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Old 09-16-2004, 02:06 PM   #1
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Ka24det FAQ

Same as the SR sticky. Post up stuff here.
When I get back from class I'll add my information here. For now, all you people with FMU and otherwise stock fuel setup, go boost. I don't want you to disgrace or defame the KA anymore than it has been.
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Old 09-16-2004, 06:19 PM   #2
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Thank You Jeff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-16-2004, 09:58 PM   #3
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Jeff correct any of this if im terribly wrong because this is off the top of my head.
It's Maeda btw.

Turbo's of choice + Fuel Ideas
300HP+
T04
T3/T04[e]
---
JWT ECU/SAFC2/Emanage/ETC.
Walboro 255
450cc and up
Cobra/Z32 MAF

250-270HP
T3/T04[b/e]
Big T3 (60 trim and up) [standard t3 can do it.]
[t28 - see also, AceinHole]
---
JWT ECU/SAFC2/Emanage/ETC.
Walboro 255
370cc - 450cc
Cobra/Z32 MAF
or
Hacked MAF(?)
[Walbro 255]
370cc - 450cc
or
RRFPR [NOT RECOMMENDED FOR MORE THAN TEMPORARY DRIVING!]
[Walbro 255]
370cc - 450cc

Up to 250HP
Smaller T3
T28
---
JWT ECU/SAFC2/Emanage/ETC.
Walboro 255
370cc and up
or
Hacked MAF(?)
[Walbro 255]
370cc - 450cc
or
RRFPR [Again, not recommended]
[Walbro 255]
370cc - 450cc

Cobra MAF works only with JWT.
Z32 MAF is compatible with most piggybacks.
R32 MAF can also be used and is compatible with most piggybacks.

Cheap Injectors
370cc Injectors come from stock SR20DET's (about 150$ total)
450cc Injectors come from DSM's and require a custom fuel rail (about 200$ total)
480cc Injectors come from S15 SR20DET (about 250$ total)

Cheap Intercoolers
Side-mount SR20DET i/c's will work up to about 200HP
Blue Bird i/c's (slightly bigger) will work up to about 250HP
People have been known to stack sidemount intercoolers to good effect.

It is in my opinion better to shoot for about 250RWHP on the KA and tune for throttle response instead of going for 300+RWHP and having to deal with turbo lag. It's cheaper and more useful if you do anything other then drag racing or racing people on the LA on-ramps.

[I've added stuff in brackets throughout the post, as it was fairly long and I didn't want to quote it. ~Jeff]
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Old 09-16-2004, 11:05 PM   #4
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Edit: Fuel pumps are a MUST when going KAT. Read Jeff's post below this one for more info.

Hacked MAF is also a good option that requires NO ECU mods or piggyback fuel systems. All you do is stick your maf sensor element in a larger tube (size depending on injector/turbo size). a good size to use with 370's is ~2.6ID tube when running 250rwhp or below. some people have run up to a 3"ID with higher numbers.

Starion Intercoolers are also a good option. relatively efficient and good size. good to 300rwhp from what i've heard.

Z31 turbos are a T3, but difficult to fit due to the turbo elbow. not recommended for top mount manifolds.

oil feed line from the turbo can come from 2 places. a sandwich plate between the block and oil filter or the more common, oil pressure sender location, right below the oil filter. thread pitch is 1/8" BSPT. 1/8" NPT will work but will more often than not strip out the hole. then you are FUXORED! so don't use NPT thread pitch on the block. Only problem with BSPT is finding it stateside. America, being the geniuses we are decided to make up our own thread pitch, and not use the world's standard (BSPT). sound familiar?.... not using metric system maybe? haha anyways. Also be careful with braided stainless oil feed lines, they are the best for the job, but you can put holes in them relatively easy. I routed mine back behind the engine because I thought over the valvecover was ugly. it looked better, but got snagged on something and got a hole in it. luckily I was almost home when it happened, if I had been driving for another 5 mins my engine would have been toast.

