is ground control suspension worth it? - Page 11 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

turtl631 · 08-12-2008, 02:12 PM

The nice thing about sleeve type coilovers is that you can use any 2.5" ID springs you can find, and they're pretty common in the US. The dampers are also pretty readily available. It's not like these little JDM mystery companies that come and go as quickly as any other Zilvia trend.

*Xbroke_kidX* · 08-13-2008, 11:55 PM

so iv seen the light after reading this thread and decided to go with a koni yellow/gc setup on my s13. the car is my dd but also weekend warrior so i was thinking maybe like 450 front and 375 rear? the rates confused me so if anyone can help me out it would be much appreciated

luftrofl · 08-14-2008, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CA18_S13

I say get coilovers. It pays off and definitely alot less hassle wanting to get custom spring rates and really expensive shocks.

You're right... for hardparking purposes. Anybody seriously concerned with performance would prefer the hassle of assembly over the burden of having a poor setup.

*AceInHole* · 08-14-2008, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xbroke_kidX

so iv seen the light after reading this thread and decided to go with a koni yellow/gc setup on my s13. the car is my dd but also weekend warrior so i was thinking maybe like 450 front and 375 rear? the rates confused me so if anyone can help me out it would be much appreciated

It depends on a lot of things. To really dial it in, you'll need to know the weight balance of your car, how much power you put down (roughly), and tire size. If you've got a fairly "normal" 240sx (SR swapped, normal "mods"), I'd probably do something like a 450/350# setup (close to 8/6 kg). I'd probably bias more spring up front with more power or more forward weight, though.

shift_drift · 08-14-2008, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlecamslam

I've heard nothing but good things about Koni's. What i would like to hear are the users of this ground control stuff used for drifting. Not just like weekend stuff, but a full out drift car. Like a good review versus the off the shelf coilover stuff that i'm using, i've been wanting some konis for a long time.

Honestly, if I were going to setup a drift car, I'd do it as much like a shifter kart as I could. Slam the bitch, stiffen the hell out of all 4 corners, and bias the roll stiffness overly rear. Make the car ridiculously responsive and just drive it.

luftrofl · 08-14-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shift_drift

Honestly, if I were going to setup a drift car, I'd do it as much like a shifter kart as I could. Slam the bitch, stiffen the hell out of all 4 corners, and bias the roll stiffness overly rear. Make the car ridiculously responsive and just drive it.

Heaven forbid you drive it on anything but smooth glass. Anything else and "responsiveness" will turn into being out of control because the suspension won't be absorbing any bumps.

*Xbroke_kidX* · 08-15-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceInHole

It depends on a lot of things. To really dial it in, you'll need to know the weight balance of your car, how much power you put down (roughly), and tire size. If you've got a fairly "normal" 240sx (SR swapped, normal "mods"), I'd probably do something like a 450/350# setup (close to 8/6 kg). I'd probably bias more spring up front with more power or more forward weight, though.

thanks, my car is completely stock for now. no plans for a new motor till i learn to drive the car with the power it has now. it has stock wheel size too, what about the hight of the spring? dont you need to tell them that info also?

shift_drift · 08-15-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luftrofl

Heaven forbid you drive it on anything but smooth glass. Anything else and "responsiveness" will turn into being out of control because the suspension won't be absorbing any bumps.

If you read his post then you'd know that he said for a serious event car.

koukimatt · 10-19-2008, 03:36 PM

Sorry for the thread necromancy and ridiculously late update.

The Koni + GC setup I put on my S14 has worked great, but I never had the rears installed correctly; they have been squeaking for months. At first I thought the noise was the springs rubbing on the upper seats, and I put some duct tape around the underside of the seats to avoid metal-on-metal contact; that didn't stop the racket. The solution was to rearrange the washers and rubber parts at the top of the shock shaft.

Referring to page RA-17 of the S14 FSM (rear axle chapter), I think component 8 ("plate", the bell or cup shaped part) needs to be discarded. The order we ended up using, from bottom to top:

Top of shock shaft (with a bead welded on to support the washer).
Washer.
Upper rubber bushing.
Original upper spring seat.
Lower rubber bushing (has vertical ribs -- I think it's the cut bump stop).
Washer.
2 nuts locked together.

After I put the assembly back on the car, I wanted to reinstall the hat shaped metal cap and plastic gasket at the top of the shock tower (inside the car) for noise insulation. However, I discovered that the metal cap is meant to be put in place before the shock assembly is installed. I was too lazy to jack up the car again and pull the shocks off so I used a big pair of pliers to bend up one side of the caps to fit.

And... I forgot to take pictures again! Doh...

