Whats up with the different front 95-98 control arm bushings.. - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Kingtal0n · 03-05-2018, 09:30 PM

My front control arm bushings appear to be gone.

So I went on ebay and found this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Prothane-14...haX~1L&vxp=mtr

But of course I kept looking. I mean who buys the cheapest first thing they see right?
And I see

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suspension-...FaHbA5&vxp=mtr

Why does one look hard shell, What exactly am I pressing on? I push the bushing out then push the new one in? that doesnt sound right.

I've never messed with suspension much, this would be my first time removing a control arm of any kind.

And then I saw this
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/e...5/nissan/240sx

Why don't those look the same?

z31andrew · 03-06-2018, 11:49 AM

the bushings that have an outer "sleeve" are OEM Nissan style bushings. Those are in the same orientation as the factory bushings on your car now. If you buy an energy suspension or prothane kit, that use urethane instead of rubber, you will need to retain the outer "sleeves" from your factory bushings and press in the urethane portion and inner sleeve from the new kit. That way there is no slop in your suspension, and you replaced the deteriorating rubber.

Kingtal0n · 03-08-2018, 09:41 PM

I need to push the old sleeves out to get the old rubber out right? Will it just come out easy or does it need "help" or burning I wonder?

thanks

gaz_moose · 03-09-2018, 07:27 AM

with the first (red) and last (black) buses you need to burn out the old rubber parts but leave the original metal outer part of the bush in place.

with the OEM style you have to press the whole lot out.

Kingtal0n · 03-09-2018, 09:42 AM

no way to do it without a torch?

LoSt180 · 03-10-2018, 07:47 AM

You'll need a torch to separate the bond between OEM rubber and the metal sleeve. The installation instructions on energy suspension website will apply to any of those rubber insert style bushings. The ones with a metal outer sleeve are OEM style an need a press to replace.

spooled240 · 03-10-2018, 11:46 AM

I just did mine with ES bushings and like a few others mentioned earlier, you retain the outer sleeve and remove the rubber part of the bushing. I bought a little torch kit from Lowes for $20 and burned them all out.

Kingtal0n · 03-10-2018, 02:55 PM

Oh a little torch will do it huh? I was just thinkin about that. I have a bunch of small torches for soldering so I guess that will be my first attempt.

Actually the bushing is so bad I bet it will crumble out for the most part.

thanks

spooled240 · 03-10-2018, 07:04 PM

It's actually a regular sized torch lol but "small" in size: https://www.lowes.com/pd/BernzOmatic...Kit/1000095816

It takes a little while to get the rubber to start burning, so give it a good torch for about 30-40 seconds.

Kingtal0n · 03-12-2018, 03:53 PM

I was able to get most of the rubber out by scraping with a screwdriver. My little torch didn't do much to it. I finished with sand paper. A spinning wire wheel would have been perfect but I didn't have one that small.

I recommend the following method if I was going to do this again:
Push out the old rubber and inner bolt sleeve the best you can, use force if necessary. I happened to have a press.
Scrape out the rubber a bit, just roughly with a screw driver or something
then use the proper sized wire wheel to finish the job.

In the places where I was able to reach with the wire wheel it scraped the rubber right off instantly to bare metal. So the wire wheel is the tool of choice IMO.
Not sure why they recommend burning it instead, that seems like a big mess for the average hobby guy VS the $9 electric drill at HF + proper sized wheel.

And dun dun dun it didn't fix my issue.

Here is what I've done:
Control rod bushings ES new
ball joints new
struts KYB new
strut mounts new
sikky sway bar new
TC rods (good rubber stock rod)
tie rods feel pretty tight

The symptom continues. When turning the wheel left and right while moving the front end makes a loud clunk as if something is loose. I am going to go under there and check every bolt pretty soon but I was wondering if you had any other ideas? Not great with suspension but it def feels like something is loose.

LoSt180 · 03-13-2018, 06:21 AM

The torch is only to heat them up enough to break the bond between the rubber and the metal outer sleeve. If you catch the bushings on fire, you're doing it wrong and need to back off the heat.

If your stock ones are toast, the bond might already be broken and you can just push the old ones out fairly easily.

Kingtal0n · 03-13-2018, 03:52 PM

yeah but my question is why use the fire at all when a little wire wheel takes the rubber right off in a split second? I mean it took off the rubber so fast it left scratches in the aluminum, the little cheap harbor freight wire wheel...

LoSt180 · 03-13-2018, 04:32 PM

If the bushings are still good, you won't be able to press them out easily. Heat will release the bond, press out, clean up with wire brush. Your bushings were trash, so you didn't need to do step 1.

spooled240 · 03-13-2018, 06:44 PM

The fire burns the rubber so it disintegrates and can be scraped out. Maybe your bushings were already getting hard to the point they were able to be removed with a wire wheel, but mine were resilient as hell to anything other than a drill bit or fire.

Also, I'd check your subframe studs for looseness.

Kingtal0n · 03-14-2018, 01:46 PM

thanks, yeah i mabout to go under there with a socket of every size and have my vengeance on this car

gaz_moose · 03-16-2018, 09:35 AM

I used to use the burn method because I would be polybushing a whole car, so I could set everything burning and leave them till they were all out.

