The Future Automotive Thread

[ronmcdon]

I was never crazy about the IDX either.

Nissan in the past decade or so has the bad habit of creating a lot of publicity around performance cars without delivering.

Even if the IDX were to be released I have little faith it’s not going to end up being an SUV, fwd sentra 2-door, or something depressing. Not that exterior design is a big deal to me (beggars can’t be choosers with the lack of affordable options today), but the concept already looks dated not unlike other nissan designs.

Of course, it would have been totally welcome if things did work out.

[exitspeed]

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/17/...ylinder-model/

Would a 4cyl turbo Supra put an end to the 86? Tough to say but it would entirely come down to price. If it’s less than $10k more expensive I’d think it would totally cannibalize 86 sales.

This is the same discussion we’ve all been having about the next Z. Should there be multiple engines that covers the range of a Silvia and a Z?

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/17/...ylinder-model/

Would a 4cyl turbo Supra put an end to the 86? Tough to say but it would entirely come down to price. If it’s less than $10k more expensive I’d think it would totally cannibalize 86 sales.

This is the same discussion we’ve all been having about the next Z. Should there be multiple engines that covers the range of a Silvia and a Z?

the japanese have this horrible habit now of letting their sports cars stagnate! *ahem, GTR and Z*. of course sales on the 86 are crap, toyota and subaru have done nothing with the cars since their release. they REFUSED to listen to their customer (or potential customer) base and make a turbo charged version, they upped the HP a whopping 5hp when going to the USDM Toyota 86 aaaaaaand honestly, who wants to blow nearly $30k on one of the 86 twins when you can get SO much more car for the money from ford AND chevy?! if im gonna go blow $28k on a brand new RWD sports car, i want 4 cylinder, turbo and lots of neat options PLUS, TONS of factory backed and warrantied parts... so im gonna go head over to Ford and grab myself and ecoboost mustang. does toyota or subaru (or nissan or honda) offer any sort of meaningful and worthwhile upgrade packages from the factory? NOPE! do any of the JDM manufacturers bring out cars and let them stagnate until theyre parasitic to the companies portfolio? YEP! have the japanese brands lost everything that made them the driving forces they were in the 90s by introducing upgraded models meant for enthusiasts and sports car fans that want a Bluebird SSS with AWD and a turbo charged 2.0 liter? YES!!!

the new Supra looks an awful lot like the GT86... has done since they started showing it off. my guess is that the Supra MAY replace the GT86 altogether if Toyota is planning on releasing a turbo 4 to go along with the straight 6. makes sense. the GT86 is done. there was talk about toyota and subaru developing a second generation some time back, but honestly... it will most likely be the the same disappointing package we already have now and both companies will refuse to listen to their customer base by adding a much needed boost in power... unless the 4 cylinder Supra wears the GT86 badge instead of the supra badge.

its 2018... the 370z, the GTR and the GT86 are cute, but theyre all rotting corpses. the americans have completely taken over in terms of performance value! in 1992, 220hp was impressive out of a 4 cylinder sports car, but its 2018 and i would much rather myself a Mustang that outputs 310hp and has the potential of becoming a low 13/high 12 second car with just a few grand that is not only fast as shit, but reliable!

[jumpman2334]

I never thought I was agree with someone who was praising the new stangs but you seriously have a point. Toyota/Subaru really dropped the ball on the new 86. I can also look past the bmw powerplants in the mk5, but the lack of a manual is another big let down for me. I do also think the introduction of the mk5 will provide a nice out for the brz, I would be incredibly surprised if they made a second gen brz. it would just be a giant waste of money IMO.


btw, its been confirmed the supra will have a 4 cyl option. apparently other than the light-er front end, they are keeping all of the 2jz swappers in mind with the 4 cyl model.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ylinder-supra/

[Future240]

But according to Road & Track, the Supra will also have a turbocharged four-cylinder option, based on documents from ZF, the company that's making the transmissions for the Supra and Z4, and a confirmation from Tada to one of the outlet's editors. Road & Track also reports the engine will make 262 horsepower compared with the six-cylinder's 335 horsepower.

Sounds like 4 cyl swaps in the BRZ/FRS will be a thing. Damn these cars are basically new 240sx's.

Still, there are other potential hurdles for the 86, as our own Senior Editor Alex Kierstein points out. Sales of the Scion refugee 86 have never been great, and they've been on the decline as it gets older (2018 is its sixth year on the market).

