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Old 11-19-2014, 04:18 PM   #1
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Opinions on Most Streetable LSD?

So I'm considering purchasing a LSD for my S14 soon but I've heard a lot of mixed opinions on getting one. I wanted to make a thread with definitive information about them. I'm starting to think it's a matter of opinion but there has to be a threshold somewhere right?

From what I collect,there were conflicting opinions on whether or not to shim a VLSD, some say that's too aggressive.

Some people said get a diff with adjustable breakaway settings like a KAAZ and set it to around 70 ft-lbs of breakaway torque.

I read not to get a 2-way diff for daily driving but someone else said that they think 2-way diffs are better and that 1.5-way diffs are made for inexperienced drivers? I don't think the latter is true to be honest but I wanted to hear some opinions.

Also, as far as differential oil should one just ask the manufacturer of the differential for best thickness or is there a recommended thickness for all aftermarket differentials?

People at my college autoshop keep recommending I weld my diff but I'm really not trying to do that as this is my daily driver lol. I'm also looking for maximum reliability.
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Old 11-19-2014, 04:35 PM   #2
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I'm going to provide input on this...as I just literally about a month ago ask a similar question to numerous of members on this forum AND I made a thread in the tech section.

What we need to first clarify is, what do you mean by "most streetable"

For me:

Streetable = can be daily driven without extra "work" on the driver OR severe lost in "comfort" in various of conditions and circumstances (weather, roads i.e). *work & comfort is also subjective

Anyways, before the most "streetable" question can be answer, you also need to ask what is your goals? Is it a street drift car? is it going to see more DD than drift? more drift than DD? are you circuit lapping?

Because in my opinion, this is the most crucial information needed before you a decision can be made. I have a VLSD (I love driving spirited on the freeways) but I have recently acquired an welded diff that needs to be reinforced (my thread is in the tech section, ill post it in a minute) and I got the welded because I'm ready to take the next step in improving my drifting. I was going to save up for a 2 way to do it the right way, but a welded for $50 and with the diff in amazing condition...I couldn't pass it up lol. I'm getting ready to install it in the coming days to test it. So I can possibly provide some input as a newbie to welders when I drop out my VLSD

But there is tons of other guys on here who has experience in welders and LSD, so hopefully they chime in. Oh yea my car is a DD also, so we are in the same boat.
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Old 11-19-2014, 04:58 PM   #3
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vlsd would be the best for the street... 2 way is not that bad but it definitely changes the cars characteristics. locking on decel etc.
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Old 11-19-2014, 04:58 PM   #4
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completely silent + maintenance free = S15 HLSD

streetable + change oil every 15-30k miles of normal driving = KAAZ or Cusco

loud as shit but locks up tighter than a pair of your sisters jeans = ATS 2 way

almost silent + change oil every 15-30k miles + EXPENSIVE = Carbonetics 2 way
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:03 PM   #5
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZLF3AVSkUI

I think my reaction should give you an idea.
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:14 PM   #6
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I totally <3 my S15 HLSD never been happier... very different than a clutch type in that it never locks, it just transfers torque, but for daily driving and occasional spirited driving or drifting, its perfect!
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HORShi
what is your goals? Is it a street drift car? is it going to see more DD than drift? more drift than DD? are you circuit lapping?
This is the only car I drive and I drive it every day. I do some street drifting, usually in wide open areas near my house. But not much because my motor's burning oil and I'm still learning. Don't want to get over zealous and crash my daily or god forbid get caught up because I stay at a spot too long. I'm not a bad driver it's just getting used to this whole idea of initiating with the handbrake is taking me a little while. I usually would initiate by revmatching to about 4000 rpm into 2nd gear from 3rd and using weight transfer to break the tires loose then just steer and play with the gas. I think I like using the e-brake alot better to intiate though from the few times I said fuck it and let it rip lol.

To answer your question more directly it is my daily driver that gets thorough use and occasionally goes on trips up to 500 miles round trip. I also enjoy thrashing it around stop signs and what not while I'm getting the handle on keeping the car controlled in a drift. I just make sure not to push my limits too far, if you or anyone else thinks that I'm stupid and should take it to a track I don't really care lol I've heard it all before. I also enjoy being able to handle well through curves so the HLSD that has been mentioned is appealing but not if I can't lock up my wheels and slide! I think I would rather get the hang of driving a car that can lose traction on hard acceleration and deceleration and will grip and push you through the curves still at a moderate throttle. Moreso than a car with HLSD should it have no means of locking the wheels but can handle through curves extremely well, which it clearly can aha.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13 View Post
I totally <3 my S15 HLSD never been happier... very different than a clutch type in that it never locks, it just transfers torque, but for daily driving and occasional spirited driving or drifting, its perfect!
I was considering a Helical diff as well but I heard that they're I quote "absolute trash for drifting" and that it's near impossible to slide on them. If that's not true my decision may be leaning towards HLSD over clutch type LSD.

