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Old 01-25-2012, 05:16 PM   #1
Fred Allen Burge
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Dollar dying, gold rising, US Economy on brink?

I've seen some stuff posted around lately that's got me pretty concerned about the good 'ol US dollar. Countries beginning to buy oil with gold instead of dollars in particular. Apparently any time that begins to happen we invade that country on false pretenses (WMDs?), start a war and take over to keep the dollar strong, ie Iraq and upcoming - Iran?.

What are your thoughts, time to get rid of any cash and convert it into hard assets (gold, silver, guns and other tools) before the dollar tanks and takes our savings account down with it? Are we really on the precipice of a national or global reset?

India abandons US dollar to purchase Iranian oil - YouTube

The Demise of the Petrodollar - Casey Research
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:31 PM   #2
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Ya, We should go ahead and invade.
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:44 PM   #3
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From someone that plays the stock market quite frequently, its people like you that hurt the economy. the fear mongers, that don't know anything.

admin, move to fight club, I gotta pick a fight, lol.
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:55 PM   #4
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we aren't the fucking weimar republic or zimbabwe or some shit. get serious america.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:02 PM   #5
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From someone that plays the stock market quite frequently, its people like you that hurt the economy. the fear mongers, that don't know anything.

admin, move to fight club, I gotta pick a fight, lol.
Call me a fear monger if you like but I'm just an average person and once enough regular folks start picking up on what's happening there'll be no stopping the fall. I'm just an average person connecting some dots here, feel free to endow me with your stock market "playing" wisdom any time.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:12 PM   #6
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And another thing, if this happens are you going to blame all the people who cashed out their dollars for hard assets in a mad gold rush or will you blame the government for their misuse of the currency (going off the gold standard and printing more paper at will)? The answer to that question will tell a lot about where you stand.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:27 PM   #7
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protip: if you don't want the economy to tank, you should probably buy stuff, not trade all your money for gold and then bury it behind your house.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:36 PM   #8
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The economy runs off people spending their money, the more people that don't spend, the worse the economy will get. I've recently began studying the great depression and a factor to the depression was that everyone got scared and withdrew all their money from the banks causing them to close. Also in a recent study when the newspapers print positive things about the economy stocks usually go up more compared to when the news prints about "how bad the economy is" (supposedly). So I think that our economy is majorly based on ourselves, if we don't think it will get better and we start bailing on the dollar, the worse it will actually get.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:54 PM   #9
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kind of hard for lots of people to buy stuff when they're unemployed.
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:03 PM   #10
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kind of hard for lots of people to buy stuff when they're unemployed.
kinda hard for business owners to employ more people when no one is buying...
it can go both ways
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:30 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Fred Allen Burge View Post
...time to get rid of any cash and convert it into hard assets (gold, silver, guns and other tools) before the dollar tanks and takes our savings account down with it?
Sooooooo...

In your scenario where the dollar tanks, why will you feel good owning a shiny chunk of metal?

Guns + ammo will be your new currency.

...

If you'd really like to protect yourself as far as your "worth"...buy some currency from an economy that's more stable.

Wait, the USD is now, and will forever will be THE standard???

Yeah, stick with your cash, US dollars. You'll be fine.

Not a bad idea to diversify, but you've missed the boat on gold. Buying now is for suckers.

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Old 01-25-2012, 10:00 PM   #12
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there is only so much gold to go around when money can be printed. what happens when 1 dictator, country, government, whatever hoards all the gold?
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:02 PM   #13
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US and EU have frozen Iran's assets in Western currencies and put an embargo on Iranian exports, 90% of which are oil. Now Eastern countries such as India will be Iran's main customers, and it would make no sense for them to keep buying Iranian oil in dollars.

I actually hope for an oil shortage in the Western world. Yes, there would be tough years, but throughout history it was always during periods of limitation that humanity was forced to make most progress. Once we stop being addicted to oil, we can finally stop caring about the Middle East. Then, while India and China are still dependent on diminishing supplies of oil, we would already have an alternative.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taniguchi_Is_#1 View Post
protip: if you don't want the economy to tank, you should probably buy stuff, not trade all your money for gold and then bury it behind your house.
Fuck.

This.

This.

This.