Anyway, this solved the issue with the squeaking coming from the rears. Driving the car every day is going to be much less annoying!

kalypso123 · 02-25-2009, 05:16 AM

... glad i found this thread.

mattminer · 03-11-2009, 08:36 AM

Hi guys,

I just ordered Standard Koni Yellow inserts for my 240. My car is almost all stock except for my motor/trans swap, exhaust, brakes and lug conversion. Its just a daily driver/fun car.

I think im going to get the ground control kit, and modify the front housings to get some extra travel out of the konis. Does anyone know what the OTS rates on the GCs are? I see that the lengths are 5" / 7". Should I switch to a 6" spring if im going to remove the stock spring perch and weld a new base? Do the GCs come with a metal plate to weld on the stock housing?

Sorry for all the questions, Im no noob but this looked like the right place to ask.

Thanks!
M@

Spoolpigeon · 03-11-2009, 05:00 PM

i used off the shelf konis and GC's, but slightly modified the housings so the shock will sit about 3/4inch lower in the housing. there is a little nipple at the bottom of the koni's that a bolt threads into to hold the shock securely in the housing. you're supposed to drill a hole in the bottom of the housing just big enough for the bolt to go through. i drilled the hole big enough for the whole nipple to come through. then used some washers around it so the bolt would have something to grab onto. this super easy, 5 minute mod will put the shock about 3/4inch lower. that will help reduce the risk of blown shocks if you're gonna run it as low as it will go.

mattminer · 03-12-2009, 07:47 AM

nice, I was going to weld a small collar on the bottom. Thats no big deal.

Do you know what the off the shelf spring rates were, does it come with a metal base for the front?

-M@

*racepar1* · 03-12-2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattminer

nice, I was going to weld a small collar on the bottom. Thats no big deal.

Do you know what the off the shelf spring rates were, does it come with a metal base for the front?

-M@

You can pick your spring rates. "Off the shelf" is anything you want. What exactly do you mean by "metal base"?

mattminer · 03-12-2009, 09:09 AM

Hmm, most of my distributors have this kit in stock. Ive never dealt with ground controls for nissans before. When you order them for a Honda CRX for example, they come with 7" springs, 250 and 350.

When you order them for an STi they come 400/300 7", etc etc.

Also, the ones for the subaru come with a metal ring so that you can knock the perch off the stock housing, slide this new ring on and mount the sleeve on that. It sits on the old factory weld, but we usually reweld it on.

Hope this makes sense.

-Matt

240sxScores · 03-12-2009, 04:05 PM

Yes the GC kit comes with the metal perches you speak of. You should be able to get whatever springs you would like in your kit if you order it from the GC site, if you go through a different dealer they should be able to talk with GC for the specified rates.

mattminer · 03-12-2009, 06:06 PM

ok thanks for the info. i ordered them through one of my distributors, im sure not paying $400 for them haha. if the rates that come in it suck ill swap them out

thanks for the advice!

-M@

n00d13k1ng · 03-12-2009, 09:09 PM

ground control + koni = win

mattminer · 03-13-2009, 08:37 AM

hah thanks for that

my honda runs koni+GC and my scooby runs Koni + custom rate coil spring. Koni FTW indeed!

-M@

Kelly. · 05-11-2009, 01:24 PM

does anyone have a picture of a set of KYB AGX with ground control coilover sleeves installed on them?
i see it says i have to cut something to get the sleeve to sit on the perch right, but i wanted to see how others had done it.
I am wondering how to cut it so everything fits right.

thanks in advance.
kelly

Kelly. · 05-12-2009, 08:15 AM

^^^ bump

Nezahualcoyotl · 05-12-2009, 07:08 PM

i was gonna post these up in the morning but i had to go to work....
i just google searched for kyb agx ground control

http://www.iridiumracing.com/rearshockandbrake.jpg

http://www.teamilluminata.com/Racing/coilovers.jpg

Kelly. · 05-13-2009, 04:03 PM

thanks, but those pictures dont show what part of the strut needs to be cut off, specifically for the nissan 240sx

Nezahualcoyotl · 05-13-2009, 08:56 PM

do you mean where to cut the shock to "gut" it? or the perch on the strut?
I'm searching this anyways cuz I'm interested in using my KYB AGX with the GC sleeves.

its a Mazda but i think its a similar setup... i think

http://www.villacorte.com/miata/gc_coilover/01.html

240sxScores · 05-14-2009, 10:53 AM

I know there was somebody on here that ran a kyb agx setup i just cant remember his s/n. right now.

Its steve shadows.

xs240 · 05-14-2009, 02:42 PM

^he dumped that crap and went with KTS coilovers (best off the shelf budget option unless you want to build some koni yellows or step it up for some koni 8611s).

