SR20DET Vs 2002 Celica GTS

[dephrag]

Ok, topic of some debate here with a friend of mine who will be buying a 2002 celica gts, at the same time I'll be putting in a SR20DET redtop engine in my '92 240. The Celica puts up some impressive numbers, 180 Hp, low torque however, the sr seems to have slightly better numbers, but it is a heavier car, and is 10 years old now.. Has anyone in a SR'd 240 taken on a new Celica GTS ?? or how do you think it would do in a straight line??? the 240 will be pretty much otherwise stock other than the SR... Would I be able to take it, or would I need some more upgrades.... and how much effect do you think 10 years has on a red top??

[iggy]

ok.. its fuckin weird you ask this question 'cause my friend who just got his redtop sr20 and my other friend who has a gts just raced last week.  i wasn't there to see them race, but they both said that the 240sx killed the gts. the gts has a cai, exhaust, and no cat.  the 240sx has intake filter and exhaust. and oh yeah they're both very good drivers.

[Nismos14]

the gts can get dogged bye a ka so the sr im assuming would hurt that poor lil baby

[tnord]

i don't think the ka would not romp on the gts unless pretty heavily modified, you're giving up quite a chunk of hp and the gts has a six speed so the gearing is pobably a lil shorter

[my240likenoother]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from tnord on 11:33 pm on Feb. 2, 2002
i don't think the ka would not romp on the gts unless pretty heavily modified, you're giving up quite a chunk of hp and the gts has a six speed so the gearing is pobably a lil shorter</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>


alot shorter i here that the top out at 170 with no limiter a 6 speed should go atleast 200mph

(Edited by my240likenoother at 11:42 pm on Feb. 2, 2002)

[iggy]

yep.. plus it pulls off the line really quick.

[Nismos14]

yeah but a good driver in both cars and the torque in the 240 is good for a jump off the line not romp but i've heard and seen a couple of gts's get romped by ka's with I/E

SR Baby!! The Celica's, Preludes, and the likes are puppies once you get the SR =)

[IceTekGuy]

haha, this is a funny topic, cause my friend just smoked his engiane and tranny in his 2001 celica gts...

thats toyota for you... ohh yea and DEPHRAG, you shouldnt even have to TRY to compare a SR vs. &nbsp;GTS

&lt;h1&gt;SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!&lt;/h1&gt;

[tnord]

gts is faster than a 240 w/ka, i've seen one run at the track (road course, none of this drag race junk), they place the celica a full class above me, i can pull the lap times if you guys don't believe me

[91CRXsiR]

its not in the same class turbo car vs N/A .. a SR vs a celica GT4 . all trac now that would be a interesting match.

AWD 200HP turbo

[Jeff240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from dephrag on 8:39 pm on Feb. 2, 2002
The Celica puts up some impressive numbers, 180 Hp, low torque however, the sr seems to have slightly better numbers, but it is a heavier car, and is 10 years old now.. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Umm, ok. &nbsp;The GTS has 25 more horsepower, and like 30 less ft/lbs of torque than a stock ka. &nbsp;So the KA should win off the line. &nbsp;But then you say a sr20det's numbers are a LITTLE better? &nbsp;205 ft / lbs of torque, and 203 hp. That is about 20 more hp, and 60-70 more ft/lbs of torque. &nbsp;Thats the top of the line gts engine vs. the bottom of the rung JDM engine.
sr20 should roast the gts... if not, theres a problem.
-Jeff

[dephrag]

Ok, but remember the SR engine is 10+ years old here vs a brand spankin new engine! &nbsp;what kinda performance degregation should I be expecting... &nbsp;Like is it really gonna put much close to that original 205 hp and torque still <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

[crazycuban]

alright, the sr will do a 14.4 or 14.5 quarter mile stock, and the gt-s - with someone who knows how to drive it - does 14.6-14.8 stock. &nbsp;the sr should win stock, and with even something as little as an exhaust should rape it. &nbsp;
the ka has no chance against the gt-s unless the driver in the gt-s is horrible.
the problem with the gt-s is actually the gearing. &nbsp;when u shift at redline, which is 7800, the rpms drop to around 5500, and the lift doesn't engage (and the real power doesnt come) until 6000. &nbsp;thats why there's so much variation in 1/4 tests between magazines - when shifting at redline, the gt-s will only make a 15.1 or 15.2. &nbsp;when shifted at the fuel cut, 8200 rpms, it puts u right at 6000 or 6100, and it can be driven to a mid to high 14 sec quarter mile.

