KA20DE: the other KA

[Sean1978]

I have done a bit of searching around about this engine, I even added it to WIKIPEDIA.ORG:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KA24DE

anyway, I was talking a some folks on another board I frequent, I could only find limited info on this engine in engish on the net. I figured I'd start a thread so we could have an open discussion about this engine, and if anyone knows more facts please feel free to add them to my wikipedia entry.

anyway something we where trying to figure out was if this engine had smaller pistons OR, more interestingly, a shorter crankshaft to acheive the smaller 2.0 liter displacement. I don't really live in Japan anymore so I can't do any dat mining with Japanese friends (or the nissan dealership). Anyone got any info on it? It would be pretty cool if it had a shorter crankshaft that could be installed into a 2.4 liter block...

I hope THIS dosent SOMEHOW become a KA vs SR thread

[NemeGuero]

Originally Posted by Sean1978

It would be pretty cool if it had a shorter crankshaft that could be installed into a 2.4 liter block...

why?

[KA24DESOneThree]

I've thought about this and tried researching it and found nothing. The KA20DE is 86x86, which may mean we could run an 89.5x86 in our KAs for 2.2L. This would be a very nice bore-stroke ratio and could mean much in getting NA SR-like response out of a KA.

I mostly want to know journal size, rod length, and wrist pin diameter.

[Sean1978]

why?

I'm pretty sure that it would make a better revving KA engine, imagine KA beefyness with a more SR like rev capacity....

[infinitexsound]

ok well theres an engine in the nissan history called a frankenstein.... which is a z24 bottom end with a 12valve head from a s13... if u guys really want to destroke the 12v is very possible... i dont know too much of the history of the 16valve motors.. but nissan did come out with a z20e motor and even a z22e i assume...... why not take one of those motors bottom end and use it with a 12valve head.... isnt that what you guys really want?

some info i found
The 720 Pickup truck was produced from 1980 to 1985 being replaced in the 1986.5 model year with the D21 Hardbody Pickup truck. The 1980 models had a L20B motor 1981-1983 models had a Nissan Z22 motor 1983.5-1986 models had a Nissan Z motor with a few fuel injected versions at the end of production. The 720 came as regular cab and kingcab models. The kingcab proved very popular. The 720 came as both 2wd and 4wd models and also a mpg model that sported a Nissan Z20 motor and only 250 kg capacity. In various overseas markets the 720 also came in 4 door versions, versions with a J15 motor or SD22 and SD25 diesel motors.

i did a quick search on the ka20de motors and came across some info about it... they are in work trucks...and u can find them in AFRICA.... or where ever else they are...

[infinitexsound]

some more info i found....

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/z-series-engines.htm

it definetly would be nice if we stayed on topic about NA this time honestly with out the ego's and name callin

http://www.nissan.co.za/vehicles_hardbody_specs.asp?n=7
Engine
Type KA20DE
DOHC,16-valve In-line 4
Displacement (L) 1.998
Bore x Stroke (mm) 86.0 x 86.0
Max. Power (kW, PS/rpm) 88,120/5,200
Max. Torque (Nm, kgm/rpm) 171,17.4/2,800
Compression Ratio 9.5:1
Induction EGI(ECCS)

[Prok0]

My post from a few months back off KA-T.org...

Yeah there is such thing as a KA20DE... Came in the Isuzu Como and maybe a few other cars that I havent heard of...

http://www.isuzu.co.jp/product/como/confidence.html

Ah. I guess the KA20DE is also found in the Nissan Caravan..

http://www.nissan.co.jp/CARAVAN/E25/...ar_main01.html

HAHAHA, Dont call the KA a truck motor for nothing... Just found this...
Isuzu ELF100 has a KA20DE

http://www.isuzu.co.jp/product/elf/elf100/engine.html

Damn, the longer I search the more cars I find with the KA20... They seem to put it in a lot of high volume/production cars like vans/trucks and stuff, I bet there are a **** load of them around Japan...
Heres another one I found with the KA20DE and AWD

http://history.nissan.co.jp/RNESSA/N...PEC/grade.html

[sdtouge]

would still have massive piston speed as the rod would have to be even longer now.



edit
therefore its not a rpm machine

[Omarius Maximus]

SDTouge, your comment was rather stupid. Rod length has nothing to do with piston speed. It does effect piston acceleration, but in that sense, a longer rod is always better than a shorter one.