One of the biggest bitches of everything I did was welding in the oil drain fitting to my oil pan. well not the welding itself, that was the easiest part. taking off the oil pan and especially putting it back on SUCKS!!!! set aside a full day to do it.

another good thing to do is buy a high flow cat for your kat. it seems to be one of the most overlooked parts of a kat setup. Summit sells a universal DOT approved one for like $53 shipped, very good quality. I've got one and love it.

that's about all of the random shit I can think of right now.

I know I'm prolly not supposed to do this but....... [No. You were right. You're not supposed to do that. ~Jeff]
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Old 09-17-2004, 09:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBS14
one common misconception is that high flow fuel pumps are necessicary. stock pump with 370's will do 250rwhp before it starts to lean out. a couple people have also run more fuel pressure via an adjustable regualator to get a little more flow out of their respective injectors too.
It's not a misconception. The stock pump has enough fuel to go there, but the lifespan of a pump running full throttle is severely shortened. Then, if you're like me and drive with barely any gas (fuel pump coolant) it's as good as cooked.
Also, using an adjustable or rising rate fuel pressure regulator puts more stress on the pump, and every pump becomes less efficient when pumping more pressure. This cause lead to fuel starvation, and destroying your motor. It's $100, and I'm dead serious, don't fuck around with "skimping" on fuel. Even at 4psi, get a new $100 pump, or it will eventually be a $500 KA.
-Jeff
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Old 09-17-2004, 11:31 AM   #6
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I edited my post to hopefully not lead people in the wrong direction.

Is this false too?:

A high flow pump will blow out your FPR.
[This is untrue. To a point. I'm running the Walbro 255l/hr high-pressure pump on the stock fuel pressure regulator. However, a z32 tt pump will outflow the fpr. This won't necessarily break it, but it won't be able to hold a constant pressure, will bump up the pressure to the rail, and you'll run rich. Anything over a Walbro 255 hi-flo needs an aftermarket regulator.]
~Jeff
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:01 PM   #7
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Power Levels
Some companies advertise stage 1, 2, and 3 for turbo kits. This isn't very fair in my opinion, because z32 guys get 5+ levels. So I'm just going to make up new stages, based on what builds I've seen.

Stage .5:
Turbo kit, usually junkyard style, smic, and rrfpr.
Parts needed:
Turbo, manifold, blow off valve (BOV), wastegate (unless you have an actuated turbo), smic, fuel pump, rrfpr.
Estimated power levels: It's hit or miss. I've seen 180rwhp @ 6-8psi, and I've seen 230rwhp @ 8psi.

Stage 1:
Basic turbo kit. FMax and XSEngineering both sell their kits with rrfprs, which irks me, because they rarely include a severely-needed fuel pump. Any well pieced together kit will make the same power levels.
Parts needed: Everything from above, but with better parts, and a FMIC.
Claimed power levels: 220rwhp @ 6psi to 240rwhp at 8psi. Depends on the kit.

Stage 2:
This is where people usually go next.
Parts needed:
3" Exhaust. Aftermarket head filter, usually s-afc + 370cc injectors
Estimated power levels: 240 @ 6psi to 260 @ 8psi.

Stage 3.
About 3 in 10 go this far with their turbo kits.
Parts needed:
This is always a tuned ecu, usually z32 or cobra maf, 370cc injectors or larger, aiming for 3" turbo-back exhaust, so larger downpipe, testpipe or high-flow catalytic convertor. Here grip and traction matter.
Estimated power levels: This is a grey area, as there are so many variables. 370cc injectors top out at 275rwhp or so. As does the stock maf. Ignition system is recommended for 300hp+, because the boost tends to blow out the spark.
Here's what I'll say: Limits: 370cc injectors = 270rwhp @ 8-10psi. 50# injectors = 350rwhp @ 15-18psi. At 325rwhp or so, I'd think about moving to stage 4.

Stage 4:
Time for more boost. But with the factory piston ring lands so prone to shattering, they've got to go. While you're there, there are some optional parts to replace.
Required: Forged pistons. While you're in the motor, think about replacing (optional): Rods, rod and main bearings, oil pump, timing components, all gaskets and seals (front and rear main seals, ect). Servicing the tranny and replacing tranny seals should also be done. (I didn't do that, and now have a leaking rear tranny seal )
Power limits: This is rare air. Encroaching on the 400hp club. 72# injectors will be good to 440rwhp or so. Tuning becomes a major factor for the exact horsepower limits. 50# injectors should be thrown away, because they're still limiting you to 350rwhp.

