Bavarian Motor Works

[S14DB]

Here is the place to discuss how the 2002 is the best BMW ever made and the F30 is the worst.

[unwtdhero]

Takin' as an opinion, not as statement of fact

[J3123MY]

LOL. I got a piece of shit 1602... will those ever be worth something?

[GabeS14]

Nice this will be fun!

[vanish1]

haha love the first post


You can get an early gen X5 with a manual transmission from the factory, who else is doing that?!??!

only the peeps who when they need a work truck they make one out of a M car.



http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=509914

[usdm180sx]

Broke Motor Werke

[kingkilburn]

So. . . . Turbo 4, inline 6, or buttery smooth small displacement v8?

LET THE FLAMING BEGIN

[drift freaq]

Hmmm look at this. It's going to get weird quick. Lol

[DreamN]

lol first post nailed it perfectly

[vanish1]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

So. . . . Turbo 4, inline 6, or buttery smooth small displacement v8?

why only choose one??

2002 turbo or e21 w/ m10 build

the I6 go M30, S38, S52, or S54

then for the v8 go m62 in either a e39 touring or e34 touring

rocking a 850csi or 850ci v12 w/ 6 speed would be amusing as well

[drift freaq]

Truth be told 2002's were not the best. The Datsun 510 kicked its ass up and down the street for years on end. So the first post was sadly misguided. Now if he had said the E30 M3 or E36 M3 he would have been on point.

[vanish1]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Truth be told 2002's were not the best. The Datsun 510 kicked its ass up and down the street for years on end. So the first post was sadly misguided. Now if he had said the E30 M3 or E36 M3 he would have been on point.

2002 is the correct car for the initial post. The neue klasse range of cars that spawned during the era essentially brought BMW into its golden age. 2002, e9 coupe, 1800/2000 coupes/sedans.

its has the strongest following for BMW classics and is extremely iconic.

15 year production span from the 60s-70s, over 900,000 built, its the one classic BMW you will see show up at any meet or event, baby boomer gen loves them (and so does the new gen!)

e30 m3/e36 m3 too low of production #s to have the same on the ground impact the 2002 had.

andddddd the M10 which powered everythinnggggg back then was the basis for the s14 which is found in the e30 m3.....

love this vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZyWuXfQbxM

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by vanish1

2002 is the correct car for the initial post. The neue klasse range of cars that spawned during the era essentially brought BMW into its golden age. 2002, e9 coupe, 1800/2000 coupes/sedans.

its has the strongest following for BMW classics and is extremely iconic.

15 year production span from the 60s-70s, over 900,000 built, its the one classic BMW you will see show up at any meet or event, baby boomer gen loves them (and so does the new gen!)

e30 m3/e36 m3 too low of production #s to have the same on the ground impact the 2002 had.

andddddd the M10 which powered everythinnggggg back then was the basis for the s14 which is found in the e30 m3.....

love this vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZyWuXfQbxM

Sure it started everything and sold well. It does not make it the best and it was never viewed that way outside of BMW fandom .

Whereas as the E36 literally was voted the best car for ten years running and the E36 M3 was actually stated by many publications to be one of the best handling cars in the world. It also has the track wins to prove it. On the flip side sure the 2002 sold a lot but it gots its ass kicked on the track repeatedly.

Plain and simple. The opening statement was poorly written with the intention of setting off a debate. Let's just say S14DB is most likely snickering right now becuase he knew he was talking smack.
If he had siad is a thread about BMW's and their heritage started by the iconic 2002 it would have been absolutely correct.

Sure BMW started the Sport Sedan or saloon sports car segment with the 2002 but that does not automatically make it the best.
Nissan went and built the 510 and it just destroyed the 2002 in so many ways. The mistake Nissan made is not exactly sticking to the Formula like BMW did.

Oh and Nissan brought the formula back with the S and R chassis. In fact E36's and R/ S chassis rear suspensions are strangely alike. Had the R32 been a world car it would have compared equally to a E36 as well.

Yet none the less the opening statement is incorrect and inflammatory.

[vanish1]

the opening statement isnt as cut and dry as youre making it out to be, its not suppose to be.

one of the most loyal groups of BMW enthusiasts is the 2002 crowd, for them their heart beats for nothing else, you can not convince them otherwise.

Just like there are a whole new group of BMW enthusiasts who swear off all new BMWs because of eps, increased electronics, etc.

this is why although factually untrue the opening statement might be, its actually quite spot on in regards to the BMW scene

[GabeS14]

Alignements on this bitch is hell....
I could eye ball my alignement at home with the S14 and it would drive smooth...
loosen up one suspension arm on this thing and it drives like a snake on crack...lol


ps:
I wouldnt mind having an E30 and swapping an RB26...

[simmode1]

^^^Very nice. Loving it. Liberty Walk is making me want one more and more every day....

[simmode1]

Hey guys... I've been hearing all this talk about how great the E36 M3 is, but I'm wondering what the consensus is about a turbo E36 325i or 328i? Someone once told me they handled boost well, but I' haven't come across any info on the strength of the factory blocks and internals... I'm always on the lookout for good bang for you buck projects & this caught my eye... How would you merit a turbo 325i E36 build versus something like an S13 KA-T build? </p>

[kingkilburn]

When in doubt, throw an LS in it. lol

[drift freaq]

Honestly you can score E36 M3's for great prices now and the 95 engines were 86x85.5bore and stroke and 86.4x89.6 for 3.2 S52.
Which means they are very smooth revving machines. Now the other thing to keep in mind is all the tidbits you get on the M that is not on the stock E36's like limited slip diffs all different suspension arms , bigger stock swaybars etc...

