Airfilter Test.. KN is garbage....

[slider2828]

I wanted to share this with people. My neighbor who went with KN on his Subaru basically has startup issues after like 80k miles.... basically brought it into the dealer and basically they said KN is garbage on your daily LOL...

Friends don't let friends use KN?

[Silv1401]

Just got done dealing with AEM intakes (which are just rebranded K&N filters for those who didnt know.) Some of their filters have plugs in the tip, that are held in by about a hair of material. Mine fell out at some point, didn't realize, and my intake sits the filter about 5 inches off of the ground. Sucked debris into turbo, chipped impeller, broke turbo... took over 7 months to get reimbursements for damages.. DO NOT USE K&N/AEM INTAKES if you give a shit about your car.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[anthony_240]

Basically ...

Originally Posted by slider2828

I wanted to share this with people. My neighbor who went with KN on his Subaru basically has startup issues after like 80k miles.... basically brought it into the dealer and basically they said KN is garbage on your daily LOL...



Friends don't let friends use KN?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jedi03]

what happened that caused the damage? incorrect install? I have been using these for the last ~18 years no issues...I even swapped over my cabin filters and may look at some of their other options...if you follow the directions these are great filters, however, if they have abnormal wear or are installed incorrectly then sure they can cause issue...just like any other part out there...

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by jedi03

what happened that caused the damage? incorrect install? I have been using these for the last ~18 years no issues...I even swapped over my cabin filters and may look at some of their other options...if you follow the directions these are great filters, however, if they have abnormal wear or are installed incorrectly then sure they can cause issue...just like any other part out there...

If you watch the video basically its garbage brand new out of the box. Sure it works, but you are sucking in 5+ micro particles into your engine. Just look at how its tested, but basically it almost does nothing to filter worst than your cheapest filter that costs 2.99.

[[240sx]]

Originally Posted by anthony_240

Basically ...

*George Lopez voice* Basically we came to find out what was basically wrong, to find out what the basics are..... basically"

[brndck]

yeah, but plenty of people run open turbo for years and years at a time, so . . . .

[PoorMans180SX]

This makes me wonder about all the high performance air filters out there. I remember a test being done with the old HKS mushroom and it made terrible power, but I wonder what the filtration rates actually are.

In my time at WSRD, we always used UNI air filters, which are an oiled foam.

I'd gladly sacrifice a few horsepower for clean air on my expensive projects.

Originally Posted by brndck

yeah, but plenty of people run open turbo for years and years at a time, so . . . .

And by "years and years" you mean a couple passes at the strip and a few thousand miles. I've never seen a daily driver without a filter last for very long (or be driven that much), usually because they're power hungry or they have a garbage tune and grenade the thing.
Forward facing turbo kits are very popular in the 4G63 community, and I have seen turbo compressor wheels chipped, scratched, and worn from foreign debris. Funny, those engines didn't have very good leakdown...

[tacotacotaco]

The only test I remember was from like a decade ago. Mushroom filteres were shit but the Apexi filters seemed to filter and flow the most.

Side Note working at a performance shop we avoid Oil filters as on some applications we see the oil fouling the mass air flow sensors.

[TheRealSy90]

Personally I use Amsoil's intake filters. They have a bunch of different sizes that should fit any aftermarket "cone style" intake system. These have a really good filter media, and they don't have that silly metal cap that dislodges and gets sucked into the turbo. I know it looks like they have it but they don't.

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...ction-filters/
Just look through the available sizes and determine what will fit your setup best.



Also i've been informed that Amsoil is going to discontinue this line of intake filters due to low demand. So get them while you can!
I run two on my vq s13, one on my sr s13 and a massive one on my 5.9 cummins.

[AMD 240]

I'll stick to my Apexi air filters lol.
I did some research on em after I picked mine up from work. Seems like out of all the "JDM" brands, Apexi is best one to buy.



http://www.gtrheritage.com/topic/481...lement-thread/

The post is old, with test results that are even older. But it's still interesting.

[slider2828]

Yeah I agree. I would probably not use any KNs on engines I expect to last long ESPECIALLY if you drive to and from track. If you are towing who cares, track tends to be more clear of debris, but drive to the track, good luck....

SO I guess depends what you do with your track car.... Definitely don't run anything that has an oil medium, that stuff just gets sucked right into the car while trapping the debris lol.....

Maybe put on stock ish airfilter driving to the track and then put on "performance" filter there....

[tuzzio]

I haven't watched the video YET, but interesting input from you guys.

