Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Go Back   Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum > General > Tech Talk

Tech Talk Technical Discussion About The Nissan 240SX and Nissan Z Cars


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-13-2008, 12:58 AM   #1
SoguRacing
Post Whore!
 
SoguRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: (714)
Age: 28
Posts: 2,967
Trader Rating: (23)
Feedback Score: 23 reviews
Send a message via AIM to SoguRacing
Running without o2 sensor

Ok guys, i just bought a megan turbo elbow and its for a fat o2 sensor and my redtop has a skinny o2 sensor. Question...What to do...Do I run without an o2 sensor? The car is obd 1 so the o2 sensor doesn't do much though it will improve gas mileage at cruising speeds.
Or..do i weld the skinny o2sensor to the fat bung and hope that it works.

I know there's other options but dont really want to go out and buy a fatty o2 sensor or another elbow to suit my needs. Any help is appreciated. thanks
SoguRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-13-2008, 01:01 AM   #2
fliprayzin240sx
Moar Pork and Beer!!!
 
fliprayzin240sx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ass Crack of Hamptin Vagina
Posts: 17,965
Trader Rating: (19)
Feedback Score: 19 reviews
Send a message via AIM to fliprayzin240sx
There should be an adapter for the skinny o2
__________________

If you think Zilvia has too many assholes...
CLICK HERE!!!
fliprayzin240sx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 01:05 AM   #3
dtc 360RT
Zilvia Addict
 
dtc 360RT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: You can tell how I walk, I ain't from around herr..Five6Duece, Kings Only
Age: 31
Posts: 632
Trader Rating: (13)
Feedback Score: 13 reviews
Send a message via AIM to dtc 360RT
I think theres adapters availiable....also I know the stock exhaust manifold on an sohc has and adapter. I figured that out when I put headers on my sohc, I unscrewed the o2 and it was obviously to skinny for the hole on my headers then I realized I could unscrew the other part on my exhaust manifold. I have an extra one you can have, wortha try?
__________________

DTCPerformance.com, Socal-Drift.com, Myspace.com/Dtcperformance
DTC 360RT Review
dtc 360RT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 01:06 AM   #4
SoguRacing
Post Whore!
 
SoguRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: (714)
Age: 28
Posts: 2,967
Trader Rating: (23)
Feedback Score: 23 reviews
Send a message via AIM to SoguRacing
I didn't know about that. I'll search around. oh and thanks for the rep bump on the DIY thread.
SoguRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 01:08 AM   #5
SoguRacing
Post Whore!
 
SoguRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: (714)
Age: 28
Posts: 2,967
Trader Rating: (23)
Feedback Score: 23 reviews
Send a message via AIM to SoguRacing
So you have an adapter for it? something that screws into the fatty and threads it down to the skinny? sounds good. where you at? pm me.
SoguRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 01:20 AM   #6
KiLLeR2001
Post Whore!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: オーランドフロリダ
Posts: 6,213
Trader Rating: (30)
Feedback Score: 30 reviews
You can order the adapter piece from Nissan if you have to. I believe its around $11.

Part #: 20607-V5000
__________________


NissanPure.com
KiLLeR2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 01:26 AM   #7
GSXRJJordan
Premium Member
 
GSXRJJordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: << 626 >>
Posts: 8,996
Trader Rating: (19)
Feedback Score: 19 reviews
Send a message via AIM to GSXRJJordan
Yeah, all the new Megan elbows come with an adapter. I drilled/tapped my "plug" to fit the skinny one once, and then on my next one just got a blacktop o2 sensor that fit the hole, and then replaced that elbow and the new one had the adapter

Don't run without an o2 sensor if you can help it.
__________________


Jordan Innovations has a new web site!
www.JordanInnovations.com -- All your favorite FD Pro Drifters love it, trust me -- www.JordanInnovations.com
GSXRJJordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 01:30 AM   #8
SoguRacing
Post Whore!
 
SoguRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: (714)
Age: 28
Posts: 2,967
Trader Rating: (23)
Feedback Score: 23 reviews
Send a message via AIM to SoguRacing
i can't find a site that sells it. I have a nissan dealer right around the corner, i'll just hit them up. thanks guys! +1
SoguRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 06:18 AM   #9
Sileighty_85
Post Whore!
 
Sileighty_85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Misawa, Japan
Posts: 6,136
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
this ones more expensive but if ya can't find it at the dealer her ya go http://enjukuracing.com/spec-sensor-...ml?cPath=24_57
__________________
後輪駆動車1番
1989 Built SR GT2871R -363whp
1998 S14 W/RB25- 250ish (For Now)
1986 SR86 - 200ish
1990 R32 GTR - 320hp
Don't Buy Engines from JDM-Online http://zilvia.net/f/businesses/207457-jdm-online.html
Don't Buy XS-Power or SSAC Shit
Sileighty_85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 08:28 AM   #10
g6civcx
Post Whore!
 
g6civcx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,766
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoguRacing View Post
What to do
Run a Z32 O2 sensor. Problem solved.

Cliff's notes of the earlier o2 threads:

Some say skinny and fatty are different and not interchangeable.

I say if you can show the data stream for a skinny vs. a fatty on the same engine and recording data at the same time, then maybe you can make a case that they're different. But even then, you have to show that the ECU is actually processing the two signals differently somehow.

So far no one cared enough to do this so run whatever you want.
g6civcx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 08:36 AM   #11
clark
Zilvia FREAK!
 
clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: new york
Posts: 1,036
Trader Rating: (1)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
^--spot on.

depending how crusty and old your skinny o2 sensor is, just pick up a new fat type o2 sensor from a z32. same plug and everything. the exact details are in the SR20DET FAQs.

just look at it this way, do you REALLY wanna waste your time buying an adapter to adapt the skinny type that isn't even available here?

it's like buying a big as TV antenna and putting it on your roof, which is a waste because they're turnign off analog air broadcasts in 2009 anyway lol
clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 08:49 AM   #12
g6civcx
Post Whore!
 
g6civcx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,766
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
I don't want to dig it up again, but the big arguments from them was that the skinny and the fatty send a different signal to the ECU, and the ECU gets confused if you mix and match.

My position was that at best the signal is more responsive on one type over the other, but the ECU takes an average of the sensor reading over a period of time, and o2 reading isn't a crucial parameter anyway.

Does anybody want to run some testing?
g6civcx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 08:52 AM   #13
Sileighty_85
Post Whore!
 
Sileighty_85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Misawa, Japan
Posts: 6,136
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Damn beat me too it^^

Its cheaper (here as far a new one goes)

http://www.thenismoshop.com/ikorb.ph...roduct_id=1607

Fat Vs Skinny One uses a voltage signal and the other uses a resistor
there was a thread on this about a month ago
__________________
後輪駆動車1番
1989 Built SR GT2871R -363whp
1998 S14 W/RB25- 250ish (For Now)
1986 SR86 - 200ish
1990 R32 GTR - 320hp
Don't Buy Engines from JDM-Online http://zilvia.net/f/businesses/207457-jdm-online.html
Don't Buy XS-Power or SSAC Shit
Sileighty_85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 08:54 AM   #14
g6civcx
Post Whore!
 
g6civcx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,766
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sileighty_85 View Post
Fat Vs Skinny One uses a voltage signal and the other uses a resistor
there was a thread on this about a month ago
What is the difference between a "voltage signal" and a "resistor"?
g6civcx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 08:57 AM   #15
Sileighty_85
Post Whore!
 
Sileighty_85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Misawa, Japan
Posts: 6,136
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by g6civcx View Post
What is the difference between a "voltage signal" and a "resistor"?
you know the thread i'm talking about dont ya?

