is ground control suspension worth it? - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

driftfreek · 10-23-2007, 01:58 PM

i heard about ground control suspension and it sounds pretty cool, the problem is that i couldnt find out the springs rates, how stiff could one go with GC? any info...?

DP_Michelle G · 10-23-2007, 02:02 PM

you can go as stiff as you like but tje problem is going to be with what shocks and struts you use

*ManoNegra* · 10-23-2007, 02:02 PM

You can get them with custom spring rates (Eibach). Preferred suspension set-up of most auto-xers alongside quality shocks. What I plan to do in the future for the S14.

MavericStephenc · 10-23-2007, 02:03 PM

I wouldn't do it.

spend the cash and do it right the first time with a nice set of coils. a friend of mine learned the hard way.

vipi0 · 10-23-2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftfreek

i heard about ground control suspension and it sounds pretty cool, the problem is that i couldnt find out the springs rates, how stiff could one go with GC? any info...?

there stuff is ok my dad uses it on his m3 depends largly on the shocks you use with the package

*ManoNegra* · 10-23-2007, 02:09 PM

Well for me after following most of Wiseass' suspension threads and others with road racing and auto-crossing experience as well as having previously had average quality coilovers in all my former 240s, I think it's time to give GC + Koni shocks a try.
I want my S14 to ride like those slammed BMWs I see driving around.

driftfreek · 10-23-2007, 03:48 PM

konis r the best shocks/struts out there huh? but theyre expensive. like 700 bux, plus GC 350 bux, you mind as well get coilovers.right?
the shocks that one could get would be based on your spring rate right? for example u cant get a cheap shock that is not going to hold that much spring rate or else it will blow huh? are konis n kybs or someother brand going to be able to handle such stiffness?

millworkman · 10-23-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftfreek

konis r the best shocks/struts out there huh? but theyre expensive. like 700 bux, plus GC 350 bux, you mind as well get coilovers.right?
the shocks that one could get would be based on your spring rate right? for example u cant get a cheap shock that is not going to hold that much spring rate or else it will blow huh? are konis n kybs or someother brand going to be able to handle such stiffness?

Konis and the like can be revalved to basically whatever your heart desires, so, yes.

bigOdom1 · 10-23-2007, 04:00 PM

ground control has their own reccomendations for each car they have parts for. they also sell custom spring rates that you ask for. i like mine just fine and run them with the yellow koni sports. all to GC specifications.

*Tearlessj* · 10-23-2007, 04:05 PM

You shouldnt say "minus well get coilovers". If anything they are just as good if not better then some coilovers. It a pretty nice set-up.

*firelizard* · 10-23-2007, 04:06 PM

Don't bother.

Might as well just get a coilover system where the damper and spring are matched to work in unison, and made just for your car. It's not like proper coilovers are that much more money than high quality struts and Ground Controls.

It's not that GC is a horrible system, but what's the advantage? Penny pinching ftl.

*fromxtor* · 10-23-2007, 04:20 PM

More like tuned suspension ftw!

PRADOgy · 10-23-2007, 04:21 PM

I think i seen some ground control's for sale at BIG LOTS ^__^

DP_Michelle G · 10-23-2007, 04:25 PM

hit up drift freaq he had some for sale not to long ago

*burnsauto* · 10-23-2007, 04:30 PM

i know a few dsm'ers that swear by them. but then again...dsm guys are just strange, lol

B Love · 10-23-2007, 04:46 PM

Dude just get a good set of coilovers.

DP_Michelle G · 10-23-2007, 04:48 PM

GC's are good if you have the time and know how to set them up

Gnnr · 10-23-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tearlessj

You shouldnt say "minus well get coilovers". If anything they are just as good if not better then some coilovers. It a pretty nice set-up.

Thank you! Someone who knows what they're talking about!