Stage 5:
The whole damn thing. You've got boost. Lots of it. On your built bottom end. But there's gotta be a top end, too. So fix it.
Parts needed: Cams. Swap in some cams, and you'll feel like it's a different car. You'll need some valve springs and retainers, because a built bottom end and cams will open up a 7200-7500rpm redline, and I'm sure you'd want to use it. While you're there, think about valves, and a valve job. Deburr and polish the head (mild port and polish job). Port match the head for the intake and exhaust manifolds.
Cautions: Do not do a major port and polish. This has been blamed for many high powered motors, from BoostedS14 on here, to Chris May's 2 motors in the 438rwhp s14 that was featured in SCC.
*When you swap cams, your car will go from not wanting to approach redline to bouncing off the rev limiter. Hehehe*
Power levels: You still care about these? It's in the 11 second range. Same power, less boost.

Stage 5+:
This isn't really a stage, but wallet permitting, there are many more things you can do. From standalone engine management and throwing out the maf to creating your own intake manifold, or extrude honing the stockie. Imagination and wallet are the limits. You could have even worked with JWT to develop a 96# injector program (now in progress) for sick, sick power levels. 96# injectors should be good to 575+, I haven't done the calculations on it.

Now. This is for refrence only. Don't bitch when you spend $4k and make 10 or 20hp less than "estimated." Alot depends on tuning, and the condition of your motor. There are also the Nissan Freak motors, which produce 30hp more than they should on any setup. Look at the enjuku SR, 393 hp on a t3/4, while no other SR has done over 330 on that kit.
-Jeff
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:07 PM   #8
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ok now if an adjustable fuel pressure regulator is so bad.. what if i have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator running 550 cc injectors.. without running a chipped ecu or a stand alone.. just a piggy back.. and i am also running the walbro 255 pump.. do you guys think it is ok to turn down the fuel pressure? to lean it out a bit?
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:13 PM   #9
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It's bad. There is no reason to run any aftermarket fuel pressure regulator on 550cc or 50# injectors. At base fuel pressure, they provide enough fuel for 350rwhp. And running that much power on a piggyback is stupid. So you're not getting any benefits from the regulator. I would, however, suggest an ecu tune for over 260hp.
-Jeff
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Old 09-17-2004, 02:01 PM   #10
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i understand... but due to time constraints as well as a limited budget.. i ain't planning on trying to make more than 250 whp at 10 psi... for the meantime... and when i actually have enough money to go bookoo bucks on nice engine i will also opt for stand alone as well.
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Old 09-17-2004, 02:30 PM   #11
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You don't need an adjustable fpr, seeing as 550cc injectors are MORE THAN ENOUGH fuel for 250hp. You need some sort of TUNING, and a fuel pressure regulator is not tuning. For the price you'd pay to get a rrfpr tuned, you'd have spent enough for a ecu. They're hard to tune, throw another variable in the mix, and suck. So, stop trying to make excuses for spending the money and accept the fact you've wasted it.
-Jeff
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Old 09-17-2004, 03:03 PM   #12
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manifolds (feel free to steal the list and add more)

etdracing http://www.etdracing.com/manifold/manifold6.html
revhard http://www.revhard.com/castmanifolds.html
phat ka-t http://www.phatka-t.com/s13manifold.htm
ssautochrome check ebaymotors
jsgtools kit http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html
iap http://www.import-autoperformance.co...ds_access.html
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Old 09-18-2004, 01:03 AM   #13
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I know some of you guys are tapping into the block for the oil return line. If anyone could get a how-to, or even just a pic of where-to, that would be awesom.
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Old 09-18-2004, 09:37 AM   #14
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SSauto manifold - http://www.planb-attack.com/kyle/group-buy.htm

When you buy a kit like the Fmax(turbonetics) or Greddy, what is the ratio on the RRFPR?