[matic 240sx]

lmao my friend brian has a 2001 celica GT with a CAI and catback and a 50 shot of nos... well he smokes GTS all day and night but this is his 2nd motor!! lol.... the SR will slaughter the GTS... &nbsp;not going by stupid fake magizine times for the GTS ive SEEN good drivers run like 15.3s, 15.2s at best in them and thats it... &nbsp;and both of them had a few mods... &nbsp;the SR redtop with a front mount could pull a 14.2 if good driver... &nbsp; just spend another 100 bucks and get a boost controller and get your car in the high 13s... you will make his car look like its sitting still

[Zemus]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from matic 240sx on 4<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>4 am on Feb. 4, 2002
lmao my friend brian has a 2001 celica GT with a CAI and catback and a 50 shot of nos... well he smokes GTS all day and night but this is his 2nd motor!! lol.... the SR will slaughter the GTS... not going by stupid fake magizine times for the GTS ive SEEN good drivers run like 15.3s, 15.2s at best in them and thats it... and both of them had a few mods... the SR redtop with a front mount could pull a 14.2 if good driver... just spend another 100 bucks and get a boost controller and get your car in the high 13s... you will make his car look like its sitting still</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I know a brian who has a celica, do u live in CA??? He has a 2001 gt celica, if it is the same one, that would be WAY weird, brian aka nine

[crazycuban]

wtf??? my name is brian, and i had a celica gt before my 240sx...cept i live in VA.

[whateverjames]

there was some guy in kansas city that had/has a black GTS. blew his motor twice by downshifting from 6th to 2nd on the highway....and he had nitrous...... &nbsp; sorry rev limiter can't help ya there! oh ya i think his name is brian (seriously i don't know). i hear his dad works at a toyota dealer and got him new engines each time

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from whateverjames on 12:30 pm on Feb. 4, 2002
there was some guy in kansas city that had/has a black GTS. blew his motor twice by downshifting from 6th to 2nd on the highway....and he had nitrous...... sorry rev limiter can't help ya there! oh ya i think his name is brian (seriously i don't know). i hear his dad works at a toyota dealer and got him new engines each time</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>


whats with brians and celicaz? and how do these guys blow the motors?? man i always thought toyota made good stuff

[240 2NR]

Rev limiters (fuel cutoff) are no good when you mechanically force your engine to spin to 12k rpms by shifting from 6th to 2nd at 80mph. &nbsp;All a rev limiter can do is limit how fast your right foot can spin the engine by applying more throttle, and then at a given engine speed it stops feeding fuel, revs bouce, then run back up, bounce.... &nbsp;Physically connecting the motor (through clutch and tranny) to the wheels which are turning at 80mph into 2nd gear which redlines at ~50mph will do serious damage to any car.

The celica apparently has a very close gearbox so going from a long legged shifter like the 240 to the celica would feel like a 5-4 shift but would in fact be a 5-2. &nbsp;The celica actually comes with a big ass warning on the visor telling people that the gearbox is tight. &nbsp;I found it funny when the warning was also in the automagic I test drove (no 6speed on the lot at the time). &nbsp;

[Jeff240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from dephrag on 5:17 pm on Feb. 3, 2002
Ok, but remember the SR engine is 10+ years old here vs a brand spankin new engine! what kinda performance degregation should I be expecting... Like is it really gonna put much close to that original 205 hp and torque still <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Well. &nbsp;I'd imagine so, if the shop (unstable-hybrids) dyno tests and compression tests and then gives a warranty on the engine (they promis it works well, or they get u a diff engine.) &nbsp;Besides, from what I hear, over in Japan, the street-worthy tests are so grueling that the car owners just toss the cars and buy an new one in a couple years. &nbsp;So... this leads to 90% of imported engines with less than 40k miles.
Finally, you cant put a &quot;stock&quot; sr motor into a 240sx. &nbsp;You NEED a larger exhaust, a bigger fuel pump, ect.
Therefore, if you get the 203hp, then when it gets in your car, won't it be like 210 at LEAST?!?
-Jeff

[Grant]

yea, its funny thought the shifter actually leans to the right a bit as well. And also that annoying ass beeping thing it does when it goes in reverse!!! wtf? I felt like I was drving a delivery truck or something. (i guess thats to show you're in reverse and not 6th gear??)