If you are thinking non M do not bother with a 325 as they are dogs. The 328 on the other hand is an interesting compromise it's engine has the same bore and stroke as an SR! It also sports more torque than the 325 engine.

Though again 328's are later model and sell for only a thousand or two less than you can find M's for and right now you can buy M's for anywhere from $3500 and up depending on condition , title status etc..

Oh and one of the hot swaps to do if you have the money is an E46 M3 engine with ecu and harness as it's pretty much another 100 hp and puts the car on par with the E36 euro M3 which came with 321 hp stock.

Oh and any turbo kit or Supercharger setup is going to run anywhere from $2500 at the cheapest to $5k

The deal right now in the BMW world is indeed E36 M3's.

[vanish1]

Originally Posted by simmode1

Hey guys... I've been hearing all this talk about how great the E36 M3 is, but I'm wondering what the consensus is about a turbo E36 325i or 328i? Someone once told me they handled boost well, but I' haven't come across any info on the strength of the factory blocks and internals... I'm always on the lookout for good bang for you buck projects & this caught my eye... How would you merit a turbo 325i E36 build versus something like an S13 KA-T build?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ning-questions

good thread to answer your Qs

in regards to boost w/ ppl who have actual budgets, m50 or m52 is your best bet, theyre stupid cheap compared to the premium a S motor commands.

[vanish1]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

The deal right now in the BMW world is indeed E36 M3's.

+1 I cant imagine them bottoming out for too much longer before they go on the upswing

e34 M5 is also at its bottom pricing as well, too few built to remain where it is.

also seems like the e24 and e31 are bottoming out currently as well

[simmode1]

Great feedback, guys. I took a quick look at my local CL and saw that E36 M3's now go for about the same price one might expect for a well prepped S13 with a mild SR. Not bad.

Originally Posted by vanish1

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ning-questions

good thread to answer your Qs

in regards to boost w/ ppl who have actual budgets, m50 or m52 is your best bet, theyre stupid cheap compared to the premium a S motor commands.

Looks like an OBDI E36 328i is the way to go for a relatively inexpensive DIY turbo project. Sounds a little bit stronger than a KA-T on power production potential.

[vanish1]

yea np its fun

things to note w/ the e36 esp the m3 is the cooling system and suspension. they are perishable items on the car and knowing if they have been serviced or not is $$ saved or lost. Little things to note also, like if the tool kit is complete or how many keys are being sold w/ the car, $60 for a chipped key :0 otherwise

for example id rather have a e36 m3 w/ 160,000 miles on it w/ everything serviced vs one w/ 80,000 miles w/ nothing serviced.

find a 328 or 325 for the cheap, swap over m3 suspension and chassis reinforcement, lsd possible if its a s model or swap in guts, throw boost at it

bmwvin.com if you wanna see what options came w/ the car youre looking at.

[simmode1]

If i were to go the turbo E36 328i route, I would definitely cannibalize the M3 for anything that the aftermarket doesn't already do better.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Oh and any turbo kit or Supercharger setup is going to run anywhere from $2500 at the cheapest to $5k

Yeah, it certainly is more pricey than a KA-T setup... Worth factoring into considerations.

[gearhead55]

Anyone have experience with E39 M5s? I have lusted over them since learning to drive stick on my dad's 540i. Prices are now sub 20k. My main concern is the ridiculous maintenance costs.

They are just so bad ass, i've probably watched this video 100+ times over the last decade:

[vanish1]

Originally Posted by gearhead55

Anyone have experience with E39 M5s? I have lusted over them since learning to drive stick on my dad's 540i. Prices are now sub 20k. My main concern is the ridiculous maintenance costs.

Ive seen a few in the 10-12k range, they needed some lovin but the price of entry might be worth getting to join the club.

S62 is an impressive motor, a V8 with ITBs from the factory, so much win.

as long as all the electronics are in order then youre only going to be dealing with your scheduled suspension refreshing and engine maintenance.

[gearhead55]

Originally Posted by vanish1

Ive seen a few in the 10-12k range, they needed some lovin but the price of entry might be worth getting to join the club.

S62 is an impressive motor, a V8 with ITBs from the factory, so much win.

as long as all the electronics are in order then youre only going to be dealing with your scheduled suspension refreshing and engine maintenance.

I checked out one before i bought my NB, it was 10k and it was a fucking dog. All the clean ones seem to be going for about 20k, which honestly is not bad for the caliber of car it is. The price of cleaning these things up is so ridiculous i'd rather pick up a clean, low mileage one than something that needs lovin'.

Suspension wise i'll probably go coilovers and replace bushings at the same time. I'm just worried about VANOS maintenance.

[simmode1]

This thread desperately needs more pics. It is failing badly. C'mon guys. Post some inspiration.

[vanish1]

Originally Posted by gearhead55

I checked out one before i bought my NB, it was 10k and it was a fucking dog. All the clean ones seem to be going for about 20k, which honestly is not bad for the caliber of car it is. The price of cleaning these things up is so ridiculous i'd rather pick up a clean, low mileage one than something that needs lovin'.

Suspension wise i'll probably go coilovers and replace bushings at the same time. I'm just worried about VANOS maintenance.

well to be fair unless you get a ppi done and see a stack of receipts the 20k one might not be a better buy than the 10k one.

gotta work out the #s sometimes, 10k car with 10k in new parts might be a viable path.

and yeah it sucks when the VANOS is going but its one of those things where once its done and over with you dont gotta worry about it for a very long time.

either way good chance youre going to come out on top bc it will def become a collectors item with future appreciation happening.

[vanish1]

some personal pics ive snapped this past year: