Donald Trump For President

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by feito

Isn't calling someone a neo-nazi just as bad a calling someone the "G" or the "F" or the "N" word?
Anyway... I think this thread could put the forum at risk, or its traffic at least. I can come in here and disagree with a lot of your opinions and just disregard them for the rest of the forum, but I know that's not the case for everyone in here.
I saw someone calling somebody else a fascist or racist or something like that on his FS thread because of something that was said on this one.
Remember this is a car forum, dont let stuff from this thread spill onto others.

Originally Posted by Future240

No, a racial/sexual slur is not the same thing as a political insult.

Yep.

You choose to have terrible believes.
You don't choose your sexual orientation or race.

[RalliartRsX]

So here is where it stands. I have yet to call anyone names (libtard, asshole, idiot, etc), but they have been lobbed my direction on several ocassions

I have asked on more than one occasion throughout the thread
1) Why is it that you support trump. And the answer cannot be "better than Killary". I have requested legitimate reasons why one supports trump. Just why is he better than HRC??
2) I have asked on several occasions for someone to come up with proper reasons what makes HRC a terrible candidate, and not the talking points presented by Fox News. I gave one (she is somewhat disconnected from the normal blue collar voter)
3) I have asked people to cite proper sources on where they get information from (eg: he west came up with 90% of the inventions). I have gone as far as providing several sources that debunks a fair amount of news on what Fox News reports on. The response??

And what I have gotten on all occasions?? People refuse to cite proper sources, answer any of my questions or give proper reasons why they support trump. What I get is "I am taking my ball and going home" and "You are just some asshole libtard".

THIS is why we cannot have a proper discussion. Everyone wants to slander and when presented with real discussions, I get the above response.

Same thing with Obama. Why the hate?? He is the only president in modern history to not have a scandal attached to his name. Yes, he sucked when it came to healthcare (which I admitted several pages back), but he got us out of the 2008 recession

As long as we continue to live in our fantasy world and refuse to accept our own issues, problems and biases, the discussion is going to always degrade into shit slinging........

Originally Posted by Future240

No, a racial/sexual slur is not the same thing as a political insult.

Thank you immensely for this. I was waiting for someone to catch on to this.

I never called anyone a facist. What I said was his stance was borderline facist. Grossly different scenarios.

[Bushido]

Thought of that Kaijii Kurejiii Trampu Texan otaku kid or whatever when I saw this:

[lewisfk]

Damn yo, but Texas has so many active clan chapters its ridiculous! Its bad when I give my safety brief to 100 Sailors and have to mention this, and areas were there likely to be subjected to racsim. Its also not fun to tell young Sailors and Airmen that we have no clear guidance on DACA, but let's go to war! We will sort this detail out on the back end!

[VNG704]

Ralliartrsx, people arguing to win and not to understand. That's why these discussions go the way they do.

[simmode1]

Every. Damn. Day.

[mixeds14]

Originally Posted by simmode1

Every. Damn. Day.

I feel ur pain bro...

[FaLKoN240]

Thanks Obama

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/politi...ers/index.html

[Future240]

Originally Posted by FaLKoN240

Thanks Obama

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/politi...ers/index.html

Eh I'll cut Trump a break on this one. NK is always spouting off at the mouth with outrageous stuff.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by Future240

Eh I'll cut Trump a break on this one. NK is always spouting off at the mouth with outrageous stuff.

Right, that's to be expected from NK though. You wouldn't expect a US President to reciprocate in kind. It's like 2 nuclear capable children arguing. Both so eager to send other folks kids off to war.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by Future240

Eh I'll cut Trump a break on this one. NK is always spouting off at the mouth with outrageous stuff.

But that is NK. We had our chance to curtail their capability to enrich uranium in the Obama era, and we fell short. I need to go back and dig through why exactly we turned the other direction (I think it had something to do with Iran, but my memory is somewhat hazy in that regard).

Either way, that has been a NK stance for some time. For a standing president of the free world to state "We are willing to wipe them off the face of the planet", for someone so triggered like KJU, that is essentially a threat or declaration of war.

It's like a small kid seeing a small venomous snake in the corner and due to his size he keeps poking at it thinking "look at that pip squeek." Kid has no idea snake is venomous, then when the snake has had enough and strikes, kid is sent to the ER. Not life threatening is treated in time, but could potentially pivot into something that could forever cause issues.

trump is that kid.......