Also, thanks for the list of options earlier it clarified a lot of points I was confused about.
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:51 PM   #8
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I agree with above..I've heard the s15 helical was good for road racing and street but suck for drifting..is like to hear what you guys have about it
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:13 PM   #9
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I run helicals on all my cars - IMO, the best LSD money can buy.

VLSD is cheap and good. Only drawback I recall was that it slips a tiny bit before it actually engages, but for a street car they work and work well. No maintenance.

HLSD is just superior, it works like magic and the rear stays planted. They're also pretty indestructible and require no maintenance. Be warned though, if you attempt to do the S15 HLSD upgrade be prepared to buy the whole parts list: HLSD + output shafts + nismo ring gear bolts. If you're a cheap fuck you can sleeve the bolts.

Clutch type would be for competition use. Clutch discs require servicing.
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfxi View Post
I run helicals on all my cars - IMO, the best LSD money can buy.

VLSD is cheap and good. Only drawback I recall was that it slips a tiny bit before it actually engages, but for a street car they work and work well. No maintenance.

HLSD is just superior, it works like magic and the rear stays planted. They're also pretty indestructible and require no maintenance. Be warned though, if you attempt to do the S15 HLSD upgrade be prepared to buy the whole parts list: HLSD + output shafts + nismo ring gear bolts. If you're a cheap fuck you can sleeve the bolts.

Clutch type would be for competition use. Clutch discs require servicing.
Ever lock up your rear wheels with that HLSD?
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:05 PM   #11
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I had a nismo 1.5 way clutch type in my RB S13. I loved it. It clunked a little but was absolutely not a problem as a daily driver. If you're drifting I would say just go for a clutch type, you might as well.
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfxi View Post
be prepared to buy the whole parts list: HLSD + output shafts + nismo ring gear bolts.
Hey Mike,

Did you use the s15 pumpkin? I have heard controversial statements whether this diff fits into an s14 pumpkin.

Thanks man
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuckeyOG View Post
I was considering a Helical diff as well but I heard that they're I quote "absolute trash for drifting" and that it's near impossible to slide on them. If that's not true my decision may be leaning towards HLSD over clutch type LSD.
I have zero issues sliding the rear end of my car out. Mind you an HLSD is NOT a locking diff so it wont carry like a clutch type diff will... but if youre building a reliable street driven car and want an LSD that will NEVER wear out, HLSD is the way to go. VLSDs are getting old and cannot be rebuilt. VLSDs also stop working after too much heat is built up, the viscous fluid has to cool down again as its viscosity and friction wear out at very high temps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by angel mkiv View Post
I agree with above..I've heard the s15 helical was good for road racing and street but suck for drifting..is like to hear what you guys have about it
again, no complaints on my end... but im not trying to ride the wall in 4th gear. my cars ass end gets out just fine, leaves 2 clearly visible tire marks when doing donuts and handles anything i push to it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfxi View Post
I run helicals on all my cars - IMO, the best LSD money can buy.

Be warned though, if you attempt to do the S15 HLSD upgrade be prepared to buy the whole parts list: HLSD + output shafts + nismo ring gear bolts. If you're a cheap fuck you can sleeve the bolts.
OEM S13/S14 open diff bolts work just fine as long as theyre torqued down to factory specs and the ring gear is tightened evenly. same as torquing down your wheels, just gotta do it in a star pattern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuckeyOG View Post
Ever lock up your rear wheels with that HLSD?
HLSDs dont lock. They transfer torque between the wheels with the most grip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KravingAKouki View Post
Did you use the s15 pumpkin? I have heard controversial statements whether this diff fits into an s14 pumpkin.
R200 rear ends are R200 rear ends, there are no compatibility issues. S15 diff will fit just fine an S14 pumpkin. S15 pumpkin is just an small evolution of the S14 pumpkin. I think Nissan just added a spot for the speed sensor as it was moved from the tranny to the diff.
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13 View Post
OEM S13/S14 open diff bolts work just fine as long as theyre torqued down to factory specs and the ring gear is tightened evenly. same as torquing down your wheels, just gotta do it in a star pattern.
Another crucial step is cleaning out the threaded holes of the ring gear thoroughly. They are always gunked up with old loctite and oil. Once cleaned, apply fresh loctite to bolts and tighten in an even star pattern with an impact gun that can handle the job. FSM states 98-112 ft/lbs of torque on the ring gear bolts.
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Old 11-19-2014, 10:25 PM   #15
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I had an s15 HLSD...it wasn't my favorite as far as "drift novelty" but it was very consistant with what it did, and it was veeeeeery smooth for an "old" nissan diff. Way more reliable than the average VLSD that I can't even get to lock up half the time.
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:18 AM   #16
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Informative thread! Not an LSD, per se, but I daily drove on a welded diff for around 2 years and had no issues.