I think it was this one
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.p...rconia+ceramic

More Info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O2_sensor

somthing along the lines of
One sent a signal and the other recived and used a resistior to change the voltage and send it back to the ECU.
__________________
後輪駆動車1番
1989 Built SR GT2871R -363whp
1998 S14 W/RB25- 250ish (For Now)
1986 SR86 - 200ish
1990 R32 GTR - 320hp
Don't Buy Engines from JDM-Online http://zilvia.net/f/businesses/207457-jdm-online.html
Don't Buy XS-Power or SSAC Shit

Last edited by Sileighty_85; 05-13-2008 at 09:08 AM.. Reason: Sites
Sileighty_85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 09:19 AM   #16
SHIFT_*grind*
Nissanaholic!
 
SHIFT_*grind*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: VA Beach
Age: 31
Posts: 2,066
Trader Rating: (7)
Feedback Score: 7 reviews
Depending on whether or not you can find it at the dealer, and depending on how much it costs, getting it from Megan might be cheaper. It's not on their website, but you can call them and ask for it directly. $15 shipped. (626)581-0988

A lot cheaper than $20 plus shipping (probably $10) that Enjuku wants. $30? For a bolt? Come the fuck on, guys.
__________________
1993 SR 'Vert

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springs1 View Post
I ONLY CONSENTED TO ONE COKE
My seller review thread
SHIFT_*grind* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 09:23 AM   #17
g6civcx
Post Whore!
 
g6civcx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,766
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sileighty_85 View Post
you know the thread i'm talking about dont ya?

I think it was this one
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.p...rconia+ceramic

More Info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O2_sensor
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sileighty_85 View Post
somthing along the lines of
One sent a signal and the other recived and used a resistior to change the voltage and send it back to the ECU.

You are the ECU and I am the O2 sensor. We're connected by a straw (wire) and we can blow spit wads (electrons) at each other.

When I suck spit wads from you, I am a voltage triggered sensor. Electrons flow from negative (you/ECU) to positive electrical potential (me/sensor). I'm sending a signal to you because I'm sucking your spit wads away.

When I blow spit wads at you, I am a current triggered sensor. Electrons flow from negative (me/sensor) to positive electrical potential (you/ECU). I'm sending you resistance because the more resistance I send, the more spit wads will get blown your way.


It has to do with which way the spit wads are going. The ECU has to know whether it wil get blown or sucked


Now, does skinny and fatty each suck or blow?
g6civcx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 09:28 AM   #18
KiLLeR2001
Post Whore!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: オーランドフロリダ
Posts: 6,213
Trader Rating: (30)
Feedback Score: 30 reviews
Lets end this. These are your options:

1. Buy $10 adapter piece at the Nissan dealership.
2. Buy an E5 ECU and a Z32 TT fatty o2 sensor.

Hmm decisions, decisions.
__________________


NissanPure.com
KiLLeR2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 09:29 AM   #19
Sileighty_85
Post Whore!
 
Sileighty_85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Misawa, Japan
Posts: 6,136
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Fatty - Blows

The zirconium dioxide, or zirconia, lambda sensor is based on a solid-state electrochemical fuel cell called the Nernst cell. Its two electrodes provide an output voltage corresponding to the quantity of oxygen in the exhaust relative to that in the atmosphere.

Skinny - Sucks and Blows

This type does not generate its own voltage, but changes its electrical resistance in response to the oxygen concentration. The resistance of the titania is a function of the oxygen partial pressure and the temperature.
__________________
後輪駆動車1番
1989 Built SR GT2871R -363whp
1998 S14 W/RB25- 250ish (For Now)
1986 SR86 - 200ish
1990 R32 GTR - 320hp
Don't Buy Engines from JDM-Online http://zilvia.net/f/businesses/207457-jdm-online.html
Don't Buy XS-Power or SSAC Shit
Sileighty_85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 09:48 AM   #20
g6civcx
Post Whore!
 
g6civcx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 5,766
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiLLeR2001 View Post
Lets end this. These are your options:

1. Buy $10 adapter piece at the Nissan dealership.
2. Buy an E5 ECU and a Z32 TT fatty o2 sensor.

Hmm decisions, decisions.
The only possible problem I see with the Megan adaptor is that it doesn't put the tip of the sensor as deep into the exhaust flow as a stock elbow or a fatty. I haven't seen the stock adaptor so I don't know.


