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Old 03-10-2016, 03:48 PM   #31
kruked
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The hell w/ that! Spill the beans!!


I recently discovered that it's a power/ground issue.
I had my car up at my friends shop a couple of weeks ago. He thought it to be a grounding issue. When the problem was there, we threw the charger/jump box on the battery and the car fired right up.
We were able to replicate everything to the T various amount of times within 20 minuets. Ever time, the car fired right up.

I have yet to run through the grounds and powers on the chassis though.
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:48 AM   #32
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For anyone interested - the last fix did not work.
This weekend I went ahead an installed a relay in the engine fuse box area. Basically, instead of the starter getting signal through the ignition/key, it is now getting juice directly from battery source through the relay while using the ignition as signal for the relay. If this fails, the only thing that will be left is replacing the ignition wire in the body wiring harness.. I am hoping that this has fixed it. Will post update in a couple of weeks.
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Old 09-07-2016, 01:38 PM   #33
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Do you have anything tied into your ignition harness?
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Old 09-07-2016, 02:45 PM   #34
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^^ Yes, I have an alarm wired in with a starter kill relay. I have gone through and rewired it so that the wires are going directly into the starter kill relay without any crimps/wire sections in between. Unless the relay itself is preventing from the full 12v going to the starter I suspect that the culprit is old, worn out wiring. The original circuit is feeding the starter solenoid through a huge loop running from the fuse box, around the front of the car through the ignition switch and back to the starter. I am not an electrician so I do not know if wiring "wares out" over time, but by putting a relay and running the starter directly from the battery I bypass any problems with voltage/amps/resistance inconsistencies in the ignition wiring loop as the relay needs very little to be activated, much less than the starter solenoid...

Sorry for the lengthily response -
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:31 PM   #35
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Any luck sentradude? Im having similar issues. Its slightly depressing and very frustrating. Im in az too
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:49 PM   #36
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Similar issues. I jiggle the key and it starts.
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Old 09-13-2016, 03:18 PM   #37
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Any luck sentradude? Im having similar issues. Its slightly depressing and very frustrating. Im in az too
Yes, the last approach seemed to totally fix it. It really was not that difficult, or time consuming (took about 1hr, but could of been done quicker if I wasn't so picky). If you would like more details I can post them up here in a short write-up. But basically as stated above, wired in a relay between the starter and ignition key and no matter what I did or how far i drove, it always starts.

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Similar issues. I jiggle the key and it starts.
I too had this problem when I first started with this "project" and replaced the ignition. The problem went away for a couple of days and came back. The relay solution seems to address all the small things as the relay needs very little to switch vs the starter solenoid.
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Old 09-14-2016, 01:14 PM   #38
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Nice, could you explain the relay set up? Thanks in advance
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Old 09-14-2016, 02:04 PM   #39
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Had a similar problem in my s14, a no start just a clicking. Since then I have sold the sr motor that was in there and its been working fine in the new car its in. So that weeded out the starter itself being the problem.

Now I have my new motor in (1jz vvti) and it has the same issue. Sometimes first crank it starts, sometimes it takes about 50 on/off rotations of the ignition to get it to start.

We did a bunch of testing and its getting a 12v signal to the starter solenoid sometimes but not always.