This is the perfect example of someone out of his swim lane in terms of foreign or........fuck it. This is a man with ZERO relations experience, be it foreign, domestic or otherwise.

All NK has to do is point a few missiles at Seoul and wipe 1/2 million people off the eart even before the US can mobilize, much less fire a single missile. And lets not forget, South Korea is an ally.......Sure that will go over well on both a national and the world stage. All because trump wants to measure dick sizes. Nothing else.

He can't explain that away with bribes........

[Future240]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

But that is NK. We had our chance to curtail their capability to enrich uranium in the Obama era, and we fell short. I need to go back and dig through why exactly we turned the other direction (I think it had something to do with Iran, but my memory is somewhat hazy in that regard).

Either way, that has been a NK stance for some time. For a standing president of the free world to state "We are willing to wipe them off the face of the planet", for someone so triggered like KJU, that is essentially a threat or declaration of war.

It's like a small kid seeing a small venomous snake in the corner and due to his size he keeps poking at it thinking "look at that pip squeek." Kid has no idea snake is venomous, then when the snake has had enough and strikes, kid is sent to the ER. Not life threatening is treated in time, but could potentially pivot into something that could forever cause issues.

trump is that kid.......

This is the perfect example of someone out of his swim lane in terms of foreign or........fuck it. This is a man with ZERO relations experience, be it foreign, domestic or otherwise.

All NK has to do is point a few missiles at Seoul and wipe 1/2 million people off the eart even before the US can mobilize, much less fire a single missile. And lets not forget, South Korea is an ally.......Sure that will go over well on both a national and the world stage. All because trump wants to measure dick sizes. Nothing else.

He can't explain that away with bribes........

He is not the first to do it. See Clinton

Originally Posted by Clinton

I know of no one who seriously believes that the United States and [South Korea] would be defeated in a war of aggression by North Korea if they were to attack,” Clinton said. “And I made it as clear as I could that if they were to do that, they would pay a price so great that the nation would probably not survive as it is known today.”

It is a threat. It is supposed to be. It is NOT a declaration of war. Obama also threatened NK though in a nicer way.

Originally Posted by Obama

In one warning to North Korea against launching a long-range missile, Obama said that if it should “decide to take this action, we will work with all interested partners in the international community to take appropriate steps to let North Korea know that they cannot threaten the safety and stability of other countries with impunity.”

I am no Trump fan in the least bit but I do not think his response is as bad as people are making it out to be especially considering NK has backed up some of their usual rhetoric with some action. Do remember they shot a missile over Japan.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by Future240

........

So there are several key things you fail to mention in your post and I would like to put your response into context

Footnotes:
1) Clinton came up with the Framework deal between the US and NK. Deal: international consortium planned to replace the North’s plutonium reactor with two light-water reactors; in the meantime, the United States would supply the North with 500,000 tons of heavy fuel oil every year to make up for the theoretical loss of the reactor while the new ones were built

2) George W. Bush became president in 2001 and was highly skeptical of Clinton’s deal with North Korea. Secretary of State Colin L. Powell was even slapped down when he suggested the administration would follow the path set by the Clinton administration. The new administration terminated missile talks with Pyongyang and spent months trying to develop its own policy.

3) In response, the Bush administration terminated the supply of fuel oil that was essential to the agreement — and then North Korea quickly kicked out the U.N. inspectors, restarted the nuclear plant and began developing its nuclear weapons, using the material in radioactive fuel rods that previously had been under the close watch of the IAEA. Japan and South Korea, the key partners in the accord, were not happy with the decision to terminate the Agreed Framework, but there was little they could do about it.

Within two years, U.S. intelligence analysts concluded North Korea was using the plutonium to create nuclear weapons.

The rest is history..........Essentially NK was cheating on the Framework deal, hence the move for Clinton to make such statements

Trump on the other hand. No such deal in place to be boasting such statements.

So in essence, Clinto scripted a crappy deal, Bush administration comes in and really blows it up. NK moves to issue middle finger to the US.


If people care to read, see below
Why did Clinton's NK deal fail.

The Facts

Clinton’s deal was called the Agreed Framework. In contrast to the detailed and lengthy agreement negotiated in 2015 under President Barack Obama intended to restrain Iran’s nuclear ambitions, the Agreed Framework, struck in 1994, was only a few pages long.

Essentially, an international consortium planned to replace the North’s plutonium reactor with two light-water reactors; in the meantime, the United States would supply the North with 500,000 tons of heavy fuel oil every year to make up for the theoretical loss of the reactor while the new ones were built.


