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Old 06-08-2008, 12:24 AM   #1
Tenchuu
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Dealing with ethanol gas? how to do it?

************************I am talking about E-10 ethanol blend, not pure ethanol.**************

so i have a S1 RB25DET, and drive it somewhat daily around. it ran great, then my state mandated ethanol mix gas. ever since that happened, it started having weird issues. complete loss of power, shitty mileage, no torque, idling low, dieing when coming to an idle after higher RPMs.

so I set the FPR, and idle and timing to factory specs, but when it gets hot out the thing looses all power, thing is now that some stations switched back to ethanol free gas, i filled up with that, and all those problems went away.

So the RB25DET is bone stock with a walbro and a FMIC (even factory boost controller hooked up) is there anything i can do to compensate for the shitty ethanol mix gas that will be coming back in a few months?

and FYI the gas stations brought it back because right now the fuel companies are charging the same price for ethanol and ethanol free gas, so the whole idea that ethanol is cheaper is BS.

************************I am talking about E-10 ethanol blend, not pure ethanol.**************

Last edited by Tenchuu; 06-08-2008 at 10:26 AM.. Reason: clarifaction
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Old 06-08-2008, 01:28 AM   #2
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are you talking aboutE E85? cars need to be tuned to use that, not to mention it can be corrosive on fuel systems not designed for it.
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Old 06-08-2008, 02:17 AM   #3
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arn't u supposed to run bigger injectors for ethanol?
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Old 06-08-2008, 03:57 AM   #4
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are you talking aboutE E85? cars need to be tuned to use that, not to mention it can be corrosive on fuel systems not designed for it.
I believe it was the company located in Orlando involved with drifting who put components of the fuel systems in e85 for over a year and saw no corrosion. Shit..I cant remember their name...too late.
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Old 06-08-2008, 05:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slw240sx View Post
are you talking aboutE E85? cars need to be tuned to use that, not to mention it can be corrosive on fuel systems not designed for it.
No I think some states are requiring like 10-15 percent ethanol, which you shouldn't have a problem running in any car. States couldn't pass a mandatory E85 law because like you said not all cars are designed to use it. E85 is 85 percent ethanol btw.
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Old 06-08-2008, 07:38 AM   #6
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Make sure your oxygen sensor is working if you are having issues with E10. Even if it isn't, it should run fine on a stock tune since the stoich ratio of E10 is about 14.3 instead of 14.6 - not a big difference. Other than that, it isn't the gas that is the problem, it is something else with your car.
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Old 06-08-2008, 10:07 AM   #7
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yeah it is E-10 ethanol gas. and as well as other things my gas mileage dropped from 22-24 mpg TO 18 mpg around town. but what concerns me is the complete lack of power, as soon as i started up my car in the gas station with the new tank of 92 octane it ran like a champ again and is back up to idling @ 1000-12000 RPM instead of 700ish and jumping around. thinking maybe i should re-check the timing now that it has proper fuel in it and see if that isn't an issue.

and i am going to swap out the 02 sensor soon, as well as ditch the coilpacks for the plug/wire option just to be sure that my ignition isn't an issue. but i went through and unplugged the coil packs one at a time to see if one was not working, and they all were, it made a huge difference when i did that.
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Old 06-08-2008, 10:10 AM   #8
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if you have a boosted motor, you want to run a higher octane, so why are you running 89 at best with ethanol blend?... run premium all the time, unless you want to get your car tuned out for e85.. which isnt a bad idea(higher octane, cheaper)
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Old 06-08-2008, 10:12 AM   #9
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???

Why does no know here know what E10 is - it's been the only gas around my area for years now.

It's 90% whatever grade of gas and 10% ethanol, usually blended in at the refinery.
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Old 06-08-2008, 10:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
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... with the new tank of 92 octane it ran like a champ again ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lost_generation View Post
why are you running 89 at best with ethanol blend?... (higher octane, cheaper)
I only run premium in my car,I've never put in a tank of anything else, and refuse to. premium is 92 octane here.
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Old 06-08-2008, 10:50 AM   #11
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need to burn 10% mix quickly... letting it sit the 10% ethanol evaporates leaving a film of shit you dont want to combust....
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Old 06-08-2008, 11:05 AM   #12
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Adding ethanol is a government and oil company scam to reduce fuel economy so we have to buy more, and they will increase the price just for the hell of it cause they dont know what the fuck they are doing and they want to screw up the economy. If i ever see you Mr. oil company owner, i will personally cock slap your face. Sorry guys, i had to vent a little bit.



Try running octane booster, my friend had to do that and his runs much better
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Old 06-08-2008, 11:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WangonwWarrior View Post
Try running octane booster, my friend had to do that and his runs much better
that stuff is such a scam / waste of money. you would think the "1 point" they claim is equal to 1 octane point (bringing 93 to 94), but really it's 1/10th bringing 93 to 93.1

better off mixing in some race gas
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Old 06-08-2008, 11:23 AM   #14
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word. i hope some American "terrorists" start blowing up oil company buildings. they would have mad public support as long as they did it at night when thousands of people wouldn't die.

but anyways i will try some octane booster and see how that works.
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Old 06-08-2008, 11:28 AM   #15
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that stuff is such a scam / waste of money. you would think the "1 point" they claim is equal to 1 octane point (bringing 93 to 94), but really it's 1/10th bringing 93 to 93.1

better off mixing in some race gas
You read it wrong. It says it will bring your octane up 10 points, but 1 point is .1 octane. So you are getting 1 extra octane....

