This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[swiftmini]

Heres a few pics of my Geomasters fitted. I have more lock than the pics show.

In the pics you can see that the outer rose joint is at its limit. need to bend the lca with heat

[Jonnie Fraz]

Gotta say I saw something funny the other day while Ryan Kado was out at the track testing. He was doing some slow turns in the pits, and he has so much angle that the car will pivot on the inside rear tire. It is pretty amazing.

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by Jonnie Fraz

Gotta say I saw something funny the other day while Ryan Kado was out at the track testing. He was doing some slow turns in the pits, and he has so much angle that the car will pivot on the inside rear tire. It is pretty amazing.

So the turning radius is basically the wheel base?! Do the knuckles make the car a little twitchy on the freeway?

[nieko]

Kado's car doesn't go on the freeway brooo. haha

[GSXRJJordan]

Yeah Kado's car was just at my shop, we looked over everything while I fixed a few things, and he did the alignment/suspension settings again. The front geometry is nuts. Still trying to figure out the best coordination of angle and grip, but the turning radius is VERY close to the wheelbase.

[lflkajfj12123]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

You will gain more from lightening unsprung weight on your car.

What wheels are you running? Light wheels along with aluminum bodied coilovers would help quite a bit.

sway bars are not a part of unsprung weight

[!Zar!]

Originally Posted by s0apgun

sway bars are not a part of unsprung weight

I never said they were?

[lflkajfj12123]

lol what

the posts above you were all talking about lighter sway bars and that was your response

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by s0apgun

sway bars are not a part of unsprung weight

Technically half of the sway bars arms, and all of the sway bar end link weight ARE unsprung weight.

[!Zar!]

Originally Posted by s0apgun

lol what

the posts above you were all talking about lighter sway bars and that was your response

I was simply talking about how one should focus on more important things than swaybar weight.

[nieko]

Sorry if this is a dumb question...

Are there any negatives to making your front LCA's long as hell?

I'm trying to push my wheel the fuck out so I can use all my angle and stop hitting the sway bar and what not.

I know it will give me a bunch of camber, but I can always Dial it out with the upper mount.

Sorry if this was a completely retarded post. -_____-

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by nieko

Sorry if this is a dumb question...

Are there any negatives to making your front LCA's long as hell?

I'm trying to push my wheel the fuck out so I can use all my angle and stop hitting the sway bar and what not.

I know it will give me a bunch of camber, but I can always Dial it out with the upper mount.

Sorry if this was a completely retarded post. -_____-

Having an increased front track will also change the handling dynamic (understeer/oversteer) a little as well, but that goes more in depth than I have knowledge of, especially with the specifics of the s-chassis.

Other than having to redo your alignment, I can't think of any big disadvantages. The C's garage guys have their LCA's extended 25mm, and seem to like it.

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

It will increase your scrub radius a bit if you don't dial out the additional camber with the camber plate.

Having an increased front track will also change the handling dynamic (understeer/oversteer) a little as well, but that goes more in depth than I have knowledge of, especially with the specifics of the s-chassis.

Other than having to redo your alignment, I can't think of any big disadvantages. The C's garage guys have their LCA's extended 25mm, and seem to like it.

I personally don't think scrub radius will change much, if at all. scrub rad is distance from. centre of contact patch to the point where kpi hits the floor

roll centre will change as well as swing axle length (instantaneous centre).

I wouldn't worry though. my lower arms are 35mm longer than stock s13

[nieko]

That's what I wanted to hear gentlemen....

I'm pretty sure I will now be able to get retarded amounts of angle now.

I'm excited.

Check out this video, there are a few clips of some of the angle I was already getting

ASBXI Part 3 of 3 on Vimeo

1:58 5:30 8:52

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by nieko

Sorry if this is a dumb question...

Are there any negatives to making your front LCA's long as hell?

I'm trying to push my wheel the fuck out so I can use all my angle and stop hitting the sway bar and what not.

I know it will give me a bunch of camber, but I can always Dial it out with the upper mount.

Sorry if this was a completely retarded post. -_____-

It's almost all good. Increased track width WITHOUT increasing the scrub radius. Increased track width means you will gain traction on that end of the car (this is not chassis specific). That's a particularly good thing on the front of an s-chassis though because it will allow you to increase the wheel rate, which will allow you to keep the camber where you want it (something our front strut design naturally fights). Because the struts have almost no camber gain these cars need a ton of static negative camber in front (~3 degrees). So even that shouldn't be a problem with adjustable camber plates.

Really the only negatives I can see is a possible loss of caster if you don't have enough adjustment in your tension rods, and hitting the fender if you are running some real meat on stock fenders.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

I personally don't think scrub radius will change much, if at all. scrub rad is distance from. centre of contact patch to the point where kpi hits the floor

roll centre will change as well as swing axle length (instantaneous centre).

I wouldn't worry though. my lower arms are 35mm longer than stock s13

You are correct sir, I was thinking about it the wrong way and it doesn't change scrub radius. I've edited my post to say such.

Originally Posted by SicBastard

It's almost all good. Increased track width WITHOUT increasing the scrub radius. Increased track width means you will gain traction on that end of the car (this is not chassis specific). That's a particularly good thing on the front of an s-chassis though because it will allow you to increase the wheel rate, which will allow you to keep the camber where you want it (something our front strut design naturally fights). Because the struts have almost no camber gain these cars need a ton of static negative camber in front (~3 degrees). So even that shouldn't be a problem with adjustable camber plates.

Really the only negatives I can see is a possible loss of caster if you don't have enough adjustment in your tension rods, and hitting the fender if you are running some real meat on stock fenders.

The good thing is that the tension rods can stay in the same position if you extend the lower arm by cutting outside the mounting points and adding more LCA in there.

