Paying someone to restore a 91 240sx?

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by deecue

Ok, so please forgive the bit of ignorance here on my part, but I've got to ask.. How does a body shop fix the "rust"? Since this seems to be one of the largest components with owning a car of this age and especially in this area for the foreseeable next few years and the fact that it's a common point on this thread - what in fact happens during the repair? Are new molds made and welded in? Are new panels obtained somehow from parted out 240's? If even patched up, can the rust just begin to spread again like cancer at those joints? If found, can major parts of the frame or foundation be safely repaired/replaced and relied on for another decade? I just really have no idea of what's involved.

Also, it seems to be that the big next step is to start speaking with body shops for estimates on this. What if those unfortunately don't come back within my budget? What then? Is the car worthless? Would it even be sell-able? Do I seriously consider the viking funeral option at that point?

Every time I get under my car or pop the hood or just take it for a drive it seems crazy to think it's not worth anything.. And it doesn't look *that* bad to my eye. But I could also be a little out of touch with reality not being as mechanically inclined as I should be and potentially a bit biased as it's been my only car ever..

Repairing the rust would involve cutting out all the rusted areas of the car and replacing those panels with either new or good used panels. NOTHING is un-repairable as long as you're willing to pay for it. Not just any body shop would do to do the MAJOR rust repairs that this car would need. You would have to go to the BEST body shop you could possibly find in your area and be willing to pay whatever they wanted. 99% of body shops would just do the minimum, slap some bondo and undercoat over the rest. Shopping around for the best price would only get you in that situation.

I wouldn't pay jack shit for a rusty 200k S13, so in my opinion, yes, the car would be nearly worthless. Maybe you could get a few hundred bucks out of it from someone who wanted to part it out.

I seriously don't understand the sentimental attachment. I would part that thing out and move on. Of course you're talking to a guy who has owned like 20 cars in the same amount of time that you've owned that one...

[10psitx]

The car clearly has intrinsic value to you...so with that understanding and your budget, you have 3 basic choices...

1, Buy another car for "daily" use and spend the next year or so learning about the car and how to do rust repair, buy all the equipment to carry out, learn how to rebuild an engine, learn how to rebuild the suspension, research and purchase all the necessary parts to carry out this project. This will end up costing close or just over your budget.

2, Buy another daily, Then Pay a shop to do rust repair, prep and re-paint, Pay a shop to rebuild your suspension and engine, pay a shop to replace or repair the interior - This will surpass your budget but if its done in phases you can save up to cover the cost.

3 Sell this car and use your budget to buy a Daily suited to your needs and save up for a better chassis from the southern states, take some time and learn about the car and slowly build one for yourself.

As one poster put it...you really need to be a car guy to take on a project of this magnitude on your budget given the result you're looking for. If you look on nico forums there is a build thread that spans 10 years, the guy started from exactly your level and taught himself along the way. He still sent the car out for body work...i believe the cost so far is over 20k and counting?...This car will be a museum piece though if he ever completes it. It is by FAR the most inclusive and detailed build i have seen to date, It puts every other build to shame...I'm not suggesting you take the same route but it gives you an idea of what it takes to get the car back or as close to OEM...A lot of what was done will reflect what you will need to do. I do suggest you read it though.

http://forums.nicoclub.com/m-tr4nch-...30340-660.html

[RickBlaine]

Excellent thread and opinions here....!

Monkey Wrench time: I also own a 1991, it was my buddy's car bought brand new- I was his ride to the Skokie, IL dealer back in 1991. He moved to salt-free Seattle a month later, got married, and started his career. Then in 2010, he gave me the 240sx and I drove it back to Chicago. Why?

My buddy was a dentist....every 2-3 years his dental buddies bought new BMWs or Audis or whatever. He drove that Nissan every day and they laughed at him- until it started to be rather cool. The amount of money he would have spent on a new BMW? He invested it- every month. Wound up with over $400,000 in the 19 years he would have made BMW payments. What did he do with the $400,000? He doubled it in 2013 in Seattle real estate.

Since I brought the car back, I have one rule- do NOT drive it in snow/road salt. I have a trusty Honda Accord for that- I wrench that car, but really, there is not much to wrench as it is flawless. But rust? No rust on the Nissan- I simply will NOT drive it in the snow once the salt trucks come out.

My point is that you are young- and dropping $12,000-$20,000 on the Nissan THIS year may not be what is best for you.

You did not mention which field of work you are in? Is it a growing field with a good salary? Or are you just scraping by?