I'm not trying to bring up the whole welded diff debate that usually stems from this but just some food for thought if you're tight on cash and can't make the leap to a nice LSD. I'll keep it short but keep in mind that in daily use from a responsible driver, you will actually understeer more than oversteer with a welded. A lot of people are under the impression dailying a welded is an impossible feat to do. PM me if you have more questions or just search, welded diff discussion has been talked over and over again. I'm level-headed and will answer any questions you have about it.
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuckeyOG View Post
This is the only car I drive and I drive it every day. I do some street drifting, usually in wide open areas near my house. But not much because my motor's burning oil and I'm still learning. Don't want to get over zealous and crash my daily or god forbid get caught up because I stay at a spot too long. I'm not a bad driver it's just getting used to this whole idea of initiating with the handbrake is taking me a little while. I usually would initiate by revmatching to about 4000 rpm into 2nd gear from 3rd and using weight transfer to break the tires loose then just steer and play with the gas. I think I like using the e-brake alot better to intiate though from the few times I said fuck it and let it rip lol.

To answer your question more directly it is my daily driver that gets thorough use and occasionally goes on trips up to 500 miles round trip. I also enjoy thrashing it around stop signs and what not while I'm getting the handle on keeping the car controlled in a drift. I just make sure not to push my limits too far, if you or anyone else thinks that I'm stupid and should take it to a track I don't really care lol I've heard it all before. I also enjoy being able to handle well through curves so the HLSD that has been mentioned is appealing but not if I can't lock up my wheels and slide! I think I would rather get the hang of driving a car that can lose traction on hard acceleration and deceleration and will grip and push you through the curves still at a moderate throttle. Moreso than a car with HLSD should it have no means of locking the wheels but can handle through curves extremely well, which it clearly can aha.
Man, trust me...idk about anyone else, but you will NEVER hear from me at least "your stupid, take it to the track, blah blah blah blah" lol. I love the street myself too much (especially my current city's new looping freshly paved freeway system )

All that matters if your being responsible, not trying go FnF Tokyo Drift and attempt to be sliding in the middle of traffic like pretending to be the DK, and not putting any bystanders in harms way, other than that, learning on the street is good. Of course it may not give you track etiquette or whatever, but you will learn to adapt to unpredictable changes and learn to be more aware of things.

But anyways back on topic, more or less you sound like me and the direction I'm heading with my car. I'm currently in the process of building a street "spirited" DD drift car per se. I love drifting, but I love freeway running (and no not street racing) also.

I believe in your case to sum it up, you should check out a welder or opt out for a 1.5 way (if your budget allows)? I know a lot of guys have mention the Helical, I have not experience nor knowledge so I can't help you with that, but I have been in a 1.5 way that hot laps on the circuit and seen tons of welders. I truly don't think driving a welded daily is as bad as people made them out to be. I think most people just don't want do the extra work, pay extra attention to what they're doing and drive even more defensive on daily. lol. (which is good actually)

EDIT: Since you do drive 300+ miles occasional round trips. One thing to keep in mind, a clutch type LSD needs to be service sooner or later and needs it's oil change more often the others. If your looking for up-most reliability, to be sincerely honest, I think the welded would probably be the most reliable IF AND ONLY IF IT'S WELDED PROPERLY. You don't have to worry about no servicing or anything, just change oil maybe if you feel like it. The HLSD based on the other's responses sounds also the same. Essentially it sounds like these two would be the best picks for your application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaddock View Post
Informative thread! Not an LSD, per se, but I daily drove on a welded diff for around 2 years and had no issues.