03-05-2018, 09:30 PM	#1
Kingtal0n Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Florida Age: 41 Posts: 4,828 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	Whats up with the different front 95-98 control arm bushings.. My front control arm bushings appear to be gone. So I went on ebay and found this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Prothane-14...haX~1L&vxp=mtr But of course I kept looking. I mean who buys the cheapest first thing they see right? And I see https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suspension-...FaHbA5&vxp=mtr Why does one look hard shell, What exactly am I pressing on? I push the bushing out then push the new one in? that doesnt sound right. I've never messed with suspension much, this would be my first time removing a control arm of any kind. And then I saw this https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/e...5/nissan/240sx Why don't those look the same? __________________ 5.3/4l80e/turbo 240sx playthrough: tinyurl.com/4l80er

03-06-2018, 11:49 AM	#2
z31andrew Zilvia Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Orange, CA Age: 30 Posts: 184 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	the bushings that have an outer "sleeve" are OEM Nissan style bushings. Those are in the same orientation as the factory bushings on your car now. If you buy an energy suspension or prothane kit, that use urethane instead of rubber, you will need to retain the outer "sleeves" from your factory bushings and press in the urethane portion and inner sleeve from the new kit. That way there is no slop in your suspension, and you replaced the deteriorating rubber.

03-08-2018, 09:41 PM	#3
Kingtal0n Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Florida Age: 41 Posts: 4,828 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	I need to push the old sleeves out to get the old rubber out right? Will it just come out easy or does it need "help" or burning I wonder? thanks

03-09-2018, 07:27 AM	#4
gaz_moose Zilvia Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: engerland Posts: 242 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	with the first (red) and last (black) buses you need to burn out the old rubber parts but leave the original metal outer part of the bush in place. with the OEM style you have to press the whole lot out.

03-09-2018, 09:42 AM	#5
Kingtal0n Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Florida Age: 41 Posts: 4,828 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	no way to do it without a torch?

03-10-2018, 07:47 AM	#6
LoSt180 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: May 2013 Location: MD Posts: 1,049 Trader Rating: (18) Feedback Score: 18 reviews	You'll need a torch to separate the bond between OEM rubber and the metal sleeve. The installation instructions on energy suspension website will apply to any of those rubber insert style bushings. The ones with a metal outer sleeve are OEM style an need a press to replace.

03-10-2018, 11:46 AM	#7
spooled240 Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 4,203 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	I just did mine with ES bushings and like a few others mentioned earlier, you retain the outer sleeve and remove the rubber part of the bushing. I bought a little torch kit from Lowes for $20 and burned them all out.

03-10-2018, 02:55 PM	#8
Kingtal0n Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Florida Age: 41 Posts: 4,828 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	Oh a little torch will do it huh? I was just thinkin about that. I have a bunch of small torches for soldering so I guess that will be my first attempt. Actually the bushing is so bad I bet it will crumble out for the most part. thanks

03-10-2018, 07:04 PM	#9
spooled240 Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 4,203 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	It's actually a regular sized torch lol but "small" in size: https://www.lowes.com/pd/BernzOmatic...Kit/1000095816 It takes a little while to get the rubber to start burning, so give it a good torch for about 30-40 seconds.

03-12-2018, 03:53 PM	#10
Kingtal0n Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Florida Age: 41 Posts: 4,828 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	I was able to get most of the rubber out by scraping with a screwdriver. My little torch didn't do much to it. I finished with sand paper. A spinning wire wheel would have been perfect but I didn't have one that small. I recommend the following method if I was going to do this again: Push out the old rubber and inner bolt sleeve the best you can, use force if necessary. I happened to have a press. Scrape out the rubber a bit, just roughly with a screw driver or something then use the proper sized wire wheel to finish the job. In the places where I was able to reach with the wire wheel it scraped the rubber right off instantly to bare metal. So the wire wheel is the tool of choice IMO. Not sure why they recommend burning it instead, that seems like a big mess for the average hobby guy VS the $9 electric drill at HF + proper sized wheel. And dun dun dun it didn't fix my issue. Here is what I've done: Control rod bushings ES new ball joints new struts KYB new strut mounts new sikky sway bar new TC rods (good rubber stock rod) tie rods feel pretty tight The symptom continues. When turning the wheel left and right while moving the front end makes a loud clunk as if something is loose. I am going to go under there and check every bolt pretty soon but I was wondering if you had any other ideas? Not great with suspension but it def feels like something is loose.

03-13-2018, 06:21 AM	#11
LoSt180 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: May 2013 Location: MD Posts: 1,049 Trader Rating: (18) Feedback Score: 18 reviews	The torch is only to heat them up enough to break the bond between the rubber and the metal outer sleeve. If you catch the bushings on fire, you're doing it wrong and need to back off the heat. If your stock ones are toast, the bond might already be broken and you can just push the old ones out fairly easily.

03-13-2018, 03:52 PM	#12
Kingtal0n Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Florida Age: 41 Posts: 4,828 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	yeah but my question is why use the fire at all when a little wire wheel takes the rubber right off in a split second? I mean it took off the rubber so fast it left scratches in the aluminum, the little cheap harbor freight wire wheel...

03-13-2018, 04:32 PM	#13
LoSt180 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: May 2013 Location: MD Posts: 1,049 Trader Rating: (18) Feedback Score: 18 reviews	If the bushings are still good, you won't be able to press them out easily. Heat will release the bond, press out, clean up with wire brush. Your bushings were trash, so you didn't need to do step 1.

03-13-2018, 06:44 PM	#14
spooled240 Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 4,203 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	The fire burns the rubber so it disintegrates and can be scraped out. Maybe your bushings were already getting hard to the point they were able to be removed with a wire wheel, but mine were resilient as hell to anything other than a drill bit or fire. Also, I'd check your subframe studs for looseness.

03-14-2018, 01:46 PM	#15
Kingtal0n Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Florida Age: 41 Posts: 4,828 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	thanks, yeah i mabout to go under there with a socket of every size and have my vengeance on this car

03-16-2018, 09:35 AM	#16
gaz_moose Zilvia Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: engerland Posts: 242 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I used to use the burn method because I would be polybushing a whole car, so I could set everything burning and leave them till they were all out.