I have a feeling the issues is the cable that I'm using to run power from the battery to the starter. It was an old power wire for a sound system, the cable my have bad terminals on the end and not allowing enough amperage through. So hopefully diving in to this in a week or 2.
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Old 09-17-2016, 04:42 PM   #40
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I will make a couple of drawings using the FSM and diagrams and post them up here. Problem has been 100% solved -
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Old 09-17-2016, 07:06 PM   #41
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I had this problem too, the little plug on the clutch pedal was broken/ loose and wouldn't hit the switch lol
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Old 09-17-2016, 08:47 PM   #42
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I went through something very similar earlier this week. The starter only clicked when attempting to start the car, however the starter would engage every time 12v was applied directly from the battery. It turned out to be the blue relay in the engine bay even though the relay clicked when bench tested and read electrically continuous with multimeter. Before replacing the relay, I tried replacing the ignition switch and bypassing my alarm with no luck. As a last effort, I removed the relay and jumped the larger relay connector terminals and the car started with the ignition switch. In hindsight, I should have tried this first because it is a very simple test, but I did not expect my relay bench testing results to be misleading. Replaced the relay and now the starter engages every time I turn the key. It seems the relay was incapable of sending enough current to the starter possibly due to corrosion on the internal contacts. Hope this info helps.
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Old 09-17-2016, 08:50 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n240sx View Post
I went through something very similar earlier this week. The starter only clicked when attempting to start the car, however the starter would engage every time 12v was applied directly from the battery. It turned out to be the blue relay in the engine bay even though the relay clicked when bench tested and read electrically continuous with multimeter. Before replacing the relay, I tried replacing the ignition switch and bypassing my alarm with no luck. As a last effort, I removed the relay and jumped the larger relay connector terminals and the car started with the ignition switch. In hindsight, I should have tried this first because it is a very simple test, but I did not expect my relay bench testing results to be misleading. Replaced the relay and now the starter engages every time I turn the key. It seems the relay was incapable of sending enough current to the starter possibly due to corrosion on the internal contacts. Hope this info helps.

Please point out the said relay in a picture.
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Old 09-17-2016, 09:06 PM   #44
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Please point out the said relay in a picture.
It is the circled relay shown below located between the stock battery location and the passenger fender. I believe it's the same relay others mentioned in this thread. Ignore the question mark in the picture. This is a borrowed picture.

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Old 09-17-2016, 09:33 PM   #45
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yes that'll do it but not always the case. You have to use top down problem solving determination. Just like computers. RAM, Problem determination. I saw a flowchart from engine electrical diagnosis epiphany right now. lol. Kids these days. I wanna Ls1 ,rawr. I want to drift! and be like my heroes. But dont' now squat about simple analog electrical. We arent talking firmware or Canbus. Reading this thread theres alot of bad troubleshooting. Yes the relays go out....why? because it's not SSR solid state relays. Look up vishay and other semiconductor website. The things can be switched on 100k times before failure. MTBF. But mechanized relays die because coils in there get struck with arc of electromagnetism.
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Old 09-17-2016, 11:57 PM   #46
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S13 Intermittent Starting problems

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Originally Posted by jumboflan View Post
yes that'll do it but not always the case. You have to use top down problem solving determination. Just like computers. RAM, Problem determination. I saw a flowchart from engine electrical diagnosis epiphany right now. lol. Kids these days. I wanna Ls1 ,rawr. I want to drift! and be like my heroes. But dont' now squat about simple analog electrical. We arent talking firmware or Canbus. Reading this thread theres alot of bad troubleshooting. Yes the relays go out....why? because it's not SSR solid state relays. Look up vishay and other semiconductor website. The things can be switched on 100k times before failure. MTBF. But mechanized relays die because coils in there get struck with arc of electromagnetism.


Actually, I added a whole new relay, originally this was auto to manual swap so no relay to begin with like blue one pictured above in manual models , it's a straight shot from the battery through the ignition to the starter solenoid. I Started with checking the starter wiring which always showed 12v when key was turned, replaced starter, cleaned/replaced grounds and power wires, on to the ignition and ignition switch and installing a whole new ignition and lastly when all failed, wired in a relay and it fixed the issue. How's that bad troubleshooting?


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Old 09-18-2016, 11:10 AM   #47
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Please advise because im in the same situation sentradude. auto swapped, getting 12v through to starter wire but when starter wire is reconnected, no start no crank only a click, but sometimes rarely it will start or start after 1 second of holding the key turned. This is on zenki
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Old 09-18-2016, 02:08 PM   #48
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..........
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Old 12-10-2016, 09:39 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentradude View Post
For anyone interested - the last fix did not work.
This weekend I went ahead an installed a relay in the engine fuse box area. Basically, instead of the starter getting signal through the ignition/key, it is now getting juice directly from battery source through the relay while using the ignition as signal for the relay. If this fails, the only thing that will be left is replacing the ignition wire in the body wiring harness.. I am hoping that this has fixed it. Will post update in a couple of weeks.
I'm in for a wiring tutorial on how you did it exactly. My "fix" turned out to be a band-aid.
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Old 12-13-2016, 08:18 PM   #50
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UGH...I really need to get this done!! Installing a relay fixes this issue completely! I think I can get this write-up done during the Christmas/New Years holidays.
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Old 12-13-2016, 08:28 PM   #51
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UGH...I really need to get this done!! Installing a relay fixes this issue completely! I think I can get this write-up done during the Christmas/New Years holidays.
Good luck. I did the bypass the same. Wiring the relay is easy and it was the only thing that fixed it long term.