*racepar1* · 05-14-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly.

does anyone have a picture of a set of KYB AGX with ground control coilover sleeves installed on them?
i see it says i have to cut something to get the sleeve to sit on the perch right, but i wanted to see how others had done it.
I am wondering how to cut it so everything fits right.

thanks in advance.
kelly

You have to cut off the stock lower spring seats on the AGX's. You'll have to be very careful and cool them off regularly.

s13skank · 05-14-2009, 03:03 PM

I wouldnt do it

*racepar1* · 05-14-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s13skank

I wouldnt do it

What exactly wouldn't you do and why? Your post makes no sense.

crescendo · 05-27-2009, 10:11 AM

So, what are the proper Koni part numbers for the S13 and S14 chassis?

8611's
8610's

10-19-2008, 03:36 PM	#309
koukimatt Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas Posts: 33 Trader Rating: (0)	Update Sorry for the thread necromancy and ridiculously late update. The Koni + GC setup I put on my S14 has worked great, but I never had the rears installed correctly; they have been squeaking for months. At first I thought the noise was the springs rubbing on the upper seats, and I put some duct tape around the underside of the seats to avoid metal-on-metal contact; that didn't stop the racket. The solution was to rearrange the washers and rubber parts at the top of the shock shaft. Referring to page RA-17 of the S14 FSM (rear axle chapter), I think component 8 ("plate", the bell or cup shaped part) needs to be discarded. The order we ended up using, from bottom to top: Top of shock shaft (with a bead welded on to support the washer). Washer. Upper rubber bushing. Original upper spring seat. Lower rubber bushing (has vertical ribs -- I think it's the cut bump stop). Washer. 2 nuts locked together. After I put the assembly back on the car, I wanted to reinstall the hat shaped metal cap and plastic gasket at the top of the shock tower (inside the car) for noise insulation. However, I discovered that the metal cap is meant to be put in place before the shock assembly is installed. I was too lazy to jack up the car again and pull the shocks off so I used a big pair of pliers to bend up one side of the caps to fit. And... I forgot to take pictures again! Doh... Anyway, this solved the issue with the squeaking coming from the rears. Driving the car every day is going to be much less annoying!

02-25-2009, 05:16 AM	#310
kalypso123 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Flushing, Queens Posts: 830 Trader Rating: (0)	... glad i found this thread. __________________

03-11-2009, 05:00 PM	#312
Spoolpigeon Leaky Injector Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: e-town, KY Age: 28 Posts: 96 Trader Rating: (0)	i used off the shelf konis and GC's, but slightly modified the housings so the shock will sit about 3/4inch lower in the housing. there is a little nipple at the bottom of the koni's that a bolt threads into to hold the shock securely in the housing. you're supposed to drill a hole in the bottom of the housing just big enough for the bolt to go through. i drilled the hole big enough for the whole nipple to come through. then used some washers around it so the bolt would have something to grab onto. this super easy, 5 minute mod will put the shock about 3/4inch lower. that will help reduce the risk of blown shocks if you're gonna run it as low as it will go. __________________ Steve-O

03-12-2009, 06:06 PM	#317
mattminer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Narragansett, RI Age: 28 Posts: 6 Trader Rating: (0)	ok thanks for the info. i ordered them through one of my distributors, im sure not paying $400 for them haha. if the rates that come in it suck ill swap them out thanks for the advice! -M@ Last edited by mattminer; 03-12-2009 at 06:07 PM. Reason: poor spelling

05-11-2009, 01:24 PM	#320
Kelly. Leaky Injector Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 67 Trader Rating: (0)	does anyone have a picture of a set of KYB AGX with ground control coilover sleeves installed on them? i see it says i have to cut something to get the sleeve to sit on the perch right, but i wanted to see how others had done it. I am wondering how to cut it so everything fits right. thanks in advance. kelly __________________ 96 240sx - 408 cubic inch LSx - 6 speed - drag radials - nitrous Last edited by Kelly.; 05-11-2009 at 02:09 PM.

08-12-2008, 02:12 PM	#301
turtl631 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 710 Trader Rating: (1)	The nice thing about sleeve type coilovers is that you can use any 2.5" ID springs you can find, and they're pretty common in the US. The dampers are also pretty readily available. It's not like these little JDM mystery companies that come and go as quickly as any other Zilvia trend.