We're still trying to figure out which is which, for all those inquiring Zilvian minds.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sileighty_85 View Post
Fatty - Blows

The zirconium dioxide, or zirconia, lambda sensor is based on a solid-state electrochemical fuel cell called the Nernst cell. Its two electrodes provide an output voltage corresponding to the quantity of oxygen in the exhaust relative to that in the atmosphere.
I only see one wire output for the sensor signal. Where does the other electrode go? Also, when you blow electrons at the ECU, this current triggered, not voltage triggered. Remember that electrons go from (-) to (+).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sileighty_85 View Post
Skinny - Sucks and Blows

This type does not generate its own voltage, but changes its electrical resistance in response to the oxygen concentration. The resistance of the titania is a function of the oxygen partial pressure and the temperature.
I don't see how a single sensor can both suck and blow. Can you explain?


How do you know if the skinny is not a Nernst cell?
g6civcx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 10:01 AM   #21
flip3d
Zilvia FREAK!
 
flip3d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Age: 26
Posts: 1,473
Trader Rating: (1)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Send a message via AIM to flip3d
So they arent interchangeable? I'm using the fatty on my redtop. When I first give it some throttle, the A/F goes to 20 then takes a couple seconds to get back down to 14.7

Should I be using the skinny one? I have the 62 ECU.
flip3d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 10:13 AM   #22
Sileighty_85
Post Whore!
 
Sileighty_85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Misawa, Japan
Posts: 6,136
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by g6civcx View Post

I only see one wire output for the sensor signal. Where does the other electrode go? Also, when you blow electrons at the ECU, this current triggered, not voltage triggered. Remember that electrons go from (-) to (+).
two electrodes provide an output voltage corresponding to the quantity of oxygen in the exhaust relative to that in the atmosphere.

The tip reads the exhaust and the outer body reads the outside atomshere. The two electrodes are the 02 body and the tip.

yes Im very aware that electrons go from (-) to (+) such as lightining travles from the ground to the sky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g6civcx View Post
I don't see how a single sensor can both suck and blow. Can you explain?
Ok this sucking and blowing thing sounds gay, why dont we just say Send and Receive
control unit feeds the sensor with a small electrical current and measures the resulting voltage across the sensor


Quote:
Originally Posted by g6civcx View Post
How do you know if the skinny is not a Nernst cell?
the skinny is a Titania sensor which has a ceramic element

Zirconia sensor is based off of the Nernst Cell.

So thats how i know the skinny is not a Nernst Cell
__________________
後輪駆動車1番
1989 Built SR GT2871R -363whp
1998 S14 W/RB25- 250ish (For Now)
1986 SR86 - 200ish
1990 R32 GTR - 320hp
Don't Buy Engines from JDM-Online http://zilvia.net/f/businesses/207457-jdm-online.html
Don't Buy XS-Power or SSAC Shit

Last edited by Sileighty_85; 05-13-2008 at 11:49 AM.. Reason: Busy at work, hard to think
Sileighty_85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 10:48 AM   #23
KiLLeR2001
Post Whore!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: オーランドフロリダ
Posts: 6,213
Trader Rating: (30)
Feedback Score: 30 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d View Post
So they arent interchangeable? I'm using the fatty on my redtop. When I first give it some throttle, the A/F goes to 20 then takes a couple seconds to get back down to 14.7

Should I be using the skinny one? I have the 62 ECU.
Get the skinny o2. ('87 Turbo 300zx). And the adapter piece., see if the A/F no longer jumps to 20 and remains around 14.7.
__________________


NissanPure.com
KiLLeR2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 10:51 AM   #24
Sileighty_85
Post Whore!
 