North Korea’s program was clearly created to churn out nuclear weapons; the reactor at Yongbyon was not connected to the power grid and appeared only designed to produce plutonium, a key ingredient for nuclear weapons. The theory of the deal was that, with the plant shuttered and the plutonium under the close watch of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), North Korea would not be able to produce a bomb. There were also vague references in the text to improving relations and commerce.

The deal was hugely controversial in Congress. Just as with Obama’s Iran negotiations, Clinton structured the agreement so that it was not considered a treaty that would have required ratification by the Senate. As with Iran, there was also an international component, with South Korea, Japan and a European agency joining with the United States to create an organization to implement the accord.

As Iowa State University professor Young Whan Kihl noted in an article exploring the political ramifications:


Since the “Agreed Framework” took the form of a presidential “executive agreement,” rather than a formal treaty (such as SALT I & II), the U.S. Senate did not need to give “advise and consent” under the U.S. Constitution. However, the terms of the agreement are controversial and subject to scrutiny by the Republican-dominant U.S. Congress that began a series of congressional hearings in mid-January 1995. Some congressmen and senators demanded that the “agreed framework” be treated as a formal treaty; this move was resisted by the Clinton Administration but, because of the budgetary and appropriation clauses of the agreement, the U.S. Congress was inevitably drawn into the process of implementation and verification of the agreement.

So how did North Korea get its hands on the nuclear material? George W. Bush became president in 2001 and was highly skeptical of Clinton’s deal with North Korea. Secretary of State Colin L. Powell was even slapped down when he suggested the administration would follow the path set by the Clinton administration. The new administration terminated missile talks with Pyongyang and spent months trying to develop its own policy.


Then intelligence agencies determined that North Korea was cheating on the agreement by trying to develop nuclear material through another method — highly enriched uranium. The Bush administration sent an envoy who confronted North Korea — and the regime was said to have belligerently confirmed it in 2002, just as the Bush administration was mostly focused on the pending invasion of Iraq.

In response, the Bush administration terminated the supply of fuel oil that was essential to the agreement — and then North Korea quickly kicked out the U.N. inspectors, restarted the nuclear plant and began developing its nuclear weapons, using the material in radioactive fuel rods that previously had been under the close watch of the IAEA. Japan and South Korea, the key partners in the accord, were not happy with the decision to terminate the Agreed Framework, but there was little they could do about it.

Within two years, U.S. intelligence analysts concluded North Korea was using the plutonium to create nuclear weapons.


After North Korea conducted its first nuclear test in 2006, the Bush administration tried desperately to negotiate a new accord with Pyongyang, including offering significant new concessions, but those efforts ultimately failed. Bush, to the anger of conservatives and the government of Japan, even removed North Korea from the State Department list of state sponsors of terrorism — only to see the hard work turn to dust. The nuclear genie by then was out of the bottle, and North Korea had little incentive to give up its stash of plutonium, no matter what the United States and its negotiating allies offered.

(Toward the end of the negotiations, the Bush administration learned that North Korea had helped Syria build a nuclear facility, which was destroyed by Israeli warplanes. Bush kept negotiating, even though North Korea in theory had crossed a “red line” set by Bush in 2003 that it could not transfer nuclear technology to other parties.)

The issue was considered such a loser that the Obama administration barely bothered to restart disarmament talks, adopting a stance dubbed “strategic patience.” (One official privately said the Obama team was stunned at the concessions offered by Bush when they reviewed the diplomatic history after taking office.) During that eight-year period of fitful talks, North Korea improved its mastery of nuclear technology, including uranium enrichment, and also its missile technology.


Questions have since been raised about whether the Bush administration misinterpreted North Korea’s supposed confirmation — and doubts also emerged about the quality of U.S. intelligence that inspired the confrontation. But Bush’s later efforts to negotiate a new accord were hampered by fresh evidence that North Korea actually did have an undisclosed uranium-enrichment program.

Interestingly, former Clinton administration officials have said they knew North Korea was cheating on the uranium enrichment front dating back to 1998 and planned to use that intelligence as leverage to keep the Agreed Framework in place and the plutonium under lock and key. Other Clinton administration officials will also concede that they never thought they would have to build the light-water reactors because they assumed, wrongly, that the regime would collapse before the reactors would be built.