[Sean1978]

Damn, the longer I search the more cars I find with the KA20... They seem to put it in a lot of high volume/production cars like vans/trucks and stuff, I bet there are a **** load of them around Japan...
Heres another one I found with the KA20DE and AWD

I did some looking around on that AWD Nissan Wagon, It's called the R'NESSA (that's a JDM name if I ever heard one) anyway, all of the other spec sites I looked at used a SR20DE or SR20DET for the 2wd models and a KA24DE for the AWD models so I think that may have been a misprint..

here's a R'nessa GT-Turbo:


Grades produced from 1997 (october)
1 B 1835 FF AT G 2.0 SR20DE GF-N30
2 G 2098 FF AT G 2.0 SR20DE GF-N30
3 G 2318 4WD AT G 2.4 KA24DE GF-PNN30
4 X 2360 FF AT G 2.0 SR20DE GF-N30
5 G limited 2368 4WD AT G 2.4 KA24DE GF-PNN30
6 X 2580 4WD AT G 2.4 KA24DE GF-PNN30

Grades produced from 1997 (november)
1 GT turbo 2695 4WD AT G 2.0 SR20DET E-NN30 Add

Grades produced from 2000 (january)
1 B 1882 FF CVT G 2.0 SR20DE GF-N30 Add
2 G 2098 FF CVT G 2.0 SR20DE GF-N30 Add
3 S 2198 FF CVT G 2.0 SR20DE GF-N30 Add
4 G 2318 4WD AT G 2.4 KA24DE GF-PNN30 Add
5 X 2408 FF CVT G 2.0 SR20DE GF-N30 Add
6 S 2418 4WD AT G 2.4 KA24DE GF-PNN30 Add
7 X aero 2498 FF CVT G 2.0 SR20DE GF-N30 Add
8 X 2628 4WD AT G 2.4 KA24DE GF-PNN30 Add
9 GT turbo 2640 4WD AT G 2.0 SR20DET GF-NN30 Add
10 X aero 2718 4WD AT G 2.4 KA24DE GF-PNN30 Add

actually there is an AWD turbo model..

[NemeGuero]

Originally Posted by Sean1978

I'm pretty sure that it would make a better revving KA engine, imagine KA beefyness with a more SR like rev capacity....

decreasing cylinder size will take away from the "beefy-ness"

[infinitexsound]

neme chill out.....im hoping this thread doesnt turn into one with so much hostility

[krustindumm]

It would also be nice if the KA20DE had a fully balanced crankshaft.

L-series cranks should fit in a KA with some work according to this old zilvia thread:
http://www.zilvia.net/f/printthread.php?t=9735

[Sean1978]

decreasing cylinder size will take away from the "beefy-ness"

I wasin't thinking about the displacement when I said beefey, I was talking about the Iron block and the head. I have been impressed by some of the 500+ hp cars on the KA-T site, I really wonder what people could do with that engine if it had a better RPM range. I also wonder if the KA20DE uses the same crank and block it must have some thicker cylinder walls.

[NemeGuero]

Originally Posted by infinitexsound

neme chill out.....im hoping this thread doesnt turn into one with so much hostility

Hostility? I was asking him questions out of curiousity, and a good argument has a response to every comment that is thrown at it. Don't worry, cheif.

Originally Posted by Sean1978

I wasin't thinking about the displacement when I said beefey, I was talking about the Iron block and the head. I have been impressed by some of the 500+ hp cars on the KA-T site, I really wonder what people could do with that engine if it had a better RPM range. I also wonder if the KA20DE uses the same crank and block it must have some thicker cylinder walls.

Ok, gotcha. But won't KA20 cranks be a little hard to come by?

[krustindumm]

next time one of the nigerian scammers emails you about your long lost uncle that just left you $3.5mil, ask if they will get you some part numbers and FSM scans

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by krustindumm

It would also be nice if the KA20DE had a fully balanced crankshaft.

L-series cranks should fit in a KA with some work according to this old zilvia thread:
http://www.zilvia.net/f/printthread.php?t=9735

Here we go again , Ok, putting a L series crank in a KA bottom end would require a lot of work . Not just some work. The destroked KA has actually been done with a Z series crank and again a lot of work. If I recall Rebello racing had experience with that. I had talked to them a long time ago about it. Dave Rebello pretty much indicated to me it was very cost ineffective,i.e. not worth it. On the KA20 tip the KA2O was a diesel engine. Have fun trying to get that crank stateside hahhahahhahha. It was not only in trucks but also heavy duty Nissan forklifts. About the only place that would even have a clue about it, would possibly be a Nissan Forklift sales and repair facility. Not through regular Nissan channels.
Now again though it would give you high revs you would suffer a torque loss due to destroking. You would pretty much have to work other things in the engine to make up for this and make a viable alternative to a SR HP wise. Oh ya by the time you were done doing that it would not be a street legal engine.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by NemeGuero

why?