I'm not trying to bring up the whole welded diff debate that usually stems from this but just some food for thought if you're tight on cash and can't make the leap to a nice LSD. I'll keep it short but keep in mind that in daily use from a responsible driver, you will actually understeer more than oversteer with a welded. A lot of people are under the impression dailying a welded is an impossible feat to do. PM me if you have more questions or just search, welded diff discussion has been talked over and over again. I'm level-headed and will answer any questions you have about it.
^^^StuckeyOG, bmaddock has a video on his IG of him driving very spirited in the mountains of Virginia with a welded I believe? It can be done for sure, of course it will never give you optimal grip as a LSD/HLSD/VLSD, but it can be done. If I find it Ill post it.
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:43 AM   #18
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Silent and maintenance free/reliable = welded.
DDing a welded is barely noticeable ESPECIALLY if you DD a 240.
Aside from tire screams.
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuckeyOG View Post
Ever lock up your rear wheels with that HLSD?
As dorki said, a helical differential is not a locking differential. Its a torque sensing differential. If my understanding is correct, when one side slips it applies the percentage of the slip to the opposing wheel.

There are a lot of white papers out there that you can read. Google information on the TORSEN brand differentials (or QUAIFE) and you will find more than enough information on how these gems work. These differentials come stock on numerous high performance applications from Supra Turbo, Mustang Cobra, McLaren F1, Miata, Audi Quatro, etc. I thought it was interesting that McLaren current 12C does not have a limited slip diff. From what I gather its all managed with fancy electronics. Still, I prefer mechanical. If you ever look at the insides the helical gears remind me of a nice precision watch. I still think its all voodoo magic.

here are a couple links:
http://torsen.info/files/Torsen%20T-...al%20Sheet.pdf
http://torsen.info/files/Torsen%20T-...al%20Sheet.pdf
http://torsen.info/files/Torsen%20Pe...al%20Sheet.pdf

If you guys need a source for used JDM differentials, contact Gordon @ DUAX MACHINE. He's the man.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KravingAKouki View Post
Did you use the s15 pumpkin? I have heard controversial statements whether this diff fits into an s14 pumpkin.
As others have said, the S13/S14 R200 pumpkin (outer casings) are identical, the rear cover is whats different. The S15 exterior is different as its a variation that has the speed sensor provision - so you do not use the pumpkin, you ONLY use the following parts from the S15: HLSD internal, output shafts, ring gear bolts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13 View Post
OEM S13/S14 open diff bolts work just fine as long as theyre torqued down to factory specs and the ring gear is tightened evenly. same as torquing down your wheels, just gotta do it in a star pattern.
As you wish, gangster. I cant understand how anyone would want to install a bolt with an undersized shoulder in a critical application like a differential. Congratulations, you saved 80 dollars? Dunno. At least DEF used some small shim inserts to fill the gap. Still, NISSAN sells the bolts - we can still buy the bolts.

People who skimp out on shit like this just blow my mind.
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Old 11-20-2014, 10:31 AM   #20
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A torsen is perfect for the street and light snow. Just don't track on one.
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Old 11-20-2014, 11:17 AM   #21
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+1 for Gordon @ DUAX machine. He sells on ebay frequently but you can contact him off ebay and he'll still sell you one.

Between both my cars I've had 3 helicals and for the money they can't be beat.

However, I prefer clutch type diffs because they're more linear and don't transfer power back and forth. For daily driving it doesn't matter at all, but for autox especially it becomes a distraction and it's harder to place the car.

As far as my diff preference, OS Giken are the smoothest diffs I've driven (and now I have one in each s13) and work beautifully. No clunks, pops, skittered tires, or any of the typical clutch type behavior. Plus, they have a 20k km fluid change interval, though the fluid is expensive as hell. But I suspect the fluid is a big reason the diffs are so unbelievably smooth given the mount of friction modifier in it.
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:51 PM   #22
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As dorki said, a helical differential is not a locking differential. .... These differentials come stock on numerous high performance applications from Supra Turbo, Mustang Cobra, McLaren F1, Miata, Audi Quatro, etc.....
One of these is not like the others lol.
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:13 PM   #23
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Plus, they have a 20k km fluid change interval, though the fluid is expensive as hell. But I suspect the fluid is a big reason the diffs are so unbelievably smooth given the mount of friction modifier in it.
with clutch based diffs, fluid plays the BIGGEST role in how the acts/sounds. usually the fluids offered by the manufacturer itself are formulated to keep sound down as well as extending the life of the clutch plates inside since the fluid is specifically formulated for that particular diff. if you dont want to spend $80 per change on KAAZ, Cusco, ATS, OS Giken etc diff fluids, redline and royal purple work very well as an alternative.

friction modifier can be a bad thing in clutch and torsen based diffs. before using a gear oil that you either add friction modifier to or has it included, you should check with the manufacturer prior to the gear oil change. friction modifier can actually burn the clutch plates out much faster.
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:18 PM   #24
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You're talking like I'm adding extra modifier. I just use OSG fluid, as prescribed by OSG.

