JIC FLT-A2, Custom Spring Rates? - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

SX_Drifter · 07-06-2003, 05:12 PM

I want to put some JIC FLT-A2 coil overs for my s14. I was thinking about going with custom spring rates on them. I know they are 8k/6k normally but should I raise this up at all?

Thanks

*Dousan_PG* · 07-06-2003, 07:20 PM

why would you need to bump it up? for what purpose??

SX_Drifter · 07-06-2003, 07:24 PM

I like stiff suspension for one. Always it just seems a bit low to me or is it because the car is a FR?

I know Integras run 7k/8k.

*theronin* · 07-06-2003, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dousan36
why would you need to bump it up? for what purpose??

if its for daily driving i agree with aaron! anything over those rates imo would be damn crazy and harsh as h3ll!

*Dousan_PG* · 07-06-2003, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SX_Drifter
I like stiff suspension for one. Always it just seems a bit low to me or is it because the car is a FR?

I know Integras run 7k/8k.

AH DONT F*CKING SAY THAT BECUAE YOU COME OFF AS SUPER NEWBIE!!!

different suspension geometry!

obviously u have no idea what 8/6 feels like. so i suggest leave it alone as it comes!

SX_Drifter · 07-06-2003, 07:28 PM

I am a newbie to this car.

I have no idea how it feels because I've never been in an S14 with these on it. If I had I wouldn't ask.

I was only thinking of bumping it up one k to 9k/7k.

*theronin* · 07-06-2003, 09:06 PM

Just out of curiosity... are you getting an sr and a sylvia conversion? or are you getting an s15 conversion?

SX_Drifter · 07-07-2003, 04:28 AM

No and I won't be doing an SR for quite sometime as I can't afford it so I'm having some fun with the KA and building my suspension and brake set up.

*Dousan_PG* · 07-07-2003, 07:36 AM

good man..good plan

stick w/ the 8/6
jics are pretty stiff.
if yo udont like it then upgrade. if yo ucan, ride in someone's JIC equipped car at a track event or something

no reason to upgrade if

a) you dont know how it feels
b) dont really need it

SX_Drifter · 07-07-2003, 03:57 PM

I've riden in my friend's 92 Civic Sedan. He's running FLT-A2s for a Integra so the rates are 7k/8k. It's stiff. I know the suspension geometry is different.
However he's always saying he should have gone stiffer.

*Dousan_PG* · 07-07-2003, 04:06 PM

serioulsy dont compare the 2 cars..i thought like 12k in civic was like 8k or 6k in s-chasis but im not 100% sure

8k is a pretty rough ride already for MOST people.

SX_Drifter · 07-07-2003, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dousan36
serioulsy dont compare the 2 cars..i thought like 12k in civic was like 8k or 6k in s-chasis but im not 100% sure

8k is a pretty rough ride already for MOST people.

I'm not trying to compare them. Just saying what I've experinced. I'll go with the normal rates. If it's not stiff enough for me then I'll upgrade.

*theronin* · 07-07-2003, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SX_Drifter
I'm not trying to compare them. Just saying what I've experinced. I'll go with the normal rates. If it's not stiff enough for me then I'll upgrade.

Looks like you are on the right track then man!

glad to hear someone is learning their car and suspension before they go throwing gobs of money into the power aspect of it! Congrats man!

SX_Drifter · 07-07-2003, 07:13 PM

theronin:

I've always been a suspension guy. I love a car that can handle. My old car was 92 Civic Hatch (got cut off and into an accident so it's gone now) and I found it amazing that Honda put a nice double wishbone suspension in such a crap car. Even with just a few little things done to it, the handling improvement surprised me.

I can't wait to do something to my S14.

Halz · 07-08-2003, 12:04 AM

Why do you want to stagger the front and rear spring rates, with the JIC coilovers?

019 · 07-08-2003, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halz
Why do you want to stagger the front and rear spring rates, with the JIC coilovers?

i'm not 100% sure, but i always thought that it was because it's a rwd car. with stiffer spring rate up front, you create some understeer, giving the car a more neutral feeling.

feel free to correct me if i'm wrong

SX_Drifter · 07-08-2003, 04:41 AM

019: I believe your correct.
If you look a a fwd spring rates, it's the other way around. To create some over steer.