I've had this conversation recently with Wiisass. Pretty much all of these Asian coilovers are just marketing garbage! With GC you have your choice of Koni or Bilstein shocks. I would only pick from those two shocks out of the other options GC offers...I think they offer Sachs too, also top quality stuff. If you don't like the Eibach springs you can put in some Hypercoils. These Asian coilovers never put up any shock dynos, and when they do they're not pretty.

steve shadows · 10-23-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavericStephenc

I wouldn't do it.

spend the cash and do it right the first time with a nice set of coils. a friend of mine learned the hard way.

how the hell did he learn the hardwaY?

GC + Koni is better than anything one piece ive seen.

The only piece from Japan Ive heard have held up to racing over here and

are comprable are Zeal pieces.

You can use KYB in a pinch ands its ok, or Koni Adjustable.

But the real koni with GC is better than JDM stuff (WHICH IS MADE IN TAIWAN)

*drift freaq* · 10-23-2007, 05:52 PM

Man another thread with dumb ass shit spread by people that really don't know.

Steve Shadows hits on the nail head! Any fool that is dissing a Koni GC setup does not know a thing about suspension. The only advantage that JDM coilovers have is they are preassembled. Oh boo hoo you can't take the time to put collars properly on a dope ass set of shocks.
Fact is if you really want a nice setup? Koni's and Ground Controls are fucking sweet and won't cost you anymore than the ok lower budget coilovers. I try out suspensions, for the sake of checking them out. Its why I have a set of Ohlins with Apex springs on one of my cars right now. It also why I am checking out a set of KBees. You know what though? I am building a set of Koni's with Ground Controls because they are the shit plain and simple. Either read up on suspension, or STFU. Especially if your dissing Koni's and Ground controls.

driftfreek · 10-23-2007, 06:04 PM

how much did you guys pay for konis and GC? i just called and they told me thats 1000 bux, tax included? spring rate like 400.

bigOdom1 · 10-23-2007, 06:09 PM

i dont remember what i paid i have had them since 2003

*Tenchuu* · 10-23-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftfreek

konis r the best shocks/struts out there huh? but theyre expensive. like 700 bux, plus GC 350 bux, you mind as well get coilovers.right?
the shocks that one could get would be based on your spring rate right? for example u cant get a cheap shock that is not going to hold that much spring rate or else it will blow huh? are konis n kybs or someother brand going to be able to handle such stiffness?

Quote:

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Man another thread with dumb ass shit spread by people that really don't know.

Steve Shadows hits on the nail head! Any fool that is dissing a Koni GC setup does not know a thing about suspension. The only advantage that JDM coilovers have is they are preassembled. Oh boo hoo you can't take the time to put collars properly on a dope ass set of shocks.
Fact is if you really want a nice setup Koni's and Ground Controls is fucking sweet and won't cost you anymore than the ok lower budget coilovers. I try out suspensions for the sake of checking them out. Its why I have a set of Ohlins with Apex springs on one of my cars right now. It also why I am checking out a set of KBees but you know what? I am building a set of Koni's with Ground Controls because they are the shit plain and simple. Either read up on suspension or STFU if your dissing Koni's and Ground controls.

OK so it looks like someone is almost stealing your name here Dave.
Drift Freaq has lots of experience and is proven knowledgeable over the years.
Drift freek has yet to make a reputation for himself around here.

choose wisely.

steve shadows · 10-23-2007, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftfreek

how much did you guys pay for konis and GC? i just called and they told me thats 1000 bux, tax included? spring rate like 400.

thats abotu right.

but what fron dampers?

run 400 front 300 back for grip on street tires

400 front 350 rear for r comps

400 is highest you can go iirc and still have 2-2.5 inches of lowering ability with the sleeves.

*AceInHole* · 10-23-2007, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve shadows

400 is highest you can go iirc and still have 2-2.5 inches of lowering ability with the sleeves.

LIES!

I have 450's on my rears. Fronts probably could handle a bit more, but I'm on 8611's now

I wonder what the DSG car uses? He had off-the-shelf yellows in back last I knew.

In the end: Koni Yellow + GC will outhandle pretty much every JDM coilover out there, and 100% of the pseudo JDM stuff.

*drift freaq* · 10-23-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve shadows

thats abotu right.

but what fron dampers?

run 400 front 300 back for grip on street tires

400 front 350 rear for r comps

400 is highest you can go iirc and still have 2-2.5 inches of lowering ability with the sleeves.