You have to spend your fucking money, not hold onto it because you're scared.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:55 PM   #15
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Wow OP you have no idea what you are talking about. You're 31 and actually believing the crap you see on TV and youtube. not to be a dick but what is your educational background? Most of what these "experts" are saying are based on speculation and are not considering what world economies are deeply invested into the success of the American economy.

my tip to you: Sell your 240, buy gold, exit forum.


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The economy runs off people spending their money, the more people that don't spend, the worse the economy will get. I've recently began studying the great depression and a factor to the depression was that everyone got scared and withdrew all their money from the banks causing them to close. Also in a recent study when the newspapers print positive things about the economy stocks usually go up more compared to when the news prints about "how bad the economy is" (supposedly). So I think that our economy is majorly based on ourselves, if we don't think it will get better and we start bailing on the dollar, the worse it will actually get.
kind of.

The biggest problem with the great depression was that everyone was buying on margin. Stocks were doing so well that everyone wanted to buy more so they began purchasing stock on loans and banks jumped in on the action too.

Once stocks began declining everyone pulled out (haha) but some couldnt because they were invested on loans. so everyone just had to watch their money go down the drain.

and 1/3 of stock price is reaction to speculation, 1/3 is assumption of the price, and the last 1/3 is what the value currently is. kind of weird but it is what it is.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:00 PM   #16
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It would take a lot to sink America, especially right now. Everything just sucks and everyone is trying to make it through this shit storm as best as possible. When thing do get better, then everything will right itself. When you start seeing people invading America, then you can get worried. Until then, it is just the up and downs of a global economy that is interlinked with each other. There will always be ups and downs, and there will be big ups followed by big downs.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:11 PM   #17
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there is oil to be found elsewhere (Llike the keystone pipeline), but will we tap into it or let the environmentalist lobby always get their way
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:18 PM   #18
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:22 AM   #19
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there is oil to be found elsewhere (Llike the keystone pipeline), but will we tap into it or let the environmentalist lobby always get their way
The issue with the keystone pipe line a few things. One is that the oil is trapped in sand, which requires a higher degree of processing, which increases the price. Second the pipeline will run to the coast where it would be processed. Next is the fact that the oil would likely then be shipped out of the country because better prices in other country's. The oil itself has a very, very small chance of remaining in the US and since it is not an American Company, they have no reason to keep it in the US. Now, the US lately has also been at a higher exporter of oil recently, which means the oil again wouldn't stay here and head for higher priced markets. Lastly, the oil itself is more corrosive due to the processing and where it is trapped, which means that the pipeline might have more leaks. The pipeline would be located in some environmentally impacted areas as well.

And if you think jobs are a good thing from this. Estimates for jobs are only for two years. Which from a few studies place it at about 10K total, with less than 1k permanent jobs. And the pipe line would probably come from China, due to cheaper costs....
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:48 AM   #20
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Sooooooo...

In your scenario where the dollar tanks, why will you feel good owning a shiny chunk of metal?
Because when a paper currency is devalued enough then the people always use hard assets such as gold and silver to buy what they need, also they barter.

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Not a bad idea to diversify, but you've missed the boat on gold. Buying now is for suckers.

- Brian
Yes gold is more expensive now than in the past but if this happens it will skyrocket.
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:51 AM   #21
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Wow OP you have no idea what you are talking about. You're 31 and actually believing the crap you see on TV and youtube. not to be a dick but what is your educational background? Most of what these "experts" are saying are based on speculation and are not considering what world economies are deeply invested into the success of the American economy.
I have a Bachelors degree but it wasn't in economics! And you?
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:54 AM   #22
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It would take a lot to sink America, especially right now.
Too big to fail? I think I've heard that somewhere before...

I don't want it to happen but I think it's part of the natural cycle of an aggressive country like ours, we've had it too easy for too long, we as a country got lazy and stopped manufacturing for one thing.
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:01 PM   #23
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Too big to fail? I think I've heard that somewhere before...

I don't want it to happen but I think it's part of the natural cycle of an aggressive country like ours, we've had it too easy for too long, we as a country got lazy and stopped manufacturing for one thing.

I never said we are too big to fail. But one hiccup is not going to bring us down. Look at the fall of other large civilizations, they took decades if not centuries to fall apart. Generally, accelerated by foreign troops coming into their country and wrecking shit up. But that was a different time and the economy that we have now, is much more global and interlocked. If we fall, we will no doubt take a few with us. Look at China, they have stalled because we have stalled.