Sileighty_85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Misawa, Japan
Posts: 6,136
Trader Rating: (5)
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiLLeR2001 View Post
Get the skinny o2. ('87 Turbo 300zx). And the adapter piece., see if the A/F no longer jumps to 20 and remains around 14.7.
its cheaper from here $63
http://www.thenismoshop.com/ikorb.ph...roduct_id=1607

Autozone wants like 90-100 bucks
__________________
後輪駆動車1番
1989 Built SR GT2871R -363whp
1998 S14 W/RB25- 250ish (For Now)
1986 SR86 - 200ish
1990 R32 GTR - 320hp
Don't Buy Engines from JDM-Online http://zilvia.net/f/businesses/207457-jdm-online.html
Don't Buy XS-Power or SSAC Shit
Sileighty_85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 11:57 AM   #25
SoguRacing
Post Whore!
 
SoguRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: (714)
Age: 28
Posts: 2,967
Trader Rating: (23)
Feedback Score: 23 reviews
Send a message via AIM to SoguRacing
Wow, didn't think this thread would go this far.. i'm off to get the adapter piece. seeing that i'll be at WOT most of the time or at a stop, the sensor probably won't be as crucial to my performance as some might think. 11 bucks is a bargain.
SoguRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 01:37 PM   #26
GSXRJJordan
Premium Member
 
GSXRJJordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: << 626 >>
Posts: 8,996
Trader Rating: (19)
Feedback Score: 19 reviews
Send a message via AIM to GSXRJJordan
I also use a fatty sensor on a redtop, with no 'known' problems... but I'd love to see if your A/Fs change, Killer2001.
__________________


Jordan Innovations has a new web site!
www.JordanInnovations.com -- All your favorite FD Pro Drifters love it, trust me -- www.JordanInnovations.com
GSXRJJordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 11:54 AM   #27
KiLLeR2001
Post Whore!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: オーランドフロリダ
Posts: 6,213
Trader Rating: (30)
Feedback Score: 30 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan View Post
I also use a fatty sensor on a redtop, with no 'known' problems... but I'd love to see if your A/Fs change, Killer2001.
You mean "flip3d". He has the fatty sensor with the redtop.. I've got the skinny o2 sensor for my redtop. No problems here.
__________________


NissanPure.com
KiLLeR2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 09:26 AM   #28
flip3d
Zilvia FREAK!
 
flip3d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Age: 26
Posts: 1,473
Trader Rating: (1)
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Send a message via AIM to flip3d
I swapped in the skinny. I get wayy better milage but my turbo timer wont display the A/F. The signal wire is ecu pin 19, correct?
flip3d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2012, 11:55 PM   #29
will_drift_4_food
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 16
Trader Rating: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d View Post
I swapped in the skinny. I get wayy better milage but my turbo timer wont display the A/F.
This is to be expected. With the Zirconia sensor, which is more-or-less universal, each possible voltage in the range of 0-1V correlates to a specific AFR (coarse), so the turbo timer is able to translate the voltage signal to an AFR. Since the Titania sensor is so rarely used, I doubt they saw much point in using valuable IC space to provide that option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d View Post
The signal wire is ecu pin 19, correct?
Yes, that is correct, except in the case of certain Type-X (J4) ECUs.

240Atlanta Thread HERE
will_drift_4_food is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 12:23 AM   #30
benarovi
Zilvia Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: FaiL
Age: 21
Posts: 721
Trader Rating: (10)
Feedback Score: 10 reviews
get more cool backfires and shittier gas mileage
i ran no sensor for aobut a year it was fine, when i put it back in i didnt see a difference at all except for gas and backfiring
benarovi is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vB.Sponsors
Copyright © 1998 - 2014, Zilvia.net™