But in the end, the regime has survived. Much like the Iranian accord negotiated by Obama, the North Korea deal had little bipartisan support and was rejected by the incoming president as a bad deal. But, as Bush quickly learned, terminating one deal is much easier than renegotiating a better one.

[RalliartRsX]

Saved for response.......busy at work lol

[RalliartRsX]

@Future240; Thanks for sparking me to do my research before making that long winded post

However, I would like to point out several stark differences

1) The quote you brought up from Clinton was in reference to a discussion between leader of South Korea at the time Kim Yong and then president Clinton. The difference is in this quote below

The most important piece of our discussions centered on North Korea. We are both concerned by North Korea's concentration of forces near the Demilitarized Zone and by its refusal to grant international inspectors full access to its nuclear sites.

Source: This is actual dialogue as officially recorded.
.The President's News Conference With President Kim Yong-sam of South Korea


2) NK did not (atleast, in the eyes of the public) have Nuclear warheads
3) Those warheads weren't pointed at the US

The fact that NK has wareheads, which (they boast) can reach US mainland does change how a sitting president needs to approach the situation. In addition, with "allys" (and I used the term lightly) in terms of China, the war posture and how you approach changes drastically from when Clinton had to deal with 2+ decades ago.

I understand your point, but the two are not one in the same. The rules of the game have changed immensely the past several decades, and trump is seemingly oblivious to this

[Future240]

^ I an respect that.


I can agree that Trump went overboard with what his comments suggest (fire and fury sounds like nuclear to me) but I still feel he is right in letting NK know we will not stand for their mess.


Ultimately I hope both Nk and the POTUS can check their ego's and not get engage in a war that would leave millions of Koreans dead.

[hatch4life]

would leave millions of Koreans dead.

I laughed more than I should at this

[Future240]

Originally Posted by hatch4life

I laughed more than I should at this

Why thhe fuck would you laugh at it in general? I hope you realize Koreans means both North and South.

[simmode1]

Lol @ the difference in tone between his visit to Puerto Rico versus Las Vegas.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by simmode1

Lol @ the difference in tone between his visit to Puerto Rico versus Las Vegas.

Don't forget those thoughts and prayers the Puerto Ricans could be eating right now.

[SSJ-S15]

Originally Posted by Phlip

Don't forget those thoughts and prayers the Puerto Ricans could be eating right now.

Thank god he jumpshotted those paper towels at them, crisis averted!

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by SSJ-S15

Thank god he jumpshotted those paper towels at them, crisis averted!

Tryouts. The NBA is 10 days out from the first pre season game.......

[SSJ-S15]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Tryouts. The NBA is 10 days out from the first pre season game.......

[VNG704]

Bye bye net neutrality. It's what happens when you drain the swamp and fill it with more swamp.

[RalliartRsX]

And hello taxes on everyone to feed the rich!

How the fuck does one write in the fact that folks with private jets, the maintenance, purchase and fuel cost is a tax write of?!?!

Yep, this is the guy all the trump voters voted in. Literally voting against your best interest.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

And hello taxes on everyone to feed the rich!

How the fuck does one write in the fact that folks with private jets, the maintenance, purchase and fuel cost is a tax write of?!?!

Yep, this is the guy all the trump voters voted in. Literally voting against your best interest.

Yep, "end of the world"...again.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Yep, "end of the world"...again.

Just some advice for most of you:
http://www.storyarts.org/library/aes...ories/boy.html

[Phlip]

And down goes Tillerson.
This administration has the turnover rate of a McDonald's in the hood.
This administration has the dropout rate of an inner city high school going through a spate of pregnancies

[RalliartRsX]

.........and installs pompeo.......a man with trump bromance which rivals the Jersey Shore.

Man, I cannot get tired of all this winning. So much winning.......

These changes are going to have lasting effects on the US as a whole, both domestically and especially internationally.

I wonder how the PA election will turn out?? If its as close as polls suggest (yes, polls cannot be trusted I know ), the this will be interesting. trump won PA by 21 points. If the Repub candidate just barely squeaks out a victory, that may put the GOP on notice. They JUST now started pouring $$$$ into the race due to having a lackluster candidate who was just ridding the Washington GOP coat tails.

Time will tell

[Phlip]

Build the wall!
[link]
Build the wall!
Sooner or later, this man will learn to listen to his advisers and accept that he got elected on the back of horrible and unfeasible ideas. The failure of the worst of those ideas are simply the proof of how bad they were all along.