Ya steve but the imposter wants to think 400lbs is weak when actually its right around 8kg and 300lb is close to 6kg. i.e. same as most coilover setups people run.

Jefferson · 10-23-2007, 09:12 PM

You can definatley go over 400 my buddy just bought a GC/Koni setup for his E30 and GC had some springs for that chassis that were up to 800 lb/in

Wiisass · 10-23-2007, 11:44 PM

Spring rate and how stiff you can go on a given shock depends on the shock valving. So a Koni yellow for the s13 may be valved differently than one for the s14 and the valving of the shock and the weight of the car and some other factors determines what spring rate you can run and what damping ratio you will end up with. Damping ratio is the normalized way of looking at how the car will settle after an input and how the damper will absorb the spring energy.

And you guys should keep in mind that ground control isn't your only option. Unless I'm wrong, ground control just sells sleeves, perches and springs, which you can get many other places. Of course you have to get the right diameter sleeve for whatever shock you're going to run. Koni makes sleeves for their shocks, Bilstein does as well and there are tons of circle track places that sell sleeves that would probably fit a lot of these dampers. I'm not say that I'm positive that a random spring sleeve you find somewhere is going to fit whatever shock you want to use, but there will be a lot out there that will wor for what you want it to do. I don't have any problems with ground control, I just wanted to point that out because it seems like people think it's something different than just a "coilover kit" with an eibach spring. But I do like hypercoils better than eibach just from personal experience and from feedback from other people.

As for a coilover being matched with spring rate and valving. Everyone likes to forget that mass has a lot to do with what valving is needed for a given spring rate on a given car. So a 2400lb car will need different valving than a 3000lb car with the same springs. And from what I've seen a lot of the JDM stuff isn't valved that great to start.

But back to the Koni's, to know what spring rates you would want to run, you really need to get a dyno plot. Or at least call Koni and talk to someone in their motorsports department. They should be able to give you an idea of what you want to run. And if you want to run something out of the range, there is always the option of sending them out to get revalved. This does add to the cost, but in the end you will have a better suspension setup than you could've bought off the shelf.

Tim

steve shadows · 10-23-2007, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

You can definatley go over 400 my buddy just bought a GC/Koni setup for his E30 and GC had some springs for that chassis that were up to 800 lb/in

smacks forehead

I know you can go to like bazillion (800 or iirc even higher)

OK GUYS!!!

you too aceinhole!!!

not lies lies!

but what GC told me is that for the KYB shock or the direct bolt on adjustable Koni shocks the spring is actually phsycially longer if you go over 400 or 450 I cant remeber right now.

Im pissed off if the guy was confused and just jacekd me off like that

either way I only wanted 6 R 8 F, so 400 F 325 R is fine for now.

*racepar1* · 10-23-2007, 11:53 PM

DO NOT get ground control coil over sleeves! The 240s don't have enough suspension travel to stick a threaded sleeve in there, you WILL bottom out. Invest in a set of coilovers, even megan's will be significantly better than the cheap ground control crap.

10-23-2007, 01:58 PM	#1
driftfreek Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: oc Posts: 33 Trader Rating: (0)	is ground control suspension worth it? i heard about ground control suspension and it sounds pretty cool, the problem is that i couldnt find out the springs rates, how stiff could one go with GC? any info...?

10-23-2007, 02:02 PM	#2
DP_Michelle G Zilvia Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Anaheim/OC Age: 26 Posts: 666 Trader Rating: (0)	you can go as stiff as you like but tje problem is going to be with what shocks and struts you use __________________ BC RACING COILOVER REVIEW http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=139618

10-23-2007, 02:02 PM	#3
ManoNegra Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: SoCali Posts: 4,711 Trader Rating: (27)	You can get them with custom spring rates (Eibach). Preferred suspension set-up of most auto-xers alongside quality shocks. What I plan to do in the future for the S14. __________________ S-Chassis/Z32 Rear Upright Spherical Bearing Group Buy