Perhaps restoring it 10 years from now would be a better choice- you will have more money if you invest the $12,000 now. The car's value will certainly go up 10 years from now- these cars are iconic.

But please don't restore it and then drive it in the road salt- that is not a wise investment- that is downright foolish. Don't spend $12K in your life now to begin corroding it now. If you restore it- be committed, no more road salt....ever!

Or maybe a couple thousand dollars now to spruce it up a bit and just keep driving it is what is in order- if your father-in-law does not come through for you.

My buddy Chris, the dentist, is a millionaire because he and his wife lived below their means for 20 years and invested their money. Now he buys Teslas, GT-R Skylines, and a Mercedes....

Sentimental value is important, and powerful. But what are the goals you and the wife have? Do you have kids? Thinking of college? Braces?

A neighbor had a 1968 Camaro for years and years. It was not in good shape. When his son was ten years old, he started to express an interest. So for 6 years (yes, six years) they spent time working on it, researching it, and doing everything except paint and bodywork. It was a great bonding project.

Whatever you do, good luck. Just please don't fix it up and then drive it in road salt.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by RickBlaine

Whatever you do, good luck. Just please don't fix it up and then drive it in road salt.

THIS^^^

If you're going to invest the kind of time and money necessary to restore the car it absolutely CANNOT be your daily driver. You NEED another car to beat on and not give much of a fuck about. It makes no sense whatsoever to do the work and continue driving the car through salt and snow.

[ixfxi]

Besides the car being "too far gone" in my opinion, the other problem you are going to find is that a multitude of parts are no longer available.

Combine the above with what Aron said, that any competent body shop is going to charge an arm and two legs to restore that car = NOT WORTH IT.

This is coming from someone who spend 10 years restoring my car. I am lucky I started 10 years ago, because nowadays it would be an impossibility.

[Toomuchboost12]

Originally Posted by Reece

I love this thread.

Fix all the rust, get some new seats, repaint it?

So glad to see someone taking care of an S chassis the right way.

this is a rare sight .

[turboshoebox]

Originally Posted by Toomuchboost12

this is a rare sight .

Plenty of people doing it right. just not a post about someones life long car that isn't a gear head needing help on doing so

[KiLLeR2001]

This thread breaks my heart. Aron and Mike have pretty much nailed it, but I will say this...

Take it to a body shop and get a full-on quote for a complete job. Rust removal, body work, complete repaint etc. If you do decide to go through with it; when you get your car back together and on the road, see how it makes you feel dropping whatever amount of money you did to get it to that point. If the money spent justifies your feelings and you feel that "flame" all over again from your younger days, that is when you get to make the decision if you want to keep going with it.

But that's also where you as a non-car guy will have to morph into a car guy. You will do this by continuing to come onto forums like this one, google searching, and pounding 15+ years of information about this car into your head. Then going out to your car and physically working with what you learned and researched. Trial and error. You'll make mistakes, you'll waste money, but you will definitely learn. You will never feel as much enjoyment from your car as you would knowing that you are capable of doing a good chunk of the work yourself. Not only that, but when people ask you questions about your car you don't have to say things like "Oh I'm not sure about that, let me call my mechanic (about my own car.)"

Of course, if you get all the body work done, repainted nicely, fresh set of wheels etc and you feel disgusted at the money you "wasted" on it, then it would be time to sell it to someone else and move on. 2015 Nissan Leaf awaits you.

ps, if you don't have a dedicated garage spot for it, don't even bother.

[wkpainter]

Keep it, put it on jack stands. Buy a newer car that you can safely drive a family around in (if you want a family). If you have a son (or interested daughter), you can learn and rebuild the car together, learn something together, and have an amazing time bonding. you can then gift said car to your child, and it will mean something to them. Or if when you have a family (if you want one) and you need to get away from them, go tinker in your garage on the car you've had since you were sixteen. I wouldn't spend any money paying someone else to fix it. it is not worth the investment.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by KiLLeR2001

Take it to a body shop and get a full-on quote for a complete job. Rust removal, body work, complete repaint etc. If you do decide to go through with it; when you get your car back together and on the road, see how it makes you feel dropping whatever amount of money you did to get it to that point. If the money spent justifies your feelings and you feel that "flame" all over again from your younger days, that is when you get to make the decision if you want to keep going with it.

The word "restoration" is relative. Most body shops are designed for just that: a *basic* paint job. Full restorations are usually out of the question, too much time/labor/cost. It would need to be justified. This does not mean 10k, this means tens of thousands of dollars for a full restoration (assuming parts are available, which they are not).

