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bardabe
09-12-2006, 08:27 PM
Ok so this kinda sparked the question in my head when I was reading the gas thread and has been bugging me since then. I;ve been looking into it but havent found the answers and opinions. so the thing is it was stated before that Ethanol is harder to burn (higher octane rating) cheaper and better for well turbo cars right? the down side. it would mess with the rubber seals that come OEM with the car. and the Rubber along the fuel system as well. not to mention I am pretty sure we gotta retune our cars and what not. but like. seriously who would consider switching over to Ethanol? I mean if what it seems is true wouldn;t it be a good cost effect? Better Fuel, Higher Octane rating, Lower Price. I mean sure alot of work will have to be done (redo the fuel system, retune the car, and find Ethanol Stations near by) who would actually consider this or would like to go further into this topic because this seems pretty intresting and it would not be a bad Idea for an alternative Fuel. maby we'll even get something from the state by switching over to Ethanol? (Emissions for cali I hope) who knows. what you all think???

CRZY_AZN
09-12-2006, 08:31 PM
actually i was thinkin about it too. many race cars have converted to methonal fuel. it is a pain to do it but i think in the end it would actually be worth it.

240trainee
09-12-2006, 08:50 PM
I'm going to start looking into it, I am building a new car from the ground up including all new fuel lines and such, I want to find out what I have to use that would be compatable with both ethenol and regular gas, so all I will have to do is change fuel maps when the time comes that I can switch.

bardabe
09-12-2006, 10:45 PM
Yeah I pretty much just wanna run it all the time ha ha well if it's allowed and a better alternative fuel ofcourse. but I can;t seem to find the answers I need

BoLLeH
09-12-2006, 10:52 PM
A lot of these posts lately. Unfortunately, no one knows how to spell out the alcohols correctly. :drool: Isn't there like one ethyl alcohol station in California? I'm just curious.

timtiminy
09-12-2006, 11:07 PM
well considering that ethanol has a significantly lower btu rating than gasoline you would actually have to burn more ethanol to get the same amount of power and even then you will probably still end up with a little less power. That and the cost you would spend converting everything wouldnt be worth the cost that you would saving. the only ethanol that will be redily available will be E85, I dont really dig it. there is however an alternative fuel that will hopefully overtake ethanol which is a direct 100% drop for drop replacement for gasoline, and will be even cheaper than E85....

Doluck
09-13-2006, 08:10 AM
From what I have read E85 is twice the price as 93oct

Silverbullet
09-13-2006, 08:22 PM
Ethanol has a different lambda ratio than the traditional gasoline we use. Most gas stations here in NoVa are 10% ethanol mixtures. Its really not enough to affect your performance unless your pushing crazy power. If this is the case, get a retune and all is well.

shayrgob240
09-13-2006, 10:56 PM
Ethanol has a different lambda ratio than the traditional gasoline we use. Most gas stations here in NoVa are 10% ethanol mixtures. Its really not enough to affect your performance unless your pushing crazy power. If this is the case, get a retune and all is well.

all gas stations have 10% ethanol regardless of whether or not it's posted on the pump

ballr858
09-14-2006, 04:27 AM
my gas station says "may contain ethanol." everytime i pump gas i read the sticker and think to myself, "well does it or doesn't it?"

Silverbullet
09-14-2006, 10:44 AM
LOL fantastic.

jy116
05-03-2007, 12:54 AM
a coworker who broweses the Evo forums said you can smog any engine using ethanol as an alternative fuel motor. That means street legal SR, RB, etc... anyone heard of this? And any progress on finding convertion info? Group homework time... :)

Nachtmensch
05-03-2007, 01:20 AM
a coworker who broweses the Evo forums said you can smog any engine using ethanol as an alternative fuel motor. That means street legal SR, RB, etc... anyone heard of this? And any progress on finding convertion info? Group homework time... :)

E85 burns much cleaner, yes. iirc, it produced less NOx.

PoorMans180SX
05-03-2007, 08:25 AM
stoichiometric of E85 is 9.7:1

Reading the fuel mixture in Lambda an A/F reading of 12:1 on gasoline would be a lambda reading of .82. Use this formula (Lambda X Stoichiometric of fuel used) = AFR, in the case of E85 it would be .82*9.7= 7.95 AFR.

E85 has an octane rating of about 105

E85 also burns CLEANER, but you do use about 15-20% more

Consider this: Rhys Millen's Solstice drift car runs E85
It makes 550hp and 450lb-ft of torque and has a compression ration of 9.7:1, which is HIGHER than stock

You can run E85 if you TUNE your car to run on it. Which is not really a big deal, especially with all the new ECU's coming out with switchable maps on them. I would recommend, however, that you get a fresh fuel pump and fuel filter [or at least confirm they are compatible], and have your gas tank thoroughly flushed and cleaned.