I've had K&N's on my KA-T for the last 11K Miles (on this build) and my 04 CRF50 has a super super old K&N on it. I've never had issues, BUT that doesn't mean something better doesn't exist.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by AMD 240

I'll stick to my Apexi air filters lol.
I did some research on em after I picked mine up from work. Seems like out of all the "JDM" brands, Apexi is best one to buy.

http://www.gtrheritage.com/topic/481...lement-thread/

The post is old, with test results that are even older. But it's still interesting.

Thanks for finding that and posting it! The Vibrant filters are a similar design to the Apex'i, but the amount of light you can see through them is disconcerting IIRC.

[spooled240]

The apexi's are cool, but they are pretty small so they get dirty much faster.

I prefer and haven't had any issues with the large K&N/AEM dry flow filters

[dreaMervaj]

Well this is a major uppercut to me... I just bought a 4 inch tall K&N filter cause I couldn't find anything that short..

[brndck]

Originally Posted by slider2828

Yeah I agree. I would probably not use any KNs on engines I expect to last long ESPECIALLY if you drive to and from track. If you are towing who cares, track tends to be more clear of debris, but drive to the track, good luck....

SO I guess depends what you do with your track car.... Definitely don't run anything that has an oil medium, that stuff just gets sucked right into the car while trapping the debris lol.....

Maybe put on stock ish airfilter driving to the track and then put on "performance" filter there....

idk man, I had a m's filter (rebranded K&N) on my daily driven sr20powered s13 for almost a decade. never had any performance issues or failures because of it.

HOWEVER, if the data shows that something better is available now, i'm gonna spend my money on the better option.

[dorkidori_s13]

ive been running K&Ns for over 12 years now religiously on both my S13 and daily drivers... never really had any problems other than having to clean the MAF a few weeks after reoiling as excess oil likes to build up on the sensor when you first recharge it.

[srh666]

my story goes like this..
dont clean k&n filter
after 3 years my mafs goes bad
i knock about a pound of dirt outta filter
clean then re-oil it (obviously dont use much oil at all!)
buy new mafs
repeat

[PoorMans180SX]

Oh man, I feel like this thread is going to go the way of oil recommendation/oil analysis threads, where everyone that runs a certain kind of filter goes about defending it because "they've never had an issue" "it's always worked well for me" "my engine runs great after XXXXX miles" and so on and so forth.

Nobody is saying that a K&N filter is going to cause your engine to fail prematurely or cause major engine damage. There is definitely something to be said about having clean air in the engine though, as it's a lot easier to keep wear particles out than filter them out of the oil after they're in your engine. The rule of thumb for particle size when it comes to engine wear is larger than 5 microns and it has the potential for wear. Notice how the K&N lets in a shit ton of that size. Again, is it worth it for a couple extra horsepower?

There are a lot of conditions inside an engine that are nearly impossible to test scientifically without actually disassembling the engine after a standard test procedure of some sort.

For some examples: maybe you live in a city that cleans the streets regularly and there generally not much air contamination. You can probably get away with a filter that doesn't filter the smaller particles. Now if you live in the desert of Arizona or Southern California or whatever, it's probably a better option to run a filter that catches all the small stuff.

I mean, think about the guys that go off track at Apple Valley Speedway or HTM. That engine with a big ol' K&N on it is sucking in tons of garbage. Is it really worth it? Is there a better compromise in flow vs filtration?

That's what these discussions are for, finding the best. Whether it's the best filtration, the best flow, or the best compromise. Why defend K&N if there's something better out there?

Doing some reading on the Amsoil filters and they seem impressive:

The MOST IMPORTANT filter on the M1A1 Abrams battle tank is its’ nanofiber air filter.On Patrol Abrams M1A1 Battle Tank beats the dust with Nanofiber Filtration Technology
The MOST Important filter on YOUR vehicle is also the air filter.

It’s far better, and easier, to keep wear particles out of the engine than it is to attempt filtering them out of the engine oil. Yet filter companies and vehicle manufacturer’s are strangely silent about actual air filter performance and engine needs. Now AMSOIL offers world-leading breakthrough Ea air filters with exclusive nanofiber technology. Based on battlefield-proven air-induction systems used in military ground and air vehicles, this high-technology filtration is now available for consumer use! Ea filters are guaranteed for 4 years, 100,000 miles. The engineering rule of thumb for damaging wear particle size is 5 to 25 microns. Incredibly, these filters are 100% efficient at removing particles of 3 microns, and are 80% effective at removing particles of a 1 micron size. This means that NO WEAR PARTICLES CAN GET PAST OUR Ea AIR FILTERS! AND, they’re less expensive to use than ANY other air filter.