For most people, a restored 240SX has no meaning. Even to me, a stock 240SX is... boring. I would never want a stock car as its only adequate. The stock brakes and 15" wheel setup suck. The suspension is... OK, kinda. Open diff sucks, viscous sucks less. Exhaust note sucks. Engine (KA24E) sucks, KA24DE is... acceptable, barely, by modern standards. Lighting is antiquated as well. Interior is nice, although the seats are horrible. S14 seats are beter.

Some cars are worth restoring 100% accurately, this is not one of them. There is a reason why every 240SX I have laid eyes on are modified. The better cars are... well, modified with better parts. Thats the difference between a good car and a junk pile, the choice of parts and methods used to maintain the car.

Originally Posted by KiLLeR2001

But that's also where you as a non-car guy will have to morph into a car guy.

ps, if you don't have a dedicated garage spot for it, don't even bother.

Facts:
- You will need a very capable garage, with good power and lighting. 220v preferable.
- You will need a very sufficient quantity of tools. Majority of mechanics go into debt with Snap-On at this point.
- You will need a very extensive knowledge of all the facets of a car: electrical, mechanical, HVAC, engine, computer & tuning, plumbing, etc.
- You will need to replace the majority of old, rusty, worn out fasteners. You will not be installing worn drain plugs and stretched or stripped bolts.

I can say with great confidence that I have walked down this path with my own restoration projects, and that with all the tools and supplies I am able to restore more cars. Time will tell though. I will say that I know a great deal of individuals who have attempted the above and failed. I've seen numerous cars get parted out mid-restoration as the owner lost interest, lack of funds, or the ultimate killer: got married and/or had kids.

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by racepar1

Honestly, if you're not a car guy just let it go. I know it's your first car and it holds a lot of sentimental value, but the bottom line is that to do what you want in your budget you really NEED to be a car guy. You NEED to be able to source a lot of the parts yourself. You NEED to be able to do a lot of the minor work yourself. Since you're not a car guy I feel that all this talk about 180sx seats, aftermarket steering wheels, SR20's, suspension upgrades, etc... are not really what you're looking to do. You want the car in as close to brand new showroom condition as possible. You want a TRUE restoration, not so much a resto-mod build. To go that route you're talking about at least a $20k price tag, and that's on the very lowest of the low end. Bodywork alone will likely eat up almost all of your budget, MAYBE you could squeeze in most of the interior as well. That rust on the quarter panel is a VERY bad sign. I'm more than willing to bet that the deeper you dig into that car, the more rust you will find. It simply doesn't make any sense to do what you're talking about unless you're a REAL car guy with a REAL love (and knowledge) for 240sx's.

That, exactly.
Although 20k$ price tag ? I think you can easily triple that.

OP, your car is done. Interior is gone, rust ate the body, sun backed the paint and plastics, and you want an engine swap.

First thing to know about engine swap is that all sellers are going to tell you the engine have low mileage and well maintained. Which is a lie of course, but exactly what the buyer wants to hear.

If you could do some things by yourself, you could shave off some money, but even that would not cut down cost much.

a random engine swap is going to be in the 3-5K range. If you want to make it reliable, you need a full teardown and rebuild. Throw in forged pistons and rods, and a new turbo too because it will be knackered, add the usual supporting mods, and your budget is long gone.

handling wise, you are going to need changing all bushes, either with OEM bushes or ball joint aftermarket suspension arms (DONT use PU or "harder bushes"). Maybe dampers and harder springs, or coilovers. Or you could just buy front & rear full suspension kits, with new knuckes that correct OEM design errors, it is a bit expensive, but not that much.

There are 2 points in bigger wheels: 1/ fitting bigger brakes, 2/fitting larger or cheaper rubber.


Honestly, considering the sorry state of the car, not only is it not worth it at all, but don't expect to have any shop do the work in less than 6 month / a year. But before that, you will have to find good shops, and that won't come easy either.

And as said before, at the end of the day it will only be a 240sx worth nothing.

Sell it to a kid that will make a drift missile out of it and break it; use your money for a better car. It is time to leave your past behind. Of course it does not mean you have to buy a diesel estate... you grew up, you have money. Use it on a nicer car and keep your memories from that one.

These cars are terrible when stock ... i don't know how you guys like them. We get CA18DET in it in stock form, and the car still suck when stock, because nothing is good except somewhat the engine.

[ixfxi]

i will gladly sell my car to a kid that can make a drift missile out of it. as long as that kid has 250k.