Also, those manufacturing jobs are gone. Jon Stewart made a good point the other night. They can build a city just for building cell phones, pay the people cents on the dollar and hire thousands at a drop of the hat. We can't do that in America anymore. We need to get different types of manufacturing jobs.
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:29 PM   #24
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Wait, the USD is now, and will forever will be THE standard???
I can't tell if this is a statement, sarcastic statement, or a question...

I trade stocks a little bit but am far from a whiz. One big difference from the great depression and today's markets is globalization. It has increased substantially since the times of the past recession. We do have the capabilities to rely on our own continent but must change adapt to that environment. Hopefully the EURO issue's settle and allow for some stability.

It is true though the economy relies on money flowing and people hurt it when they pull out cash and buy gold. But it does do pretty well for us Canucks so feel free to keep buying the precious metals
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:43 PM   #25
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I've seen some stuff posted around lately that's got me pretty concerned about the good 'ol US dollar. Countries beginning to buy oil with gold instead of dollars in particular. Apparently any time that begins to happen we invade that country on false pretenses (WMDs?), start a war and take over to keep the dollar strong, ie Iraq and upcoming - Iran?.

What are your thoughts, time to get rid of any cash and convert it into hard assets (gold, silver, guns and other tools) before the dollar tanks and takes our savings account down with it? Are we really on the precipice of a national or global reset?

India abandons US dollar to purchase Iranian oil - YouTube

The Demise of the Petrodollar - Casey Research
I'm sorry, but do you have any idea what that India report is about? It has nothing to do with the 'value' of the US dollar. It has everything to do with the US and Europe putting sanctions on Iran. Iran can't do anything with US Dollars or Euros now, they are blocked from spending them anywhere or converting them into another currency. So India, which is circumventing the sanctions, is paying in gold.

US dollar has been rising against the Euro due to the sovereign debt issue in Europe.
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Old 01-26-2012, 03:00 PM   #26
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I'm sorry, but do you have any idea what that India report is about? It has nothing to do with the 'value' of the US dollar. It has everything to do with the US and Europe putting sanctions on Iran.
Yes I understand that that report isn't directly about the value of the US dollar. Do you understand that it IS indirectly about the value of the US dollar?

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So India, which is circumventing the sanctions, is paying in gold.
That's the concern here, if India buys oil with gold other countries might also, that's the potential problem. If it were to happen the thinking is there would be a lot more dollars available thus reducing the dollars worth and spiking golds worth making it a bad time to have a lot of US dollars and a great time to have gold. If the dollar goes low enough of course we're screwed, can't print our way out of that problem.
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Old 01-26-2012, 03:33 PM   #27
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There's no way gold will become the de facto currency for the oil trade. Acquiring national bank levels of gold is a pain in the ass. Gold is a highly volatile commodity. You can't pay with gold via a wire transfer, you have to physically ship it, which then makes it a very valuable target for theft.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:34 PM   #28
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let them buy oil from them. america will be ok, they have a lot of oil reserve. when the oil runs out from the middle east, america will be selling oil and that would help the economy
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:11 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Allen Burge View Post
Call me a fear monger if you like but I'm just an average person and once enough regular folks start picking up on what's happening there'll be no stopping the fall. I'm just an average person connecting some dots here, feel free to endow me with your stock market "playing" wisdom any time.
Media+the average person (you) get together, and say 'OMG THINGS ARE BAD', then the people that do have money and know what they are doing, all start to sell.

But its ok, because I've learned from you people. I make money on fear trading now.

I wait until a massive company runs into problems, and fear mongering takes it down to well below its value. Then I buy a lot of share, because when people realize (in this case FORD and GM) are not going anywhere, and I profit 200-400%

Purchased for at $3.80 a few years back, sold at $13..something. GM I was daytrading lots, and made about 10% after all the smoke cleared. ...because I bought into the fear that people like you start.

so everyone, don't listen to thread creators like this. They are 'negative nancy' types. I wouldn't be surprised if he's wearing tin-foil on his head.

PS. Gold is just like any other currency. If you fear mongers really wanted to make money, invest in resources and commodities and real-estate. Now is the best time to buy a house. People always need food and shelter, and resources drive industry regardless where it is in the world.
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:18 AM   #30
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If you want to impress me, tell me why the YEN is so high still, even after a massive disaster.
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