Thank you for the track width information. I was reading a forum with a bunch of engineers arguing about what it did and it was very general, so I didn't want to spout off information when I didn't know how it related to the s-chassis. It makes sense though considering the track width is basically equal front and rear on an S13.

[nieko]

Coool. Now I just hope my tie rod setup reaches -_______-

We will find out tonight. Maybe I'll even take pictures

[Patrick Bowering]

Originally Posted by nieko

Coool. Now I just hope my tie rod setup reaches -_______-

We will find out tonight. Maybe I'll even take pictures

probably wont my s13 with s14 arms and pbm knuckles wouldnt reach with s14 tierods i have georges spacers on both sides.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bowering

probably wont my s13 with s14 arms and pbm knuckles wouldnt reach with s14 tierods i have georges spacers on both sides.

BTW, this doesn't make sense. Sure your tie rods aren't Z33? What tie rod ends are you running?

[nieko]

I have these gigantic driftworks offset spacers that push the tie rod out quiiiiiiite a bit.

and SPL outters and that adds quite a bit of length too.

Stuff didn't come in today, so we'll seeeeeeeeeeee.

[Matej]

Hello gentlemen, a few questions if I may.
My plan was to upgrade to S14 rod ends and buy some nifty angle-increasing inner tie rods. I wanted the Max ones, but they are out of stock and they do not know when they will have new ones, so I researched more, and started looking into these offset spacers:




My main question is, which would be more beneficial; the offset & angle spacers with new OEM S14 inners and outers, or angle-increasing inner tie rods with new S14 outers?

What companies sell the offset spacers? So far I know of Driftworks and Era1. I would like to compare and find ones with the largest spacer for über angle.
One final thing, do the steering rack boots fit over the spacers? I would hope so.

Thank you for any input.

[Patrick Bowering]

mine are s14 inner and outer and with driftworks spacers you should be fine.

[nieko]

You need to read through this thread more Matej.

"My main question is, which would be more beneficial; the offset & angle spacers with new OEM S14 inners and outers, or angle-increasing inner tie rods with new S14 outers?

If you get the offset spacers, they have the little inner spacer built in. You do not need the offset spacers unless you get a buttload of angle and your steering is going over center.

Inner tie rods don't increase angle unless they have a built-in spacer on the rack side. But you can just get that spacer from PSM or whatever for dirt cheap and throw it on your tie rods.

And yes... if you do end up getting the offset spacers, the boots fit over.

[Matej]

Originally Posted by nieko

You need to read through this thread more Matej.

Sorry, searched around after posting that only to end up back in this thread and be embarrassed to see you were discussing them just a few pages back.

One last thing; how come the offset spacers are not symmetrical, while tie rods and all the other non-offset spacers are? Or will it be self-explanatory once I look at the rack?

[PoorMans180SX]

Once you look at the rack, you'll get it.

BTW, PSM is going to come out with an offset spacer soon. If I were you, I would wait for them, but that is just my opinion.

Also, you only need S14 outers if you are using S14/PSM/Z32/Z33 inners, as stock S13 inners are smaller and can only use S13 outers.

[DC Dan MAX USA]

Originally Posted by Jonnie Fraz

Gotta say I saw something funny the other day while Ryan Kado was out at the track testing. He was doing some slow turns in the pits, and he has so much angle that the car will pivot on the inside rear tire. It is pretty amazing.

Ryans car is truely amazing, did you all see this???

Originally Posted by nieko

Are there any negatives to making your front LCA's long as hell?

I'm trying to push my wheel the fuck out so I can use all my angle and stop hitting the sway bar and what not.

Its all good
The FLCAs you ordered can widen the track 5 inches, its THAT gangster.

Originally Posted by nieko

Coool. Now I just hope my tie rod setup reaches -_______-

We will find out tonight. Maybe I'll even take pictures

Sorry we sold out before you got your FLCA/TENROD combo, one more week for fresh stock.

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

PSM is going to come out with an offset spacer soon.

thats true.

Developed for the 350Z angle kit ... but can be used on s-chassis too.





I want to let you guys know about whats new...

Parts Shop MAX PRO steering knuckle modification:

$400 plus return shipping
Availability - NOW

This is the most aggressive knuckle available today with up to 62 degrees of angle, 45mm roll center correction and the lowest possible ackerman.

caution! - this is only for real men who relentlessly pursue the art of throwing cars at 90+ degrees of drift angle
wussies need not apply.

[Def]

Why would you use a Class 8.8 bolt in that location? That thing holds your steering together with a huge bending load on it.


Since 99.99999% of the people in the world don't understand the distinction, a Class 8.8 bolt is equal to an SAE Grade 5 bolt.

[Matej]

The size of the spacer on those is cool, but the hardware store bolt looks off, unless the final product will feature a different one. Is there enough room to freely remove/install the tie rod and rack bolt? It seems that they may be cramped a bit close together.

[DC Dan MAX USA]

Def, for the prototype parts mock up (pictured), we just took an off the shelf bolt and re-threaded it as a matter of convenience in our test fitting session for the Z parts. Thanks for paying attention to detail.
We will use grade 10.9 in production just like we have been using in Ryan Kado's formula D car.

The production bolt will also have plating - prototype photo bolt does not.

Please also notice the details that make this latest prototype rack spacer a really nice piece, like the radius that distributes the load from the sleeve to the main body, and the lip on the perimeter for retaining a dust boot.

Matej, of course the tie rod fits next to the bolt!

[Matej]

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

Matej, of course the tie rod fits next to the bolt! wow

Ouch, haha. Just noticed that yours is offset more than the Driftworks one, thus not requiring a recessed bolt. What is the projected price estimate?