08-13-2008, 11:55 PM	#302
Xbroke_kidX Forever Young Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: SoCal 714 Posts: 877 Trader Rating: (8)	so iv seen the light after reading this thread and decided to go with a koni yellow/gc setup on my s13. the car is my dd but also weekend warrior so i was thinking maybe like 450 front and 375 rear? the rates confused me so if anyone can help me out it would be much appreciated

03-11-2009, 08:36 AM	#311
mattminer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Narragansett, RI Age: 28 Posts: 6 Trader Rating: (0)	Hi guys, I just ordered Standard Koni Yellow inserts for my 240. My car is almost all stock except for my motor/trans swap, exhaust, brakes and lug conversion. Its just a daily driver/fun car. I think im going to get the ground control kit, and modify the front housings to get some extra travel out of the konis. Does anyone know what the OTS rates on the GCs are? I see that the lengths are 5" / 7". Should I switch to a 6" spring if im going to remove the stock spring perch and weld a new base? Do the GCs come with a metal plate to weld on the stock housing? Sorry for all the questions, Im no noob but this looked like the right place to ask. Thanks! M@

03-12-2009, 07:47 AM	#313
mattminer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Narragansett, RI Age: 28 Posts: 6 Trader Rating: (0)	nice, I was going to weld a small collar on the bottom. Thats no big deal. Do you know what the off the shelf spring rates were, does it come with a metal base for the front? -M@

03-12-2009, 09:09 AM	#315
mattminer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Narragansett, RI Age: 28 Posts: 6 Trader Rating: (0)	Hmm, most of my distributors have this kit in stock. Ive never dealt with ground controls for nissans before. When you order them for a Honda CRX for example, they come with 7" springs, 250 and 350. When you order them for an STi they come 400/300 7", etc etc. Also, the ones for the subaru come with a metal ring so that you can knock the perch off the stock housing, slide this new ring on and mount the sleeve on that. It sits on the old factory weld, but we usually reweld it on. Hope this makes sense. -Matt

03-12-2009, 04:05 PM	#316
240sxScores Zilvia Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: New River, NC Age: 23 Posts: 209 Trader Rating: (0)	Yes the GC kit comes with the metal perches you speak of. You should be able to get whatever springs you would like in your kit if you order it from the GC site, if you go through a different dealer they should be able to talk with GC for the specified rates.

03-12-2009, 09:09 PM	#318
n00d13k1ng Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: norcal.bay area Posts: 16 Trader Rating: (0)	ground control + koni = win

03-13-2009, 08:37 AM	#319
mattminer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Narragansett, RI Age: 28 Posts: 6 Trader Rating: (0)	hah thanks for that my honda runs koni+GC and my scooby runs Koni + custom rate coil spring. Koni FTW indeed! -M@

05-12-2009, 08:15 AM	#321
Kelly. Leaky Injector Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 67 Trader Rating: (0)	^^^ bump __________________ 96 240sx - 408 cubic inch LSx - 6 speed - drag radials - nitrous

05-12-2009, 07:08 PM	#322
Nezahualcoyotl Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Santa Ana, California Age: 22 Posts: 385 Trader Rating: (10)	i was gonna post these up in the morning but i had to go to work.... i just google searched for kyb agx ground control http://www.iridiumracing.com/rearshockandbrake.jpg http://www.teamilluminata.com/Racing/coilovers.jpg

05-13-2009, 04:03 PM	#323
Kelly. Leaky Injector Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 67 Trader Rating: (0)	thanks, but those pictures dont show what part of the strut needs to be cut off, specifically for the nissan 240sx __________________ 96 240sx - 408 cubic inch LSx - 6 speed - drag radials - nitrous

05-13-2009, 08:56 PM	#324
Nezahualcoyotl Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Santa Ana, California Age: 22 Posts: 385 Trader Rating: (10)	do you mean where to cut the shock to "gut" it? or the perch on the strut? I'm searching this anyways cuz I'm interested in using my KYB AGX with the GC sleeves. its a Mazda but i think its a similar setup... i think http://www.villacorte.com/miata/gc_coilover/01.html Last edited by Nezahualcoyotl; 05-13-2009 at 09:51 PM.

05-14-2009, 10:53 AM	#325
240sxScores Zilvia Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: New River, NC Age: 23 Posts: 209 Trader Rating: (0)	I know there was somebody on here that ran a kyb agx setup i just cant remember his s/n. right now. Its steve shadows.

05-14-2009, 02:42 PM	#326
xs240 BANNED Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: . Posts: 440 Trader Rating: (1)	^he dumped that crap and went with KTS coilovers (best off the shelf budget option unless you want to build some koni yellows or step it up for some koni 8611s).

05-14-2009, 03:03 PM	#328
s13skank Zilvia Junkie Join Date: May 2009 Location: Yuma AZ Age: 21 Posts: 446 Trader Rating: (0)	I wouldnt do it

05-27-2009, 10:11 AM	#330
crescendo Leaky Injector Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: S-A-C Posts: 74 Trader Rating: (0)	So, what are the proper Koni part numbers for the S13 and S14 chassis? 8611's 8610's

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/161773-ground-control-suspension-worth.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date	Hits
hate to be another what suspenion should i get wah wah person but... - SFLDrifters.com	This thread	Refback	07-27-2008 05:22 PM	3