10-23-2007, 02:03 PM	#4
MavericStephenc Zilvia Addict Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: salem mass. Age: 21 Posts: 681 Trader Rating: (0)	I wouldn't do it. spend the cash and do it right the first time with a nice set of coils. a friend of mine learned the hard way. __________________ That kind of attitude is SHIT. People with that kind of complacent outlook on law and government are the bane of this country's existence. -Thesquidd http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...c4a42a4332.gif Boycott Berkeley and code pink

10-23-2007, 02:09 PM	#6
ManoNegra Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: SoCali Posts: 4,711 Trader Rating: (27)	Well for me after following most of Wiseass' suspension threads and others with road racing and auto-crossing experience as well as having previously had average quality coilovers in all my former 240s, I think it's time to give GC + Koni shocks a try. I want my S14 to ride like those slammed BMWs I see driving around. __________________ S-Chassis/Z32 Rear Upright Spherical Bearing Group Buy

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10-23-2007, 03:48 PM	#7
driftfreek Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: oc Posts: 33 Trader Rating: (0)	konis r the best shocks/struts out there huh? but theyre expensive. like 700 bux, plus GC 350 bux, you mind as well get coilovers.right? the shocks that one could get would be based on your spring rate right? for example u cant get a cheap shock that is not going to hold that much spring rate or else it will blow huh? are konis n kybs or someother brand going to be able to handle such stiffness?

10-23-2007, 04:00 PM	#9
bigOdom1 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Auburn/Birmingham AL Age: 26 Posts: 1,801 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: bigOdom1	ground control has their own reccomendations for each car they have parts for. they also sell custom spring rates that you ask for. i like mine just fine and run them with the yellow koni sports. all to GC specifications. __________________ my car domain that good review thread

10-23-2007, 04:05 PM	#10
Tearlessj Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Memphis Age: 18 Posts: 1,286 Trader Rating: (1)	You shouldnt say "minus well get coilovers". If anything they are just as good if not better then some coilovers. It a pretty nice set-up. __________________ Nagasaki Motors Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

10-23-2007, 04:06 PM	#11
firelizard Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Age: 21 Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: firelizard	Don't bother. Might as well just get a coilover system where the damper and spring are matched to work in unison, and made just for your car. It's not like proper coilovers are that much more money than high quality struts and Ground Controls. It's not that GC is a horrible system, but what's the advantage? Penny pinching ftl. __________________ 1998 Mazda 323 Protege SE \| 1991 240SX SE \| 1994 Lexus LS400

10-23-2007, 04:20 PM	#12
fromxtor BBB Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NC Age: 29 Posts: 2,950 Trader Rating: (21)	More like tuned suspension ftw! __________________ Seller feedback>>http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.p...light=fromxtor

10-23-2007, 04:21 PM	#13
PRADOgy Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Felony Flats Age: 23 Posts: 1,003 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: PRADOgy	I think i seen some ground control's for sale at BIG LOTS ^__^

10-23-2007, 04:25 PM	#14
DP_Michelle G Zilvia Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Anaheim/OC Age: 26 Posts: 666 Trader Rating: (0)	hit up drift freaq he had some for sale not to long ago __________________ BC RACING COILOVER REVIEW http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=139618

10-23-2007, 04:30 PM	#15
burnsauto Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NY Age: 23 Posts: 2,698 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: burnsauto	i know a few dsm'ers that swear by them. but then again...dsm guys are just strange, lol __________________ Support Innovation. WTB: ARC titanium spark plug cover for S13SR!!!!!!!

10-23-2007, 04:46 PM	#16
B Love Zilvia Addict Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: California Posts: 844 Trader Rating: (0)	Dude just get a good set of coilovers.