I do have a theory too, i am wondering if the ignition and all the aftermarket electronics, like gauges, e boost controllers and the stereo, share a common 12v ignition signal. I'm wondering if that could reduce the current enough to drop below an acceptable amount to energize the starter solenoid.
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Old 01-29-2017, 09:17 PM   #52
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Sorry everyone interested , I don't know when I will have time to actually do a write up but here is the bypass wiring in short:

You will need a relay and wire it per below ; You will need to locate the large black/white wire in the fuse box next to the battery, this is the starter wire running from your ignition (please make sure to verify with volt meter before cutting any wires!!) this wire will be cut and spliced into the relay..

86 = Signal Wire FROM ignition (Black/White)
30 = 12V+ From battery (New Wire)
85 = Ground to body (New Wire)
87 = Signal wire TO starter (Black/White)

This will provide a new 12V signal to the starter, basically strengthening the worn/out wire from the ignition. PM me with any questions, One day I will write this up with photos..

Last edited by sentradude; 01-29-2017 at 11:20 PM..
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Old 01-29-2017, 10:51 PM   #53
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Pin 86:
The black/white wire is being cut in half and the lead coming from the ignition tying into the relay?

Pin 87:
Will the original black/yellow wire be completely disconnected from the starter or is it going to be left intact and attach the new wire to it at the starter?
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Old 01-29-2017, 11:11 PM   #54
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Quote:
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Pin 86:
The black/white wire is being cut in half and the lead coming from the ignition tying into the relay?
This is correct, the lead from the ignition is connected to pin 86.
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Pin 87:
Will the original black/yellow wire be completely disconnected from the starter or is it going to be left intact and attach the new wire to it at the starter?
Thinking again, I cleaned up the wires and eliminated some extra plugs that's why I connected directly to the starter black/yellow wire, this won't be the case for most..

PIN 87 correction: other side of black/white wire left from splicing to pin 86.
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Old 11-22-2018, 06:56 PM   #55
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What guage wire did you use?
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Old 11-23-2018, 02:27 AM   #56
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Old 01-03-2019, 01:21 AM   #57
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Dammit, spill the beans (now)
He did read post 52
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:58 PM   #58
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Relay wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by sentradude View Post
Sorry everyone interested , I don't know when I will have time to actually do a write up but here is the bypass wiring in short:

You will need a relay and wire it per below ; You will need to locate the large black/white wire in the fuse box next to the battery, this is the starter wire running from your ignition (please make sure to verify with volt meter before cutting any wires!!) this wire will be cut and spliced into the relay..

86 = Signal Wire FROM ignition (Black/White)
30 = 12V+ From battery (New Wire)
85 = Ground to body (New Wire)
87 = Signal wire TO starter (Black/White)

This will provide a new 12V signal to the starter, basically strengthening the worn/out wire from the ignition. PM me with any questions, One day I will write this up with photos..
Can this fix be done at the steering column instead of the engine bay?
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:51 PM   #59
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Can this fix be done at the steering column instead of the engine bay?


Hi, I don’t see why you couldn’t but it’s really much easier to do it in the engine bay with access to 12v and grounds right near the battery. Otherwise you will need to run a 12v to the relay near the steering column and hope that the wire from ignition to starter doesn’t have any other issues!


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Old 02-09-2019, 07:23 AM   #60
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What guage wire?

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Hi, I don’t see why you couldn’t but it’s really much easier to do it in the engine bay with access to 12v and grounds right near the battery. Otherwise you will need to run a 12v to the relay near the steering column and hope that the wire from ignition to starter doesn’t have any other issues!


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My battery is relocated to the trunk. What guage wire did you use for the power and ground?
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