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View Full Version : I hate to bring it up again (timing chain).

SnakeKack
09-01-2006, 10:18 PM
In the last two and a half hours I was reading every thread I can find that had to do with timing chain problems.

I just bought a 1993 with almost 183,000 miles on it with a rattling timing chain. I got it for $1300 bucks and I have the money to take it to a shop for a full timing chain job, but if doing a full job is not needed then I want to avoid it because I can really use the money for more important things right now. My old S13 which was also a 93 had alot less miles and rattled worse when I bought that one. I spent $1200 bucks getting it fixed.

The rattle is pretty bad, it is very constant when idling and only "hits" every so often when holding it at 2k rpms and above. Its almost like listening to an egg beater beating agaisn't something. I am TRYING very hard to get my friend to let me borrow his camera to record the noise, not only to help get better helpful opinions, but because I haven't found a video of it online and I think it will help alot of people who are new to 240's to diagnose there problems.

I want to open it up and take out the two upper guides and check the tensioner, but after reading up on things it seems that the chain can stretch, so even if the tensioner is good and I take out the two guides what is going to stop it from bouncing teeth and messing things up? And since the rattle is so bad maybe it has alot more to do with one of the tensioners being bad like maybe the lower one? Which really gets me nervous after reading this post http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=89019&highlight=chain+rattle.

The previous owner seemed to drive it kinda hard and I have no clue how long the rattling has been going on but it certainly hasn't bothered her( previous owner) The water pump is less than 2 years old and the car seems to be in overall good shape besides the timing chain noise.

So besides those 2 questions above I wanted to know from people who just removed there guides and fixed there problem, how bad was the rattle when they did it? How many miles where on there cars before it started happening? And how long did they go before taking action? Also has anyone had bad results from taking the guides off? Does anyone have any advice as to which route I should take?
projectRDM
09-01-2006, 10:21 PM
Remove the guides. Simple.

If the noise persists afterwards, do a chain job yourself for $125 in parts. The lower guide does not create a rattle since it's plastic, if you're hearing that type of noise in the bottom end it's more than likely rod or main bearing knock.
SnakeKack
09-03-2006, 05:56 AM
Well I know there is no noise in the bottom end, so that is fine. But it is possible the lower chain can stretch right?

Also you said to replace the chain for $125, are you refering to just the upper chain?
NIK90s13
09-03-2006, 09:13 AM
Yes it can and will strech(both chains) But it really shouldn't jump timing from streching, it should break instead of jump. Pull the valve cover inspect the round parts of the chain links that are in the middle inbetween the sides of the chains. (That is my best discription) Look for cracks, if the chains are showing cracks then replace it.If that is ok, then pull the guides and run it and see if it rattels.
hipro
09-03-2006, 04:53 PM
First step in my opinion... pull the valve/rocker cover and either remove or confirm the upper guide is gone. If the upper guide is still in place, definitely remove it before it fails and causes catastrophic damage. Once you remove it, replace the valve/rocker cover gasket and put it back in place. Crank it up and hope the rattle is gone.

If it has already been removed, I would then begin the next step of pulling the timing chain cover and looking deeper into the issue. Be warned that replacing the timing chains is a big undertaking... I had rather swap an engine than replace the timing chains, especially with the engine in the chassis. There are lots of items to be removed and the real problem is dealing with the oil pan while in the chassis. Because of the oil pump pickup, you have to substantially raise the engine or drop the front crossmember to get adequate clearance. It probably is easier just to pull the engine, put in on a stand, and do all major maintenance while it is out. Good luck. Mike B. www.hiprollc.com
projectRDM
09-03-2006, 08:39 PM
Well I know there is no noise in the bottom end, so that is fine. But it is possible the lower chain can stretch right?

Also you said to replace the chain for $125, are you refering to just the upper chain?


Full kit, minus the main sprocket.
ms!3
09-03-2006, 09:41 PM
Remove the guides. Simple.

If the noise persists afterwards, do a chain job yourself for $125 in parts. The lower guide does not create a rattle since it's plastic, if you're hearing that type of noise in the bottom end it's more than likely rod or main bearing knock.

the bottom end will rattle if the guides are broken. itll rub against the housing and eventually eat through it and make a hole. and you only remove the top 2 guides. no trying to flame or anything just correcting so nobody else gets confused.
SnakeKack
09-04-2006, 12:37 AM
Where can I get a full kit for that price?

Thanks MS!3 for that info. So far there is no noise from the lower area but it might be hard to tell with all that noise going on from above (its pretty bad lol), I'll just have to wait till I check things out.

Tomorrow I am going to a local junkyard and I am going to practice taking things apart on a car in the yard. I scoped one out a few weeks ago, I might take some interior pieces while I am there lol.
ms!3
09-04-2006, 09:15 PM
i know ams sells a rebuilt kit for the timing chain. its like $300. it comes with everything you need tho. i got lucky and only had to take out the top 2guides and my rattle stopped. sounds so clean. lol.
NoOneIsPerfect
09-06-2006, 08:35 PM
btw, didn't somebody do a write up w/ pics on how to change timing chain on DOHC? I just went through search and couldn't find it for some reason. neone w/ link to the page?
SnakeKack
09-07-2006, 08:30 PM
Ok after alot of searching I have found a video of a KA24DE idling and a rattley timing chain. My car sounds EXACTLY like this. It really is the worst I have ever heard, at least out of all the 240's in my area, that I have heard.

Now after any of you guys hear this that removed your guides, did it sound this bad??
SnakeKack
09-08-2006, 01:09 PM
Oops no link haha. Here is the link to the video. http://acspro.net/pics/noise.mov
SnakeKack
09-09-2006, 04:09 AM
I want to take the guides out and check the tensioners as a temporary fix till I get it all done later. I have the money now but like I said in my other post it is really needed elswhere right now. Its about 6AM right now and I plan on going out to get some materials to start taking it apart but I hope to get some feedback before I do anything.

So if anyone can post there opinions based on the the way it sounds in the video if I can stall for a while with no guides, that'd be great.
Gnnr
09-09-2006, 01:29 PM
I have the guide on how to fix the timing chain rattle. It used to be on garage.projectraine.com, but its no longer on there. I can e-mail it to you if you want. It has the step by step guides with photos. Its 8.64MB big, I saved it as a .doc word format. If someone has webspace, and you can upload it for others to have in the future, let me know.

EDIT: The site is back up, and so are the guides. Here's the link to the writeup.

http://garage.projectraine.com/content_guides/240_chainrattle/chainrattle.pdf
Cutless01
09-09-2006, 01:35 PM
Could you email it to me please? "Bryan Connery *at* gmail.com" (remove spaces etc) if you dont mind...
Gnnr
09-09-2006, 01:43 PM
Sent it to you.
SnakeKack
09-09-2006, 04:58 PM
Thanks Gnnr, but i have a guide how to do it already. I just wanted opinons one which route I should take based upon how bad my timing chain sounds in this video >>>>> http://acspro.net/pics/noise.mov