Yep, it is still useless...
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Old 06-08-2008, 11:51 AM   #16
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guess it is time to experiment with buying Toulene but the drum and suing it to bump up the octane to counteract the shit that the government is putting the my fuel. fuckers.
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Old 06-08-2008, 11:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchuu View Post
guess it is time to experiment with buying Toulene but the drum and suing it to bump up the octane to counteract the shit that the government is putting the my fuel. fuckers.

im thinking meth/water injection
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Old 06-08-2008, 12:30 PM   #18
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You read it wrong. It says it will bring your octane up 10 points, but 1 point is .1 octane. So you are getting 1 extra octane....

Yep, it is still useless...

His valves chattered on 91 octane and the dealer told him the octane was not high enough so he runs octane booster and they dont chatter anymore I DUNNO
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Old 06-08-2008, 01:06 PM   #19
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Adding ethanol is a government and oil company scam to reduce fuel economy so we have to buy more, and they will increase the price just for the hell of it cause they dont know what the fuck they are doing and they want to screw up the economy. If i ever see you Mr. oil company owner, i will personally cock slap your face. Sorry guys, i had to vent a little bit.
No it isn't. It's reduced our imported oil/gas amount by billions of gallons at this point, and since it's an oxygenate it helps get more complete combustion. We are all subsidizing this via taxes to some amount, which sucks, but oh well, you're going to pay for it one way or another.
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Old 06-08-2008, 01:14 PM   #20
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This thread has sooo many misconceptions and mythis so lets clarfify few things
E10 gas which is required in some areas means that the gas contains 10% ethanol by volume, consequently E85 means 85% ethanol. Ethanol additon in gasoline itself is not new since certain states mandated oxygenated fuel for awhile now for example with E5 gas.
So what changes when you add ethanol to gasoline?
1. Octane
Adding ethanol in general improve gasoline octane number since they have much higher octane rating. That being said E10 gasoline does NOT necessarily have higher octane than E5. Remember that fuel is rated by minimum octane rating (R+M/2), so they may start with lower octane base gasoline and add the ethanol to achieve the same minimum octane.
2. Stoichiometric Ratio
In general most gasoline has about 14.7 to 1 stoichiometric ratio. Adding E10 ethanol changes this ratio up to 14.1. Most car compensates this by the long term fuel trim where you "learn" the ratio and changes your fueling. This is the "enleanment" effect of E10 so if you run open loop you could see your fueling off by about 2-3% average.
3. Fuel volatility
Ethanol has lower vapor pressure than gasoline. This has effect on cold start especially around freezing temperature where pure ethanol is very difficult to vaporize. This does not matter if your car is already warm and running.
4. Water solubility
Ethanol has higher propensity to absorb water. This is not a problem since most tanks and delivery in gasoline distribution are not exposed to open air or water. Car fuel tank and fuel system also designed to be contained.

So judging the facts can this cause all your problems of stalling, no power, bad idle, low fuel economy? Very unlikely. Millions of car out there running E10 wothout any problems.
I think you may have other problem with the car, I would suggest get a wide band and check your AFR to make sure it is still running right AFR.
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Old 06-08-2008, 06:55 PM   #21
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...So judging the facts can this cause all your problems of stalling, no power, bad idle, low fuel economy? Very unlikely. Millions of car out there running E10 without any problems.
I think you may have other problem with the car, I would suggest get a wide band and check your AFR to make sure it is still running right AFR.
well you have nice propaganda there, let me tell you what millions of people are noticing and complaining about here as this E-10 crap gas switch is being implemented:

1. FACT: E-10 reduces gas mileage the official estimate is 3%, but most people here have seen 10% drops in fuel economy.

here is a local newspaper's article about it:http://www.oregonlive.com/environmen...rement_lo.html

2. FACT: your engine will loose torque this can not be debated, if you want too, come up here and try for yourself, but realize that this is gas with almost no emissions additives to it, not CA gas here, the good stuff)

3. FACT:you have to get bigger injectors and burn more fuel to make the same numbers to run E85.

4. FACT thousands of cars are currently observing facts 1 and 2 which you are trying to debate. come up here and try out the fuel for yourself. there is no question once you have gotten non-emissions gas and then E-10 gas.

5. FACT: ethanol contains about two-thirds the energy content of gasoline, gallon for gallon, so if run E85, your mileage is reduced by 30%, why is this magically not an issue addressed when you say that ethanol does not drag down gas mileage?


Things i have noticed besides: CA gas ran like crap compared to OR gas, so i would imagine switching from CA gas to E-10 CA gas would have very little effect as it does not run well in the first place.

I can piss in my tank and get similar results as E-10 gas, so i refuse to believe it is a wonderful thing like allot of people try to make it out to be, plus my piss i s cheaper to produce than E-10. Think i need to market it as an emissions reducer?



BACK TO THE POINT:

E-10 does not run as well as regular gas, has anyone found out a good way other than a standalone and bumping up the fuel and timing (not to the E85 standards, but something along those lines i could see working) or dumping massive amounts of octane booster, but i think i would go with a standalone, wideband and bigger turbo before i implemented any secondairy injection system.
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