I would think adding a RRFPR in a 1:1 ratio to any kit would ease in the tuning department. Correct me if i am wrong, but for ever 1 psi of boost the fpr goes up 1 psi. In turn when tuning you are not having to sort of max out the piggy back at each rpm.
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Old 09-18-2004, 12:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightwalker
I know some of you guys are tapping into the block for the oil return line. If anyone could get a how-to, or even just a pic of where-to, that would be awesom.
who is? I've never heard of that. oil pan, yes. block, no. Oil feed comes from the block as stated in my above post. Is that what you were thinking of?

If you are thinking of supply, it's a big round sensor that screws into the block just below the oil filter. It has one wire going into the end of it. you can't miss it if you look for it.
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Old 09-18-2004, 07:01 PM   #16
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yes, I am talking about oil return into the block. I forget if it was here or FA that everyone was talking about it. Well, anyone here?
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Old 09-18-2004, 07:58 PM   #17
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why would you do that? what is more effective about it than returning into the oil pan? I fail to see how it would be more beneficial than returning to the oil pan.
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Old 09-20-2004, 01:36 PM   #18
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I've never read about it here but I saw Greaser talking about it on KA-T.org. I think he's a member of FA also. He does it on all of his motors now. He drills a hole in the block, welds a AN fitting to the block and uses stainless lines. This alleviates fixing lines and checking them for leaks. It's also more resistant to heat, oil, etc. It also seals easier and it's definitely gonna be higher than the level of the oil in the pan.

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Old 09-21-2004, 03:12 PM   #19
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it was in a magazine tech article. it had a silver mkiv on the cover. one of the more ricier mags

edit. modified mag around jan o4.
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Old 09-21-2004, 03:24 PM   #20
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Thanks guys, I'll go bug Greaser at FA.
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Old 09-23-2004, 04:05 PM   #21
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bov

HKS Super blow. Great for open atmo. bov. seals nice and tite at idle no staling once in a blue moon a little flame (it is a push/pull design bov so T off one vacume line to the big nipple and the little nipple on the back side.) Thou most of the HKS bov you can run open atmo. with no problems

Blow by MAF had great throttle response, nothing negitive

Pull Thru MAF recomend 12-18" of pipe from maf to turbo, great idle, perfect fuel pressure reading

Recomend changing out the pvr valve, seen a few of those go up which in turn less lifespan on piston rings

Ka24de sick motor!
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Old 09-28-2004, 10:43 AM   #22
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I dont know if this has been asked already but can the 95-98 turbo kits fit the 91-93 s13?
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Old 10-02-2004, 06:02 PM   #23
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What about the SSA manifold? It states it's for the 94+ kade, will this manfold work on 91-93 ka's??
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Old 10-03-2004, 12:29 AM   #24
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It'll be another week or week and a half before I can commit a couple hours to these threads. Until then, keep adding info!
For the two above. 94 = s13 convertable = s13 engine. Now. SSA sucks, their SSAutoCrack manifolds suck, and if they don't realize '95 is the beginning of s14 with a different engine bay, or that by including '94 it infers fitment to '91+, they're retarded. I'm sure someone would have corrected them by now...
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Old 10-03-2004, 06:41 AM   #25
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Here's my ideal KA setup.. I'm actually building this right now..

S13 KA24DE motor
Arias 8.5:1 pistons
Pauter forged rods
JWT cams/springs
ARP studs
metal headgasket
Custom sheetmetal intake manifold
Garrett GT30R (.82 A/R)
Custom equal length stainless manifold (316L schedule 40 weld L's)
3" dp and exhaust
Enthalapy (formerly of Secret Services) tuned ECU
72lb injectors
Z32 MAF
Custom billet twin feed fuel rail
Twin Walbro pumps (just in case.. )

All the other mods... intercooler, piping, blah.. blah.. you know the rest..