Also, I know of a Ferrari F50 that made a street driven 1200hp on E80.

Personally, I could care less if I get a little worse gas mileage, when I'm helping the environment, our country, AND making more power. Think of it like any other serious mod. There is always a sacrifice.

Here's a pdf (2mb) (http://www.digitaltrading.co.uk/sr20ve/images/altfuel/AlternativeFuelCars2005.pdf) on all the benefits and adjustments you have to make.

MadScientist
05-03-2007, 10:14 AM
I have been interested in doing this conversion as well... I know more people will be also once they see it is possable.

The primary differences from non-FFVs is the elimination of bare magnesium, aluminum, and rubber parts in the fuel system, the use of fuel pumps capable of operating with electrically conductive (ethanol) instead of non-conducting dielectric (gasoline) fuel, specially-coated wear-resistant engine parts, fuel injection control systems having a wider range of pulse widths (for injecting approximately 60% more fuel), the selection of stainless steel fuel lines (sometimes lined with plastic), the selection of stainless steel fuel tanks in place of terne fuel tanks, and, in some cases, the use of acid-neutralizing motor oil. For vehicles with fuel-tank mounted fuel pumps, additional differences to prevent arcing, as well as flame arrestors positioned in the tank's fill pipe, are also sometimes used

Ethanol is also a lubricant and because it has a lower detotnation and higher octane... that means less stress on the engine = higher HP ratings achieved on Stock Block. E85 increases HP in high octane engines, and significatly so in Turbo Engines... if you gain 5% alone on a 400hp SR... thats 420HP... as much as tuners fight for HP gains, this is a simple upgrade that you have already thought about anyway (Fuel Pump/ Lines/ Rail/ etc...)!!

Oh yeah... Earth Day is every Day!!
Engine modification, according to an obscure Environmental Protection Agency memorandum, is a violation of the Clean Air Act. Changing the EPA rules would require congressional action. But we do it everyday, and make movies about it, and push it on 16-25 year olds... sounds like cigeretts!!

I am in the process of collecting Fuel parts for the S14 project car... I will keep you guys posted on upgrades. Currently I have a Tomei/ Nismo Fuel Pump... I'll see what need to be replaced on it, if anything.

Also looking at a company called Flex Tek, they are out of Brazil... you know that country which runs on an ethanol fuel economy (no foreign oil)!!!

Peace
Drew

'90RPS13
05-03-2007, 10:36 AM
Contact Turbo240sxT on here. His name is anthony and he has converted his KA-T to ethanol.

jy116
05-05-2007, 01:25 AM
Contact Turbo240sxT on here. His name is anthony and he has converted his KA-T to ethanol.

WTH!? Thats firkkin awesome! I'm suprised I haven't heard of this sooner! I went to a pretty green school, and California's pretty green... but stil addicted to oil >:( and SUVs :aw:

I'll check if my coworker knows any ppl who got smogged... I'm too lazy search State Bar laws... at this moment at least...

MadScientist
05-05-2007, 09:33 AM
I did a search of Alternative Fuel locations (specifically E-85) in the New Orleans area... NOTHING... the closest is 46 miles away in MS at Stennis Space Center! On top of that its the only location with-in a 100 mile radius of New Orleans!

I have seen Flex-Fuel cars, but if thats the only location, thats just a waist!! Say your car gets 20-MPG, and the gas station is 46 miles away... thats 2.25 gallons to get gas, and 2.25 gallons to get home @ a cost of about $2.50/gallon = $11.25 and a numb ass after driving 92 miles!

Government ---> :fart: <--- New Orleans

Peace
Drew

Jonnie Fraz
05-05-2007, 10:19 AM
Ok this has been a pet project of mine for several years. I will have to search my arcives to find the article, but there is no CARB approved kit for switching to ethanol. They kinda put the kybosh on it because allot of people were switching to some sort of alternative fuel and were getting higher smog readings. As far as doing it there is a kit to switch over and then flip a switch to go get your smog. Here is a link to the site...http://www.thefuelman.com/
I think this is a great idea, unfortunitly until the oil companies find a way to profit from it they will never let it happen, for example E85 being so high priced even though it is only 15% gas.
Good luck and keep us updated if you do it.

DRIFTER-M
05-05-2007, 01:01 PM
Not to rag on ethanol but at this time, it is very impractical for alot of people.
More cons at this time than there is pros.
Pros-
Cheaper, better for the environment, would keep money from ethanol sales domestic.

Cons-
To produce the corn, and transport the ethanol blend for cars, uses tons of fossil fuels. To build the machines, clear the land for corn, etc. it will take fossil fuels. Corn prices will sore. Not a huge amount of stations that supply the ethanol blend at this time.