(Edited by Grant at 2:29 pm on Feb. 4, 2002)

[Nismos14]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240 2NR on 1<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>3 pm on Feb. 4, 2002
Rev limiters (fuel cutoff) are no good when you mechanically force your engine to spin to 12k rpms by shifting from 6th to 2nd at 80mph. All a rev limiter can do is limit how fast your right foot can spin the engine by applying more throttle, and then at a given engine speed it stops feeding fuel, revs bouce, then run back up, bounce.... Physically connecting the motor (through clutch and tranny) to the wheels which are turning at 80mph into 2nd gear which redlines at ~50mph will do serious damage to any car.

The celica apparently has a very close gearbox so going from a long legged shifter like the 240 to the celica would feel like a 5-4 shift but would in fact be a 5-2. The celica actually comes with a big ass warning on the visor telling people that the gearbox is tight. I found it funny when the warning was also in the automagic I test drove (no 6speed on the lot at the time).
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

was the auto a gt-s?

[whateverjames]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240 2NR on 12<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>3 pm on Feb. 4, 2002
Rev limiters (fuel cutoff) are no good when you mechanically force your engine to spin to 12k rpms by shifting from 6th to 2nd at 80mph. All a rev limiter can do is limit how fast your right foot can spin the engine by applying more throttle, and then at a given engine speed it stops feeding fuel, revs bouce, then run back up, bounce.... Physically connecting the motor (through clutch and tranny) to the wheels which are turning at 80mph into 2nd gear which redlines at ~50mph will do serious damage to any car.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
i sure hope you weren't thinking i was ripping on the celica, just because some guy made a stupid mistake twice. i knew i should have said i wasn't downing it....

[Nismos14]

if toyota was smart they make that thing a RWD even tho it would change the whole dynamic of the car.... imagine that puppy in RWD? dayum

[crazycuban]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Jeff240sx on 2:53 pm on Feb. 4, 2002
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from dephrag on 5:17 pm on Feb. 3, 2002
Ok, but remember the SR engine is 10+ years old here vs a brand spankin new engine! what kinda performance degregation should I be expecting... Like is it really gonna put much close to that original 205 hp and torque still <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Well. I'd imagine so, if the shop (unstable-hybrids) dyno tests and compression tests and then gives a warranty on the engine (they promis it works well, or they get u a diff engine.) Besides, from what I hear, over in Japan, the street-worthy tests are so grueling that the car owners just toss the cars and buy an new one in a couple years. So... this leads to 90% of imported engines with less than 40k miles.
Finally, you cant put a &quot;stock&quot; sr motor into a 240sx. You NEED a larger exhaust, a bigger fuel pump, ect.
Therefore, if you get the 203hp, then when it gets in your car, won't it be like 210 at LEAST?!?
-Jeff
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

no, you don't need a larger exhaust.
<a href="http://www.zilvia.net/forums/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=1&topic=2654&start=0" target='_blank'>http://www.zilvia.net/forums....start=0</a>

[whateverjames]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Nismos14 on 5<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>9 pm on Feb. 4, 2002
if toyota was smart they make that thing a RWD even tho it would change the whole dynamic of the car.... imagine that puppy in RWD? dayum
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
lol that reminds me. when the celica first came out, TRD already had parts available on their website, and for the celica they advertised an exhaust system good for 12 &quot;RWHP&quot;. &nbsp; don't quote me on the exact hp though. i wonder if they ever changed it....

[crazycuban]

hahaha...even if it said 12 fwhp, thats wayyyy too high...

[misnomer]

I could be full of shit (prolly am full of shit, but that's another story), but I do recall hearing from a coupla places that the KA exhaust and SR exhaust are #### similar. A new exhaust is by no means required with an engine swap, but keep in mind with a turbo engine, it wants to push air through faster than the exhaust allows, dropping your performance at the top end a tad.

[crazycuban]

no, not similar. &nbsp;exactly the same.

[kpsilvia]

cuben is right. &nbsp;I have a sr20det in my 96 240 and i am still running stock exhaust. I got a stock down pipe with my engine which lined up exactly with my cat. &nbsp; I didn't need to change anything, well anything for exhaust. &nbsp;I am looking for N1 turbo cat back cause i heard that I will get like 50 rwhp cause i have 3&quot; downpipe, 3&quot;cat, and soon a 3&quot; exhaust... &nbsp;