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Old 10-03-2004, 07:06 AM   #26
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a quick question.... besides upgrading the fuel pump, injectors, ect, is there any major change you have to make to the car after installing the turbo, such as ECU settings ect?
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Old 10-03-2004, 11:17 AM   #27
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Yes, along with what you said you should have a way to control the fuel. Such as an ECU (Enthalpy, JWT, etc.), S-AFC, stand alone (AEM, Tec3, etc.). The ecu and stand alone will also control advance and retard, along with higher resolution, so they'd be the better choice.
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Old 10-03-2004, 11:31 AM   #28
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Enthalapy > everyone
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Old 10-03-2004, 12:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nissantuner22
Enthalapy > everyone
I don't realy think that Scott's tuning ability is above Clark's.. Seriously.. think about it. Clark has been tuning Nissan cars/trucks for 20 years. They do work for Nissan Motorsports and Nissan Corporate.. at least a few projects a year that no one even knows about. Clark's knowledge in camshaft development and engine tuning theory is phenominal. I talked to him last week about the big hoo-rah on Fresh Alloy about the JWT versus Enthalapy ECU comparision.. He laughed about it.. and said.. well I would hope that any competant tuner would be able to get more power out of a given setup if they sat there and tweaked on it. Also, not every setup is the same.. Different bends in piping affect flow over the MAF sensor... differences in fuel pressure.. timing.. etc.. All of this stuff adds up.. so Clark DOES tune conservatively. I don't blame them.. When you tune to the edge, and mass produce it.. things can go wrong in a hurry. We're not just talking about a few ECU's here and there... JWT turns out hundreds/thousands of these things. Liability is a big issue.. so, it pays to be conservative.

And I'm NOT taking away from Scott's tuning ability... He's very good at what he does. But, to say that he's better than Clark... just isn't true. Matter of fact.. Scott is going to help tune our newest 500whp Spec V project. Since our customer lives in Tampa.. this will be convenient. If I were closer to CA.. Clark would be helping. I trust BOTH of thier tuning ability.. But to say that one is better than the other.. just isn't fair.

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Old 10-03-2004, 08:27 PM   #30
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Oh my god. I didn't just read this shit on Tampa Racing. Now that you're on my forum, the FAQ will not turn into a debate. Make a different thread if that's what gets your rocks off.
Scott said there were only slight differences in a chip he'd ship out versus that ecu he dyno'd. 40hp is not "slight differences". 10-15.. maybe 20rwhp would be a margin of safety. 40rwhp gain over JWT is rediculous.
You brought up this camshaft design shit in TR too. Here, again, we're not talking about camshafts. Or who gives better blowjobs. Or who has the darker eyes. Wow. He can design a cam. But apparently can't or won't tune an ecu for power. 10.5:1 from the JWT ecu I got can be construed as "Safe Tuning." To me it's a waste. A waste of gas, a waste of power, and a sheer waste of money. JWT has no customer support, and charges to retune. Scott is readily available, remembers who he's talking to (as opposed to my "Hey I have a problem." "Ok. Open the ECU and tell me the numbers." "Ok. I got the numbers.. 46xcx20dcxz." "Who are you?"), and doesn't *afaik* charge to retune. I don't care about how many ECUs they sell. Maybe they forgot what customer service is, or maybe it's just another case of "Bigger isn't better."
How about the use of a Cobra MAF? It's a ploy for JWT to make money imo. There is no reason to use a shitty MAF like a cobra, which a) is hard to make piping for, and b) maxes at 350hp. How do they get it past 350hp? By using a splitter in the ecu. When a z32 maf is great to 545hp, and the ecu reads true, why write programs and only sell the cobra maf? $$$.
So here we have price. Scott wins. Customer service. Scott wins. Power. Scott wins. Fuel economy. Scott wins. About the only thing JWT can be thanked for is pioneering this.
And in a year, if someone bothers to seek out and tally the blown motors attributed to Scott and JWT, I will bet $5 that the two ecus will be within 10% of eachother. Most people blow their motors due to a corner cut. Not the ecu program. So losing so much power, so much gas mileage to prevent only a handfull of ecu-related motor deaths is not worth it.
How about this. If JWT is great, why don't they come out with a 2nd program? One oriented towards power and economy rather than safety. I didn't half-ass my setup. I don't want a program written for those who do, and I want my 40rwhp back.
-Jeff
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