Myths-
Will reduce our dependence on non-domestic oil.
~Ethanol would only supply 12% of our oil needs if every corn field in America supplied their corn for ethanol fuel use only. The other oil would still come from other places.

Will save money.
~ In reality, corn prices will go up. Less corn will make the demand huge. Importing corn = pricey.


Is it a good idea? Yes, for the environment. Is it practical this point in time? Not so much for the majority of people.

Again, not to rag on the ethanol idea, or the people that want to do it, just wanted to point out some things you may not know before you decide ethanol is the only way to go.

Have a good day :D

eastcoastS14
05-05-2007, 01:35 PM
hmm getting imports, espescially drifters to convert to E85 could actually do something good for the tuning scene for a change. Maybe an ad campaign using imports to show kids how "cool" alternative fuels are?.....just an idea

jy116
05-14-2007, 02:01 PM
Not to rag on ethanol but at this time, it is very impractical for alot of people.
More cons at this time than there is pros.
Pros-
Cheaper, better for the environment, would keep money from ethanol sales domestic.

Cons-
To produce the corn, and transport the ethanol blend for cars, uses tons of fossil fuels. To build the machines, clear the land for corn, etc. it will take fossil fuels. Corn prices will sore. Not a huge amount of stations that supply the ethanol blend at this time.

Myths-
Will reduce our dependence on non-domestic oil.
~Ethanol would only supply 12% of our oil needs if every corn field in America supplied their corn for ethanol fuel use only. The other oil would still come from other places.

Will save money.
~ In reality, corn prices will go up. Less corn will make the demand huge. Importing corn = pricey.


Is it a good idea? Yes, for the environment. Is it practical this point in time? Not so much for the majority of people.

Again, not to rag on the ethanol idea, or the people that want to do it, just wanted to point out some things you may not know before you decide ethanol is the only way to go.

Have a good day :D

Good point on the economic effects, land and resources needed to make corn-based ethanol. This article points to grasses as a multifaceted part of a more viable alternative... but I think the bottom line is that we just need to change our consumer culture to use less energy, and live more sustainably minded. :hsdance:

http://www.greenbiz.com/news/reviews_third.cfm?NewsID=35051

Z U L8R
05-14-2007, 06:42 PM
there's a lot of cars that run alcohol/methanol injection around here. a lot of people use the windshield washer resivoir/or a metal resivoir then plumb it similar to nitrous, basically when you want to turn up the boost here's your "Race gas" on tap. my eclipse gsx is plumbed for alcohol injection, look in the top left
http://a900.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/61/l_fbb07d5ee1708cb68825ec1d033614bb.jpg
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=96052757&albumID=0&imageID=4226734

bamaboy
05-14-2007, 08:13 PM
all gas stations have 10% ethanol regardless of whether or not it's posted on the pump
not true sir, only in epa mandated areas, which include the Chicago area and every other major city.
From what I have read E85 is twice the price as 93oct
E85 is actually significantly cheaper than 93 octane but the trade off is less miles per gallon so there is no savings in emissions or money.
E85 burns much cleaner
yep, about 9% cleaner, but factor in the planting, harvesting, and the production of the ethanol from corn and you are in the hole
Brazil... you know that country which runs on an ethanol fuel economy
Brazil makes their ethanol from sugarcane. Ethanol can be made from almost anything, our government just wants to see it done through corn.

I know that here are a lot of myths about alternative fuels going around so I can see where some people get a hold of some info that is not exactly right. Ethanol will never reduce the burden of our energy costs because of supply and demand, like someone above said. The only alternative fuel that I am glad to see catching on is biodiesel. With the logistics industry directly affecting the cost of everything we consume in America, a cleaner burning, more cost effective product than diesel would make a difference in our economy. This would also take some demand out of the petroleum market and therefor lower the prices by increasing supply.

nousablenames133
05-14-2007, 09:35 PM
This has been mentioned by someone already, but the problem with ethanol is that it has a terrible energy efficiency, and the energy used is mostly petroleum based. While there are other ways to get ethanol, like cellulose breakdown, there aren't any sources that can really be mass produced. Biodiesel for mass production is a lost cause as well. Mass produced biodiesel is some cases hurts the environment more. One example is the rain forest land that is being cut down to make land that can grow oil crops. Biodiesel is great when made from waste veggie oil, like from the local burger joint, but it is not feasible for mass production. Ethanol has about 40% less energy than gasoline does, volumetrically. Most normal gasoline is blended with 15% ethanol, among other things.

Go Nuke!

AWDSR20
05-15-2007, 12:53 AM
my DD is a Mercedes diesel 300D 1978 runs on old cooking oil from my friend’s Chinese food restaurant.

my cost in running it 0$ i just have to filter the oil =)

i got the car for 1K


not everyone likes my car but the money i save on gas i use it for my 240



2cts