This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[TheRealSy90]

So I've decided I'm going to buy a complete front and rear knuckle+arm kit.
Problem is I can't decide between Wisefab, GkTech or PBM as they both offer full front and rear drop knuckle/arm kits.
They all look great. They all seem to perform great. GkTech seems to maybe have better rear knuckle kinematics?


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[ka-titties]

Originally Posted by di-devol

S13 FD legal wisefab installed:

There seems to be a lack of info for this kit. You do need to modify your strut tower for shock adjuster:
Another thing they don't mention, it moves the hubs 2-1/2" out farther than stock.
This is with -6+ camber 9.5 +10 wheels

have you been living under a rock?

[di-devol]

It seems so.

[LuckyX2]

I wish my GKTech's moved the hub out. I hit my struts with 315 tires up front...

[anti tyler]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

So I've decided I'm going to buy a complete front and rear knuckle+arm kit.
Problem is I can't decide between Wisefab, GkTech or PBM as they both offer full front and rear drop knuckle/arm kits.
They all look great. They all seem to perform great. GkTech seems to maybe have better rear knuckle kinematics?


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local friend of mine runs wisefab. he hasn't had anything bad to say about it so far

[ka-titties]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

I wish my GKTech's moved the hub out. I hit my struts with 315 tires up front...

None of them move the hub outboard in relation to the struts. They all move the whole front spindle and strut pickup outboard via a longer LCA.

[TheRealSy90]

I think Wisefab does though.


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[LuckyX2]

So how are you guys fixing it rubbing the axle boot again? I'm thinking just shortening the tension rod a bit might get me enough clearance.

[Motary]

What length have you set the traction rod at?

[Thursday7]

Quick question:

Is there a difference between using a tie rod spacer and running longer tie rods? As I see it, all that matters is the length from the rack threads to the ball joint on the outer end. But if this is the case, why would spacers exist if there are longer tie rods out there. Is there something I am not getting?

[Nissansota240]

Originally Posted by Thursday7

Quick question:

Is there a difference between using a tie rod spacer and running longer tie rods? As I see it, all that matters is the length from the rack threads to the ball joint on the outer end. But if this is the case, why would spacers exist if there are longer tie rods out there. Is there something I am not getting?

Rack spacers add length, but also increase rack travel.

Longer tie rods just increase length

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by Motary

What length have you set the traction rod at?

Shortening the traction rod fixed it. Running 210mm now. S14 subframe is recommended 199mm but I'm running the RLCA with the 15mm spacer.

[Axel18]

Originally Posted by Thursday7

Quick question:

Is there a difference between using a tie rod spacer and running longer tie rods? As I see it, all that matters is the length from the rack threads to the ball joint on the outer end. But if this is the case, why would spacers exist if there are longer tie rods out there. Is there something I am not getting?

to add, rack spacers usually have a small diameter section that goes into the steering rack after the thread, hence the more lock, since you can fully use the teeths of the steering rack. Without them the tie rod usually stops against the steering rack housing limiting how much movement you have.

Im using like 4 big rack spacers lol (not the ring type), since i extended my flca, tein rods didnt give me enough length to fully connect everything.

[derass]

Tie rod spacers (rings, thread-in, and offset) also move the inner pivot point. This changes bump-steer. Longer tie rods have the inner pivot at the factory location.

[Black R]

Is it possible to buy the wisefab upper strut relocation piece separately from the whole kit?

[ka-titties]

They offer every part separately.

[D-Clem]

Anyone used the new Geomaster 3 front knuckle? There seems to not be very much information on it even on the website. It appears to be a trailing knuckle in "drift mode" and it's not even mentioned. Ackerman gains, (I know they don't advertise angle), but for something like these that seem like a big deal, I'm really surprised I can't find any real info other than "we collaborated with Wisefab". I'm running GKTech's Flca, their sway bar setup, and my own custom knuckle. I will be changing to GKTech's v3 (also not much info on yet but the manufacturer lists a ton of info unlike driftworks AND has been on top of all my questions and order changes when I needed it) more than likely but wanted to see how the new Driftworks/wisefab did. Also, the PBM trailing knuckle. Is this just a new thing that is gaining popularity since Wisefab was doing it? I'm missing the big deal about the trailing knuckle I guess? Is it just that you can run more caster without having to bring the wheel too far forward or back in the wheel well or am I missing a huge benefit here? Anyone using the PBM trailing knuckle yet

[ka-titties]

Originally Posted by D-Clem

Anyone used the new Geomaster 3 front knuckle? There seems to not be very much information on it even on the website. It appears to be a trailing knuckle in "drift mode" and it's not even mentioned. Ackerman gains, (I know they don't advertise angle), but for something like these that seem like a big deal, I'm really surprised I can't find any real info other than "we collaborated with Wisefab". I'm running GKTech's Flca, their sway bar setup, and my own custom knuckle. I will be changing to GKTech's v3 (also not much info on yet but the manufacturer lists a ton of info unlike driftworks AND has been on top of all my questions and order changes when I needed it) more than likely but wanted to see how the new Driftworks/wisefab did. Also, the PBM trailing knuckle. Is this just a new thing that is gaining popularity since Wisefab was doing it? I'm missing the big deal about the trailing knuckle I guess? Is it just that you can run more caster without having to bring the wheel too far forward or back in the wheel well or am I missing a huge benefit here? Anyone using the PBM trailing knuckle yet

Trailing knuckle allows you to run close to 0* caster and still have the self-steer feel of a car that has the normal 5-7* of caster.
Less caster means more contact patch at high steering angles.