Well no kidding. It is basically the same car since it debuted. Unless the put a FA20DIT in it they will continue to lag.

[[240sx]]

Originally Posted by Future240

Sounds like 4 cyl swaps in the BRZ/FRS will be a thing. Damn these cars are basically new 240sx's.

Engine swaps [x]
5x114.3 lug conversions [x]

... have their dash boards begun cracking yet?

[SimpleS14]

Not sure if this was posted already, but the patent drawings on the "CT5 Coupe" looks interesting.

https://jalopnik.com/cadillac-ct5-co...ngs-1827392305

Nice design riding on the same platform as the Camaro.

[exitspeed]

Yeah that Caddy coupe looks dope.

[ronmcdon]

I'm not sure the 4cycl Supra would cannibalize the 86's sales because I'm not sure we know enough about the Supra at this point.

Given the auto transmission only option, it may very well be more of a touring car like a smaller lexus lc500 than it is the older supra, which isn't too similar to the current 86 either.

I think the Z4 will be more of a tourer as well. The Z4 if anything may be more likely to have more overlap with bmw's lineup, given how it may sit between the 2, 4 series, and the M2 competition. But then again, in the past the Z3 seemed to have worked okay with the 3 series convertible (and the M coupe with the M3) with cannibalization.

Personally I don't think the current 86 is really that bad. It seems to hold up respectably against the nd miata, which I think is one of the best cars now. I would rather see the next 86, if it ever comes out, lose weight more than anything else.

[exitspeed]

^
I’d rather see a next gen 86 too. I don’t have a problem with it either. If they would JUST do a turbo option I fee like that car would boom in sales. It’s pretty much the only thing people complain about.

The lack of a manual option for the 4 cyl Supra is an issue. That seemed like an obvious way to attract us traditional enthusiasts. That’s what every other manufacturer is doing it seems like.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by Future240

Sounds like 4 cyl swaps in the BRZ/FRS will be a thing. Damn these cars are basically new 240sx's.

Well no kidding. It is basically the same car since it debuted. Unless the put a FA20DIT in it they will continue to lag.

I can't really consider the 86 with a BMW engine in it to be like a new 240sx or Silvia. Getting that combo to work is gonna be a lot of effort, unlike swapping an SR into a 240sx (because it was meant to be there. But I definitely would consider FA20DIT swapped 86s to be like the new 240s if that swap was straightforward and became a thing. But what WRX guys are letting go of their turbo FA engines? lol

Tada also remarked that, for the Supra owners who plan to swap in a 2JZ engine, "please buy the four-cylinder. It will be cheaper."

Damn, they're not even gonna try to pretend that the new BMW engines are better than a 2J, huh? lol

I had to go google these new engines, the B48 & B58... I had no idea BMW had axed the N20 & N55. It'll be interesting to see if the B58 is plagued with as many reliability problems as the N54/55.

[exitspeed]

Hey, check out this car I found on Cars.com: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...ff=share_other

Still love this car. Interior design flaws be damned.

[simmode1]

^^^Ditto on the kappa appreciation. I still feel a little crush on the Sky Redline too. They get shit on every time I mention them around here, but I think I'm going to go test drive one soon and find out for myself. Although their FB groups make me wanna slit my wrists from boredom. They know how to make power outta that Ecotec engine and that's about it. They rally the pitchforks if you mention anything that's actually cool.

But it also dawned on me... Why spend $7-10k on a Kappa or HR Z33/34, Genesis or 335i when you can get a C5 Vette for the same price? Then you don't have to same up for the inevitable LS swap... lol

[S14DB]

C5's look so dated compared to a c6 or c7. High millage to get that price range too.

[feito]

Originally Posted by simmode1

But it also dawned on me... Why spend $7-10k on a Kappa or HR Z33/34, Genesis or 335i when you can get a C5 Vette for the same price? Then you don't have to same up for the inevitable LS swap... lol

exactly. If it is performance per dollar you are looking for, I think c5's are hard to beat. People who swap v8's into their jdm cars seem to be looking for an easy way to gain and maintain performance, I don't see why they dont just get their swaps with their proper shells and call it a day.

[simmode1]

^^^Frfr. I'd love to see what some of the talented JDM/tuner car builders on this forum and around the web would do style-wise with a platform like the C5 or even the underrated Kappas...

Originally Posted by S14DB

C5's look so dated compared to a c6 or c7. High millage to get that price range too.

On a 240sx website talking about cars looking dated and high mileage...

[gbaby2089]

C5 will always look butt because of how low the front is at high ride heights.