10-23-2007, 04:48 PM	#17
DP_Michelle G Zilvia Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Anaheim/OC Age: 26 Posts: 666 Trader Rating: (0)	GC's are good if you have the time and know how to set them up __________________ BC RACING COILOVER REVIEW http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=139618

10-23-2007, 05:52 PM	#20
drift freaq Hey, that's my Passport, Aya ! Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Hollywoooood! Posts: 12,323 Trader Rating: (70) Rides Gallery: drift freaq	Man another thread with dumb ass shit spread by people that really don't know. Steve Shadows hits on the nail head! Any fool that is dissing a Koni GC setup does not know a thing about suspension. The only advantage that JDM coilovers have is they are preassembled. Oh boo hoo you can't take the time to put collars properly on a dope ass set of shocks. Fact is if you really want a nice setup? Koni's and Ground Controls are fucking sweet and won't cost you anymore than the ok lower budget coilovers. I try out suspensions, for the sake of checking them out. Its why I have a set of Ohlins with Apex springs on one of my cars right now. It also why I am checking out a set of KBees. You know what though? I am building a set of Koni's with Ground Controls because they are the shit plain and simple. Either read up on suspension, or STFU. Especially if your dissing Koni's and Ground controls. __________________ 1991 Azzurro California Metallic S13.5 VQ35HR project in the works! 1993.5 INFINITI G20 86k Current Daily(Gas Saver) FS:http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/27547...ne-mounts.html Last edited by drift freaq; 07-10-2008 at 10:34 PM.

10-23-2007, 06:04 PM	#21
driftfreek Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: oc Posts: 33 Trader Rating: (0)	how much did you guys pay for konis and GC? i just called and they told me thats 1000 bux, tax included? spring rate like 400.

10-23-2007, 06:09 PM	#22
bigOdom1 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Auburn/Birmingham AL Age: 26 Posts: 1,801 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: bigOdom1	i dont remember what i paid i have had them since 2003 __________________ my car domain that good review thread

10-23-2007, 09:12 PM	#27
Jefferson Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 394 Trader Rating: (0)	You can definatley go over 400 my buddy just bought a GC/Koni setup for his E30 and GC had some springs for that chassis that were up to 800 lb/in

10-23-2007, 11:44 PM	#28
Wiisass Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Philly Posts: 486 Trader Rating: (0)	Spring rate and how stiff you can go on a given shock depends on the shock valving. So a Koni yellow for the s13 may be valved differently than one for the s14 and the valving of the shock and the weight of the car and some other factors determines what spring rate you can run and what damping ratio you will end up with. Damping ratio is the normalized way of looking at how the car will settle after an input and how the damper will absorb the spring energy. And you guys should keep in mind that ground control isn't your only option. Unless I'm wrong, ground control just sells sleeves, perches and springs, which you can get many other places. Of course you have to get the right diameter sleeve for whatever shock you're going to run. Koni makes sleeves for their shocks, Bilstein does as well and there are tons of circle track places that sell sleeves that would probably fit a lot of these dampers. I'm not say that I'm positive that a random spring sleeve you find somewhere is going to fit whatever shock you want to use, but there will be a lot out there that will wor for what you want it to do. I don't have any problems with ground control, I just wanted to point that out because it seems like people think it's something different than just a "coilover kit" with an eibach spring. But I do like hypercoils better than eibach just from personal experience and from feedback from other people. As for a coilover being matched with spring rate and valving. Everyone likes to forget that mass has a lot to do with what valving is needed for a given spring rate on a given car. So a 2400lb car will need different valving than a 3000lb car with the same springs. And from what I've seen a lot of the JDM stuff isn't valved that great to start. But back to the Koni's, to know what spring rates you would want to run, you really need to get a dyno plot. Or at least call Koni and talk to someone in their motorsports department. They should be able to give you an idea of what you want to run. And if you want to run something out of the range, there is always the option of sending them out to get revalved. This does add to the cost, but in the end you will have a better suspension setup than you could've bought off the shelf. Tim __________________ TIP Engineering R/T Tuning Drift and RWD Sport DriftAssNation

10-23-2007, 11:53 PM	#30
racepar1 can't knock the hustle Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: reseda, CA Age: 26 Posts: 4,520 Trader Rating: (36) Rides Gallery: racepar1	DO NOT get ground control coil over sleeves! The 240s don't have enough suspension travel to stick a threaded sleeve in there, you WILL bottom out. Invest in a set of coilovers, even megan's will be significantly better than the cheap ground control crap.

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