I think what sean wants to accomplish is a high rev KA using a fullycounterweighed crank and assembly from the L20b( also known as the NAPS-Z 20/22 litre block)

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

I've thought about this and tried researching it and found nothing. The KA20DE is 86x86, which may mean we could run an 89.5x86 in our KAs for 2.2L. This would be a very nice bore-stroke ratio and could mean much in getting NA SR-like response out of a KA.

I mostly want to know journal size, rod length, and wrist pin diameter.

You haven't done enough research...PERIOD!

Originally Posted by infinitexsound

ok well theres an engine in the nissan history called a frankenstein.... which is a z24 bottom end with a 12valve head from a s13... if u guys really want to destroke the 12v is very possible... i dont know too much of the history of the 16valve motors.. but nissan did come out with a z20e motor and even a z22e i assume...... why not take one of those motors bottom end and use it with a 12valve head.... isnt that what you guys really want?

some info i found
The 720 Pickup truck was produced from 1980 to 1985 being replaced in the 1986.5 model year with the D21 Hardbody Pickup truck. The 1980 models had a L20B motor 1981-1983 models had a Nissan Z22 motor 1983.5-1986 models had a Nissan Z motor with a few fuel injected versions at the end of production. The 720 came as regular cab and kingcab models. The kingcab proved very popular. The 720 came as both 2wd and 4wd models and also a mpg model that sported a Nissan Z20 motor and only 250 kg capacity. In various overseas markets the 720 also came in 4 door versions, versions with a J15 motor or SD22 and SD25 diesel motors.

i did a quick search on the ka20de motors and came across some info about it... they are in work trucks...and u can find them in AFRICA.... or where ever else they are...

Your pretty close with your info... Good to know that people research Nissans history a little........

Originally Posted by sdtouge

would still have massive piston speed as the rod would have to be even longer now.



edit
therefore its not a rpm machine

Shows how much you know.....


Heres the knowledge on what I know. Nissan fabbed an engine in the early 80's called the NAPS-Z20 it came in the 720pickup trucks, and the 1981-1983 200sx. The NAPS-Z20 used all the internals of the L20B. Heres the problem....
You can infact use the KAe and de head, but there is a sever problem with swirl to atomize air to fuel from what is called valve shrouding. The way to correct this is to actually use the 2.2 litre block, and use the L20b parts to fabricate the frankenstien at 2.2litre displacement to get rid of valve shrouding. Red line and rev would now be at about 8700RPM. The great thing about NAPSZ/KA is that all transmissions share the same bolt patterns, even the engine blocks share many similarities.
Problem with modifying the KAde head is that it would actually be better to use the the truck head, or altima head. Then a chain assembly would need to get fabricated which Gabe.Z at hybrid KA can make or get the parts for you.
Selecting the NAPS-Z block you will need to get the front sump 200sx block. In 1983 the 200sx came with the 2.2litre version, you cannot use the 2.2litre crank though because it is halfweighted to that of the 2.4 litre engines (slightly smaller in size though).
I actually own a NAPS-z pickup and can confirm that the similarities to these engine blocks are very cose to almost eing identical. Although the KA block uses a few different design features to the bottom end..

Exploded veiw of the napsz engines.

[infinitexsound]

its funny u said that bro, cause theres a nissan forklift shop like 10 min away from me... LOL
but i think the diesel motors are 3.2L

[Sean1978]

On the KA20 tip the KA2O was a diesel engine. Have fun trying to get that crank stateside hahhahahhahha.

I would think one of they Zilvia guys is Japan could get a look at one, I would if I was still over there.

and it's not a desiel, why are you polluting my thread with misinformation and trolling? I'm so tired of pointless argumentitive post on this board. Contribute something or post somewhere else please..


deisel? read here on the nissan.co.za website....
http://www.nissan.co.za/vehicles_hardbody_specs.asp?n=7

Reliable Workhorses Engines: 2.7 litre diesel
2.4 litre 16V petrol fuel injected
2.0 litre 16V petrol fuel injected
3.2 litre diesel - available primarily for export markets

Drive: 2.4 litre 16V available in 4x4 and 4x2
2.0 litre 16V petrol and 2.7 litre diesel models all 4x2
3.2 litre diesel models all 4x4

Other: 2.0 16V models available in long and short wheel bases
2.4 litre 16V petrol and 2.7 litre and 3.2 litre diesels all long wheel bases
2.7 litre and 3.2 litre diesel models also available in Double Cab

[Gnnr]

^Word, its not diesel. I have also recently found out about this engine and I'm very interested in it. It holds a lot of possibility. I think it may be a better base engine to work out of than the KA24DE.