Giken also states that their diffs don't need a break-in or rebuild.

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Due to the precision manufacturing, high-grade materials, and unique design, a break-in period nor rebuild is required for OS Giken LSD’s
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:54 PM   #25
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i was stating for general knowledge, not implication of what you were doing.
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Old 11-20-2014, 02:05 PM   #26
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As far as my diff preference, OS Giken are the smoothest diffs I've driven (and now I have one in each s13) and work beautifully. No clunks, pops, skittered tires, or any of the typical clutch type behavior. Plus, they have a 20k km fluid change interval, though the fluid is expensive as hell. But I suspect the fluid is a big reason the diffs are so unbelievably smooth given the mount of friction modifier in it.
This, I have a OS Giken in my hatch and it is very well mannered. I use regular gear oil with fiction modifier in mine since the OS Giken stuff is stupidly priced. I did find that a 2 way was a bit too aggressive for my taste on the road course though so I stepped down to a Nismo GT 1.5 way in my two tone. The Nismo GT is also pretty well mannered. IMHO the worst of the 2 ways are the older cheap Nismo diffs that everyone and their mother ran back in the day. Those seemed to lock well but were noisy as hell and I don't think they were serviceable either.
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Old 11-20-2014, 02:24 PM   #27
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You're talking like I'm adding extra modifier. I just use OSG fluid, as prescribed by OSG.

Giken also states that their diffs don't need a break-in or rebuild.
Wait so that extremely pricey OS Giken diff is a clutch type LSD that doesn't need rebuilding and is pretty much silent? Just very frequent fluid changes? I'm just debating if I want to go with something that requires such frequent fluid changes on my daily, my choice right now is between the OS Giken if I decide to ball out lol, a 1.5 way KAAZ, Cusco, or Nismo clutch type. Or a Quaiffe/S15 helical diff but I'm kind of skeptical about those at the moment lol.


I've heard talk of welded differentials causing broken axles and other complications which is the only reason I wouldn't get one despite the low budget and maintenance-free manner of them. I don't mind paying extra attention while driving, slowing down on turns, etc. It's just I don't want anything done improperly if it's going to cause problems later. Thanks for all the input on welded diffs though seems they're not as bad as I thought.
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Old 11-20-2014, 02:28 PM   #28
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12k mile interval isn't *that* frequent.

Yes it's silent.
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Old 11-20-2014, 02:32 PM   #29
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im gonna be blunt, dont do some ghetto ass shit and weld your diff, especially for daily driving. do it RIGHT the first time and buy an actual diff, be it 1 way HLSD or 1.5/2 way clutch type LSD. its one thing if youre building a car that is nothing but a drift mule to weld your diff... but i can tell you from experience, if you want something to work right the first time and LAST... do it RIGHT the first time!!!

PS: regardless of what people are saying about clutch type diffs... i daily drove mine for YEARS with NO issues. just occasionally change the gear oil and youre fine. if youre constantly beating on the diff via track/drifting then clutches will wear out after a few years worth of abuse... but if youre seeing light track duty, standard clutch packs will last your 5-7 years with interval gear oil changes. the reason we are suggesting the HLSD is that it NEVER wears out, for daily/spirited driving and light track duty theyre awesome and can be had very easily AND cheaply... usually around the price range of $500 for a complete one. aftermarket 1.5 and 2 ways will usually run past $1000 now. the S15 diffs also hold their price value IF you sell them with the proper output shafts... DO NOT BUY AN S15 HLSD WITHOUT THE S15 OUTPUT SHAFTS!!!! S15 OUTPUT SHAFTS ARE 30 SPLINE!!! EVERY OTHER DIFF NISSAN HAS MADE USES 29 SPLINE!!!
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Old 11-20-2014, 02:38 PM   #30
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Yeah, for the money s15 helical can't be beat. It's 1/3 the price of OSG and works great. No maintenance, no noise, nothing.

It wasn't until I went to r-comps that I wanted to upgrade.
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