Steeles · 07-08-2003, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halz
Why do you want to stagger the front and rear spring rates, with the JIC coilovers?

they come like that from the JIC... or Tein.... or Cusco... or Nismo... or Arigosta..... I've yet to see an coilover setup for our cars that DOSENT come staggered...

*note this doesnt mean they dont exist just that I've never seen them*

*LanceS13* · 07-08-2003, 02:26 PM

That staggering has a lot to do with the differing geometries of the front and rear suspensions. Weight distribution and drive wheel position play a factor as well.

Halz · 07-08-2003, 02:44 PM

I know an '89 SE hatchback has linear front and rear spring rates of 112lbs/in (taken from the FSM), and a '93 hatchback has 115lb/in fronts, and something around 130-140lb/in rears (calculated with the FSM, for some reason it doesn't say outright)

So unless something is to be done about the car's balance with aftermarket swaybars, which all look to be very similar diameters, I can't see how the car could reach a very high lateral acceleration. It would be understeering in a steady state turn. Maybe the manufactures assume the car has gobs of power, and when under acceleration, will shift weight over the rear tires, in which case, under that acceleration, the car might feel neutral... until it stops accelerating significantly

*LanceS13* · 07-08-2003, 02:53 PM

If the rear rates are higher (which I don't think is correct), the car would oversteer at steady state, not understeer. Weight transfer to the rear tires from acceleration would also increase grip, not decrease it...so that wouldn't help understeer.

Halz · 07-08-2003, 03:29 PM

For the rear springs, I used:
wire diameter = .417"
coil outside diameter = 3.94"
active coils = 7 (this should actually have been 10 in the inital calcs)
..with a coilspring calculator

Ah.. I just ran the numbers of what was in the '89 FSM through the calculator, and they gave values +/- 1lbs/in. So I messed up with the '93 numbers.

With 10 active coils, the result comes to ~97 in the rear, and ~115 in the front. A very slight bias, front to rear.

DuffMan · 07-09-2003, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halz
I know an '89 SE hatchback has linear front and rear spring rates of 112lbs/in (taken from the FSM), and a '93 hatchback has 115lb/in fronts, and something around 130-140lb/in rears (calculated with the FSM, for some reason it doesn't say outright)

So unless something is to be done about the car's balance with aftermarket swaybars, which all look to be very similar diameters, I can't see how the car could reach a very high lateral acceleration. It would be understeering in a steady state turn. Maybe the manufactures assume the car has gobs of power, and when under acceleration, will shift weight over the rear tires, in which case, under that acceleration, the car might feel neutral... until it stops accelerating significantly

You also have to consider the fact that stiffer springs partially negates the effect of the anti-roll bars because the car doesnt roll as much. The front bar is bigger stock, but now its effect is lessoned, so the higher front spring rate makes up for this.

*LanceS13* · 07-10-2003, 01:40 PM

The springs and sway bars add; they don't negate each other.

07-06-2003, 05:12 PM	#1
SX_Drifter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 25 Posts: 39 Trader Rating: (0)	JIC FLT-A2, Custom Spring Rates? I want to put some JIC FLT-A2 coil overs for my s14. I was thinking about going with custom spring rates on them. I know they are 8k/6k normally but should I raise this up at all? Thanks __________________ Anthony S14 Coupe SHIFT_Inspiration

07-06-2003, 07:20 PM	#2
Dousan_PG Pink GodziRa Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 31 Posts: 16,414 Trader Rating: (14) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG	why would you need to bump it up? for what purpose?? __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

07-06-2003, 07:24 PM	#3
SX_Drifter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 25 Posts: 39 Trader Rating: (0)	I like stiff suspension for one. Always it just seems a bit low to me or is it because the car is a FR? I know Integras run 7k/8k. __________________ Anthony S14 Coupe SHIFT_Inspiration

07-06-2003, 07:28 PM	#6
SX_Drifter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 25 Posts: 39 Trader Rating: (0)	I am a newbie to this car. I have no idea how it feels because I've never been in an S14 with these on it. If I had I wouldn't ask. I was only thinking of bumping it up one k to 9k/7k. __________________ Anthony S14 Coupe SHIFT_Inspiration

07-07-2003, 04:28 AM	#8
SX_Drifter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 25 Posts: 39 Trader Rating: (0)	No and I won't be doing an SR for quite sometime as I can't afford it so I'm having some fun with the KA and building my suspension and brake set up. __________________ Anthony S14 Coupe SHIFT_Inspiration