[infinitexsound]

south africa used parts supplier http://www.bonerts.cmh.co.za/

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Sean1978

I would think one of they Zilvia guys is Japan could get a look at one, I would if I was still over there.

and it's not a desiel, why are you polluting my thread with misinformation and trolling? I'm so tired of pointless argumentitive post on this board. Contribute something or post somewhere else please..


deisel? read here on the nissan.co.za website....
http://www.nissan.co.za/vehicles_hardbody_specs.asp?n=7

Reliable Workhorses Engines: 2.7 litre diesel
2.4 litre 16V petrol fuel injected
2.0 litre 16V petrol fuel injected
3.2 litre diesel - available primarily for export markets

Drive: 2.4 litre 16V available in 4x4 and 4x2
2.0 litre 16V petrol and 2.7 litre diesel models all 4x2
3.2 litre diesel models all 4x4

Other: 2.0 16V models available in long and short wheel bases
2.4 litre 16V petrol and 2.7 litre and 3.2 litre diesels all long wheel bases
2.7 litre and 3.2 litre diesel models also available in Double Cab

listen , I am not trolling, your a newbie here you need to watch your place. Also fact is the information I found on the web for it specifically listed it as a diesel forklift engine. Now I have been around here long enough to know when to post stuff that I have found and I am not in the business of posting misinformation, before you start accusing me of that stuff, realize I have contributed a lot of excellent information to this community i.e. faq's!!
Its people like you that make people like me want to leave and not post here ever again. Have some respect for the elders we do actually now quite a bit.

[Sean1978]

listen , I am not trolling, your a newbie here you need to watch your place. Also fact is the information I found on the web for it specifically listed it as a diesel forklift engine.

why don't you show me where it says a KA20 is a Desiel forklift engine so I can add it to wikipedia or possibly a FAQ about the KA20DE. I'm sorry that I'm not "watching my place as a noob"(to posting on this board), I just think it's rude to be laughed at and told something isin't true that I know already.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

You haven't done enough research...PERIOD!

Well, since you are quite obviously the all-knowing KA master of the universe due to your proclivity towards argumentation, please feel free to enlighten me. If you cannot, please sit down and shut up.

The KA20DE is petrol. A quick search of nissan.co.jp proves the point.

Oh, and what the hell is all this non-KADE information? The topic of this thread is in the title. Please stick to it. I don't care about KAE or Z-series or any of that... the purpose is to talk about the KA20DE.

[NemeGuero]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Oh, and what the hell is all this non-KADE information? The topic of this thread is in the title. Please stick to it. I don't care about KAE or Z-series or any of that... the purpose is to talk about the KA20DE.

[infinitexsound]

chill out sean... drift freaq is good people

man seriously u guys can keep cool at all.... everything has to be an insult.. but what ever.. im done with this thread....

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Oh, and what the hell is all this non-KADE information? The topic of this thread is in the title. Please stick to it. I don't care about KAE or Z-series or any of that... the purpose is to talk about the KA20DE.

It is soooo difficult to get your hands on a KA20de engine that you might as well hybrid a NAPSZ. Bore and stroke between the Z20 and KA20 are the same. Might as well bore to 2.1litres or higher to prevent valve shrouding on the much larger dome and valve size of the 2.4 litre head. Waste of time trying to get the KA20 and find someone that will import it for you through customs (it's really alot of trouble getting one of these engines from Africa, Although you might have a better chance getting one of the engines in South America).
So yeah I am sticking to the title..........

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Sean1978

why don't you show me where it says a KA20 is a Desiel forklift engine so I can add it to wikipedia or possibly a FAQ about the KA20DE. I'm sorry that I'm not "watching my place as a noob"(to posting on this board), I just think it's rude to be laughed at and told something isin't true that I know already.

excuse me, I did not laugh at you, if you mistake toothy grins for laughs you need to get out more. So you think you know everything eh? Do a search on the web for KA20 like I did several months ago, when I was researching this for my own interests. It pulled up a site with a page about Nissan forklifts and it listed all the engines and lo and behold there was the KA20 listed. I don't need to help you with your little faq!! Especially when your going to be rude to me, call me a troll and on top of that accuse me of spreading misinformation. What rock did you just crawl out from under!! I guess social graces were lost on you.

[Gnnr]

Why!? Why!? Why!? Why!? Why must Zilvia threads always end up in flamewars and confrontation. We're never gonna get anything done.