Well-engineered aftermarket air induction systems can provide airflow improvements with gains in horsepower, fuel economy, and towing torque. Unfortunately in many cases they may also let far more wear particles into your engine than the OEM filter. And oiled media can contaminate mass flow air sensors, causing problems with emissions, fuel economy and performance that can even damage transmissions in some cases. AMSOIL lets you leave those problems behind. The full line of nanofiber universal air induction filters (EaAU) are designed to replace stock oil wetted gauze or foam conical filters that were supplied with custom induction systems produced by K&N, Injen, S&B, Green, AIRAID, AFE, TrueFlow and more. Whether your air induction system is in a gasoline street-rod, or a diesel truck, you have great airflow but you need better filtration and more capacity than you get with oiled gauze or foam. AMSOIL Ea Air Induction Filters are dry no-oil filters with nanofiber filtration media to bring your aftermarket air-intake far better efficiency, 50 times the capacity, and excellent airflow while being easily cleanable – every 25,000 miles.

[brndck]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Doing some reading on the Amsoil filters and they seem impressive:

amsoil make any sweet ricer cone filters????

[NukeKS14]

Originally Posted by brndck

amsoil make any sweet ricer cone filters????

Yes.



A few of them.

[truckmtrS13]

No mention of those parts store Spectre filters?

Buddy has used them for years even after they fall apart under regular use.

[Hoffman5982]

I only run Wix filters(air and oil) in both of my daily's so this video makes me feel good about that. That said, I run the HKS mushroom filter on my KA-T and used to run the same thing on my old SR. I knew from the beginning they aren't recommended, but both of them were given to me for free so I said screw it. I buy the $10 fake HKS filter elements off ebay and simply don't give a heck. With where it's sitting in the engine bay, I highly doubt any large debris will make it up to the filter, much less through it. I'm not worried about microscopic shit cuz race car or whatever the kids say these days. A buddy of mine ran his 2871r with no intake pipe at all for a few years and practically daily'd the car. The turbo recently shit the bed requiring a rebuild, but it had shaft play for the longest time so he knew it was coming.

[TheRealSy90]

Originally Posted by brndck

amsoil make any sweet ricer cone filters????

So you just totally glazed over my first post in this thread about their universal line of cone filters? Cool.

Amsoil sells 18 different sizes of cone filters that should fit any cone style intake setup.

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...ction-filters/

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Doing some reading on the Amsoil filters and they seem impressive:

They're a great filter compared to other things on the market. Unfortunately people aren't buying them and Amsoil is planning to discontinue the line.
Maybe if people realize the benefits to it they'll sell more and decide to continue making them.

[slider2828]

If you HAVEN'T seen this, Amsoil is rated pretty high but was low just cause of cost per performance, but it is DEFINITELY up there...

I wish he tested genuine OEM filters, but I change those religiously.

Side note when I had KN on my 2001 GSXR600, they think would be so oily on the other side and definitely debris pass through. Keep in mind I track that thing and motorcycles at 11k rpm suck up a LOT of air and direct ram air doesn't help....

Have gone genuine OE on all my cars.....

[TheRealSy90]

Having a preferred customer account saves a significant amount of money on Amsoil products and shipping etc. Just the air filter is 10-12 bucks off and cheaper than a K&N at that point.

[mechanicalmoron]

Originally Posted by jedi03

what happened that caused the damage? incorrect install? I have been using these for the last ~18 years no issues...I even swapped over my cabin filters and may look at some of their other options...if you follow the directions these are great filters, however, if they have abnormal wear or are installed incorrectly then sure they can cause issue...just like any other part out there...

There's no right way to install them on most cars. And they don't filter.

And they inherently get oil on your MAF/IAT/whatever, while altering the velocity that air hits the MAF relative to how much the engine is actually consuming, compared to what it expects.

when they're filthy, they almost work.

I bet you also swear by your scotchblocked resistor "performance chip" across your MAF. Anyone who doesn't like those things probably just didn't have a real professional install it, amirite?

[afishysilvia]

Originally Posted by Jerometon

Take down the link here, ask mugs for a thread in the beta test section put the link in there. Only players you invite to test will get access.
You can count Gerty and me in for testing, we will write you a free walkthrough too

Shut the fuck up dude, you’re fucking stupid. Where are the mods? Can someone stop this asshole.

[NukeKS14]

Originally Posted by afishysilvia

Shut the fuck up dude, you’re fucking stupid. Where are the mods? Can someone stop this asshole.

Guessing that's a bot man... looks like the account is gone now.