07-07-2003, 07:36 AM	#9
Dousan_PG Pink GodziRa Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 31 Posts: 16,414 Trader Rating: (14) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG	good man..good plan stick w/ the 8/6 jics are pretty stiff. if yo udont like it then upgrade. if yo ucan, ride in someone's JIC equipped car at a track event or something no reason to upgrade if a) you dont know how it feels b) dont really need it __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

07-07-2003, 03:57 PM	#10
SX_Drifter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 25 Posts: 39 Trader Rating: (0)	I've riden in my friend's 92 Civic Sedan. He's running FLT-A2s for a Integra so the rates are 7k/8k. It's stiff. I know the suspension geometry is different. However he's always saying he should have gone stiffer. __________________ Anthony S14 Coupe SHIFT_Inspiration

07-07-2003, 04:06 PM	#11
Dousan_PG Pink GodziRa Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 31 Posts: 16,414 Trader Rating: (14) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG	serioulsy dont compare the 2 cars..i thought like 12k in civic was like 8k or 6k in s-chasis but im not 100% sure 8k is a pretty rough ride already for MOST people. __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

07-07-2003, 07:13 PM	#14
SX_Drifter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 25 Posts: 39 Trader Rating: (0)	theronin: I've always been a suspension guy. I love a car that can handle. My old car was 92 Civic Hatch (got cut off and into an accident so it's gone now) and I found it amazing that Honda put a nice double wishbone suspension in such a crap car. Even with just a few little things done to it, the handling improvement surprised me. I can't wait to do something to my S14. __________________ Anthony S14 Coupe SHIFT_Inspiration

07-08-2003, 12:04 AM	#15
Halz BANNED Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: bay area Age: 26 Posts: 214 Trader Rating: (0)	Why do you want to stagger the front and rear spring rates, with the JIC coilovers?

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07-08-2003, 04:41 AM	#17
SX_Drifter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 25 Posts: 39 Trader Rating: (0)	019: I believe your correct. If you look a a fwd spring rates, it's the other way around. To create some over steer. __________________ Anthony S14 Coupe SHIFT_Inspiration

07-08-2003, 02:26 PM	#19
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 27 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0)	That staggering has a lot to do with the differing geometries of the front and rear suspensions. Weight distribution and drive wheel position play a factor as well. __________________ 1992 240SX Fastback #47 DSP MS SCCA RX-7 ITS Project FOR SALE

07-08-2003, 02:44 PM	#20
Halz BANNED Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: bay area Age: 26 Posts: 214 Trader Rating: (0)	I know an '89 SE hatchback has linear front and rear spring rates of 112lbs/in (taken from the FSM), and a '93 hatchback has 115lb/in fronts, and something around 130-140lb/in rears (calculated with the FSM, for some reason it doesn't say outright) So unless something is to be done about the car's balance with aftermarket swaybars, which all look to be very similar diameters, I can't see how the car could reach a very high lateral acceleration. It would be understeering in a steady state turn. Maybe the manufactures assume the car has gobs of power, and when under acceleration, will shift weight over the rear tires, in which case, under that acceleration, the car might feel neutral... until it stops accelerating significantly

07-08-2003, 02:53 PM	#21
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 27 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0)	If the rear rates are higher (which I don't think is correct), the car would oversteer at steady state, not understeer. Weight transfer to the rear tires from acceleration would also increase grip, not decrease it...so that wouldn't help understeer. __________________ 1992 240SX Fastback #47 DSP MS SCCA RX-7 ITS Project FOR SALE

07-08-2003, 03:29 PM	#22
Halz BANNED Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: bay area Age: 26 Posts: 214 Trader Rating: (0)	For the rear springs, I used: wire diameter = .417" coil outside diameter = 3.94" active coils = 7 (this should actually have been 10 in the inital calcs) ..with a coilspring calculator Ah.. I just ran the numbers of what was in the '89 FSM through the calculator, and they gave values +/- 1lbs/in. So I messed up with the '93 numbers. With 10 active coils, the result comes to ~97 in the rear, and ~115 in the front. A very slight bias, front to rear.

07-10-2003, 01:40 PM	#24
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 27 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0)	The springs and sway bars add; they don't negate each other. __________________ 1992 240SX Fastback #47 DSP MS SCCA RX-7 ITS Project FOR SALE

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