that aggressive to cause a poor idle.

- Brian

[aznpoopy]

poor idle before cam install :
timing could be off
idle air control valve could be gunked up
idle could be set too low

poor idle after :
cams installed improperly

or a combination of the above

[orion::S14]

...or your IACV took a sh!t, and/or needs cleaning.

Looks more like that, I re-read and noticed you said "before the cams" it was bad already.

Remove the IACV from the back of the intake manifold and clean it with carb cleaner.

- Brian

[ryan hagen]

yah, it sounds like its using the a/c idle up vlave to keep it going, there are 2 idle air valves, one only is used when the a/c turns on.

[CleanKAKouki]

ok, when you mean timing, do you mean the chain being off or the distibutor being off? id like to think we put the chain on right, but it could be that i guess. i know that we check the timing on the distributor with a gun and it was spot on. could it be that i need to advance it a little? what a bout adjustable cam gears, do i need those?

we adjusted that IACV last night (but did not remove to clean), and it seems to have helped a little. it can idle ok on its own without having the AC on most of the time, but not all the time. and it hasnt shut off on me at all since then. but what about it bogging down when i take off and bucking when i back off the gas? i hate the whole parts switching thing, but here are my possibilities:

TPS sensor took a crap
MAF ^^
fuel pressure regulator
or worst case: my flywheel is too light now that the cams have a bigger lobe

lemme know,
dan

[Blackhat]

There are 3 idle controls.

Air Reg. - This is a powered idle valve that helps with cold starts. This is probably what's keeping you idling on your cold start. After the element in the valve heats up this valve closes.

FICD - This is the A/C valve that opens whenever the compressor is on.

AAC - This is the one you seem to be having a problem with. The ECU controls this valve to keep you idling ok. Sound like you'll have to test out the valve (per the FSM) and maybe clean out the IAA (iirc that's what the FSM calls the plate the AAC and FICD mount to).

Most of my knowledge is on the SOHC but I know the DOHC has the same idle controls. Just located a little differently.

[CleanKAKouki]

so you think that the problem is going to be with that valve? you dont think i have a timing or fuel system issue? i have access to a spare TPS sensor, and can pick up a MAF pretty cheap, so i was thinking about trying that out. but you think i should try to fix those valves first?

[aznpoopy]

fixing the idle control valve is real easy
do that shit first

a can of intake cleaner costs $5 and is good maintenance anyway you should be doing anyway

[CleanKAKouki]

ok, wait, just for my own stupidity's sake, am i mixing up my valve names? the one i adjusted last night with minimal success was the one that you get to from the manifold side (right behind the runners) and turn with a phillipshead screwdriver. is that the IACV, or am i way off. reason i ask is cuz ya'll have said to just take it off and clean it, but ive read somewhere else on here that to take it off, you basically have to take the whole manifold off. someone please set me straight, thanks.

[ryan hagen]

the bucking when you let off worries me, did you do any of the supporting mods for stage 2 cams? for stage 2 dont you need springs and retainers for the extra lift?

[aznpoopy]

ok, wait, just for my own stupidity's sake, am i mixing up my valve names? the one i adjusted last night with minimal success was the one that you get to from the manifold side (right behind the runners) and turn with a phillipshead screwdriver. is that the IACV, or am i way off. reason i ask is cuz ya'll have said to just take it off and clean it, but ive read somewhere else on here that to take it off, you basically have to take the whole manifold off. someone please set me straight, thanks.

the iacv on on a de is behind the manifold. perhaps you can get it off without taking off the whole manifold, but i wasn't able to.

you dont need to take it off the clean it though. intake cleaner is designed to be sprayed into the intake while the engine is running. the engine will just burn it off (but don't let it stall). so what you can do is pop off the hose that leads to the iacv, and spray the intake cleaner in there. there's a thread on that method.

voila the power of search
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=96967&highlight=idle+valve+hose

[SilviaSR20DET]

i have a jumpy rpm meaning it dips down to like 500 rpm or lower and then jumps back up to 1000 rpm when using the Defroster which air valve should i clean to make it idle more steadily?

[Blackhat]

ok, wait, just for my own stupidity's sake, am i mixing up my valve names? the one i adjusted last night with minimal success was the one that you get to from the manifold side (right behind the runners) and turn with a phillipshead screwdriver. is that the IACV, or am i way off. reason i ask is cuz ya'll have said to just take it off and clean it, but ive read somewhere else on here that to take it off, you basically have to take the whole manifold off. someone please set me straight, thanks.

I believe what I called the IAA is what everyone calls the IACV. Now, iirc the IAA stands for Idle Air Adjusting Unit and IACV stands for Idle Air Control Valve (someone correct me if I'm wrong on those). The IACV is a generic term for an Idle valve, the IAA is Nissans name for that back plat the AAC (Auxilary Air Control) and FICD (Fast Idle Control Device) connect to. It's also where the idle screw is.

Now, on a SOHC removing the IAA is pretty easy. I have no clue what is entailed with taking it off of the DOHC but I've heard it's a nightmare. If you're just taking it off to clean it you may just want to do the cleaning method with the engine running. Just make sure the car is warmed up and A/C is off before you spray (unless you think the FICD or Air Reg. is dirty).

Hope that helped clear up your terminology questions!

[CleanKAKouki]

yes! thank you Blackhat for your terminology help, and thank you aznpoopy for posting that link. i must just not be a good searcher or something. as it turns out, the adjustment i did was to the idle speed screw. im gonna go try that trick out now, and ill let ya'll know what happens. thanks again

[CleanKAKouki]

finally! that did the trick, thanks alot to everyone who helped out and offered their advice. when i do my full build, i should prolly put new valve on there, but for the time being, ill just throw more cleaner at it if i need to.

thanks again,
Dan

[SilviaSR20DET]

how much time did it take for you to install the cams? im looking to get one for my ka-t setup

[CleanKAKouki]

if everything in around your valvetrain is clean (no sludge), then it shouldnt take more than 2, maybe 3 hours. but its def. a 2 person job though