To get the car to a halfway okay ride height you have to have the 40' long front overhang about an inch from the ground.

[exitspeed]

Yeah I’m all about the C6. Best looking modern Vette imo.

[simmode1]

Shit, i love just about every Corvette, IDGAF...lol.... Hell yes I'd rather have a C6, but I'm plenty OK on the C5 too. Tons of potential to work with there if you're looking to buy in that $10k price range.

Only got like $5k to spend? Z33/G35 all day.

[Malik]

I like both the c6 and the c7. Still trying to figure out what chevy is going to do next. Mid engine isn't really in spirit with the corvette.

Sent from my A727 using Tapatalk

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Malik

I like both the c6 and the c7. Still trying to figure out what chevy is going to do next. Mid engine isn't really in spirit with the corvette.

Sent from my A727 using Tapatalk

Or is it? They’ve technically been developing a mid engine Vette since the 70’s. They just never released one. It makes sense though because they have tapped that platform for all the performance they can.

I think it would be great if they kept both platforms. Keep the base Vette around $50k (no idea on how they name these) and then the mid engine Vette starts well over six figures.

[ronmcdon]

Agreed it would make sense to keep both platforms. I can’t see a lot of people realistically needing anything more than a c7 grand sport even as a track car.

I’d love a grand sport with barely any options. Even the z07 package with r compounds and carbon ceramics seem like overkill. If one can get a Grand Sport right around 60k after discounts, to me its a great deal.

What worries me most about the C8, if its the only corvette offered, is cost. I doubt its going to be modestly more pricey compared to the C7. Ive always though much of the appeal of the corvette was value for performance.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by simmode1

On a 240sx website talking about cars looking dated and high mileage...

He's talking about not having to do an LS swap if you buy a C5. Moot point if you are going to have to do a rebuild on the LS in it. Unless you get the mythical driven by an old lady one hour to church on Sundays.

[simmode1]

^^^Rebuilding an LS in its native chassis vs rebuilding AND swapping an LS into some random JDM chassis.... Hmmm... Hard choice...

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

Agreed it would make sense to keep both platforms. I can’t see a lot of people realistically needing anything more than a c7 grand sport even as a track car.

I’d love a grand sport with barely any options. Even the z07 package with r compounds and carbon ceramics seem like overkill. If one can get a Grand Sport right around 60k after discounts, to me its a great deal.

What worries me most about the C8, if its the only corvette offered, is cost. I doubt its going to be modestly more pricey compared to the C7. Ive always though much of the appeal of the corvette was value for performance.

GM has somehow been the king of performance value though over the last decade + with the Camaro and Vette. I’d think they fully know that they can’t have just a $200k mid engine Vette and that’s it. You would basically lose all those base Vette sales that hold the brand up. They sell more automatic Vettes (many many to women actually) that manual ones and I’d estimate that 95% of them never see a track.

But I do think GM wants to go after thto Ford GT. There’s zero chance it’s going to be as exotic looking though if they plan on keeping the cost down.

[ronmcdon]

It would seem like it's the reasonable thing to keep both the c7 and c8. That would be the best case scenario. A 2 car, corvette lineup would make perfect sense. Gm has said nothing about discontinuing the c7, or at least ive not heard of it.

What I would hate to see is for the C8 to replace the C7 entirely, and have the camaro be the only car slot beneath the C8.

Ha, I think the ZR-1 already stands to be a Ford GT killer.

[exitspeed]

Back during the Kappa Twins era there was discussion of a Vette sub brand for GM (obviously before they killed off Olds, Pontiac, Hummer etc) with a smaller “Vette” on the kappa platform with a V6 (assuming the 3.6) which I still think would have been awesome. Imagine one of those, a FR layout C7 and a Midengine C8?!?! Killer sports car line up.

[ronmcdon]

Corvette fully deserves it's own brand and it wouldn't hurt to distance itself a bit further away Chevy's more pedestrian models.

That would be great to have a 2 car lineup! If the C7 does eventually get replaced (I think it's on it's 6th year), I hope pricing will remain similar. It'd be nice to see the car get lighter if not smaller.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by simmode1

^^^Rebuilding an LS in its native chassis vs rebuilding AND swapping an LS into some random JDM chassis.... Hmmm... Hard choice...

Yeah, more OEM shit to remove to pull the motor.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by S14DB

Yeah, more OEM shit to remove to pull the motor.

That's one way to look at it. Either way, you're gonna be busy.