[D-Clem]

Yea that's a pretty good idea, just wasn't sure if that was the whole principle in it but now begs the question of has anyone run them aside from wisefab and how does it feel in practice? Correct me if I'm wrong but my thought process is if you move the spindle back, in order to re-center the wheel in the wheel well, you will be in fact adding caster to get it to the same placement. That is unless when using these types of design people don't care about Wheel placement unless of course it is rubbing on the inner wheel well. It just seems counterproductive to me if you would then have to shorten the tension rod length to compensate? What am I missing here? Is the spindle movement not that drastic to where you would be able to in fact run zero caster and still have the Wheel center? Do you follow what I'm saying or what I am trying to say? I think I may just be confusing at this point but in my head you would be movIng the spindle backwards but only then be moving it back forward to center in the wheel well thus bringing about the same issue but then having even more caster. I guess with this type of design it's function over form purely? But then what about banging tire on the back of the wheel well? lol I'm sorry but I'm sure I'm missing something or it's truly not that drastic as my mind is leading me to believe

[ka-titties]

I'm not familiar enough with the knuckles to say how much they move the spindle back, but it looks like somewhere in the range of 15-25mm. Fairly significant. I can't personally say what people to to counteract the fact that the wheel now sits further back in the wheel well, but, considering the cost of the knuckle and that most people that would be using this should be fairly serious about what they're doing, I don't think aesthetics is an issue. Now wheel well clearance is another issue altogether. I'm not sure what can be done about that besides moving the strut top further forward and shortening the tension rod more.

[PoorMans180SX]

You move the wheel forward with offset strut tops.

Offthewall is test fitting and driving on GKtech's prototype V4 Pronuckle, which is a trialing knuckle with adjustable ackerman. 50mm drop as well.

He doesn't currently have offset strut tops, so he's running a LOT of caster.









This is with 8* of caster, on the highest ackerman setting, and with the lock stops all the way out. He needs offset strut tops to maximize angle, which is actually limited by his huge Evo 8/9 front calipers, haha.

[D-Clem]

Of course.... I buy v3 knucks today to finish my kit.... v4 come out soon hahahaha

[D-Clem]

But that's really cool. I wanted to just use PBM's and see how it felt but honestly I want some camber gain on lock. I don't want loads of front grip. I want good grip, but I want some slip too. Still would like to drive a set, thanks for sharing

[TheRealSy90]

How is the Ackerman adjustable on the GkTech V4 knuckles?


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[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

How is the Ackerman adjustable on the GkTech V4 knuckles?


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The tie rod seat is eccentric, and locks into place when you tighten it. You can see how it's offset to the inside in the pic above^.

[TheRealSy90]

I see. So not a large range of adjustment. Maybe a degree or two?


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[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

I see. So not a large range of adjustment. Maybe a degree or two?


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It's 6mm from inside to outside, which has a surprisingly large affect on ackerman.

[D-Clem]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

It's 6mm from inside to outside, which has a surprisingly large affect on ackerman.

This is absolutely true. I've made several sets of knuckles trying different inclination angles with the tie rod vs ball joint and distance in relation to being parallel vs further inboard and a very very small difference will make a huge change and especially at lock. Also I wanted to add to this thread and say I just got my GKTech V3 knuckles in the other day and finished off their front end "kit" at least the basics(sway bar, FLCA, and knuckles) and they are amazing. I bought the sway bar and Flca a couple weeks ago and decided I'd use those to help develop my own knuckles a little further since I'd have more clearance and be able to determine to perfect LCA extension for them and blah blah blah. Well, my tig welding helmet order got postponed another month (just waiting on the new Panoramaxx to get to the states) and I bought myself that for my birthday. Well I said screw that as I've already waited two months and canceled the order and just got the GKTech knuckles instead to try them out and see how they do their pickups. I'm blown away. Guys, to me, this is the ideal setup. At least the Flca and sway bar if you're on a budget and using modded knucks. Ball joint keeps the factory curve so scrub doesn't get messed up, you can run 20mm of roll center correction even on your factory knuckles with 17's(I know they say 18's but I tried work D9R's and RPF1's with plenty of clearance. And you can set the bump stop so you can go as mild or wild as you want. If you want to keep the wheels in the fender? Adjust them in some and set your stop accordingly. Idk I just thought I'd share because I've tried a lot of things and trying to find that perfect balance and I feel like this is a very very well done setup and the answer to street cars and guys like me that just have full drift cars (sees the street occasionally) and don't want wisefab for numerous reasons. If you've got any questions I'll try to do my best to answer but I know when I was debating them the only one I could find that had them was KATitties and a somewhat local dude that I don't know. Hope this helps someone because I was weary of their quality as I've seen some stuff come from them in the past that was bad but man, these are sweet.

[TheRealSy90]

I just ordered a pair of DriftKnuckles myself. Anybody try these yet? I didn't need the full kit as I already have custom lca and tension arms.


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[killer240]

...got my answer