Ka24e Timing problems

[Kaiba]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but i've scoured the internet looking for answers about single cams and timing issues, finding close to no helpful info. So here goes.

>Had timing chain rattle 24/7.
>Bought full replacement kit and installed all parts in the motor at (what I thought was TDC) Everything was lined up at the time, chain links and all.
>put back together all according to the how-to I was following.
>distributor lined up how it was supposed to
>Motor now runs like shit, starts and idles fairly okay around 800ish. but Has no power and overheats very quickly, not to mention running very rough once in gear.

So today I went and took the valve cover back off and got the cam gear lined up at actual tdc, used the screwdriver in the spark plug hole trick to make sure. And found that nothing lines up as it should. (to my knowledge)

Chain on cam gear is two links behind the mark:


And I'm a little unclear on the distributor/key/oil pump installation, but the backwards 'D' appears to be at the wrong angle? The round part of the 'D' shape is pointing towards the front middle of the car.


SO because my mechanical knowledge is limited. Am I gonna have to strip the whole front off this thing again? Are the problems my KA is having a result of the chain, distributor, or both?

Thanks in advance for any help. This is driving me nuts instead of driving me to work, like it's supposed to.

[drewusmaximus]

I replaced my chain, tensioner, and guides a few months ago. I also did the screwdriver on cylinder one and made sure the hol eon the cam gear mated with the colored link, as well as the line on the crankshaft pulley was lined up. Before I pulled off the old chain, I rotated the engine about 17 times so that the hole on the cam gear mated with the colored link and the lines on the pulley matched. There are several lines on the crankshaft pulley that is used for timing but, mine matched with the last line on the pulley. On the distributor side, the rotor was pointing to cylinder 1, which basically is like a hand dial pointing between 3 and 4 on a clock. I also made sure I knew the exact position of the oil pump when I pulled it out so it can go back in the exact way so it would match and connect to the distributor. I made absolutely sure the crankshaft and the camshaft did not move a hair once TDC was in place.

Once I put everything back in place it started right up. Idle was at 750ish, no overheat, and no leaks. The reason why I replaced my tensioner and chain was, it had the rattle during startup and during all RPM ranges.

But, after replacing the chain, tensioner, and guides, I still have that damn rattle.
That's where I am stuck at right now. Not sure if it's a lifter or a valve.

In your case, it sounds like either the camshaft or crankshaft moved a few degrees before you put the new chain on or, the chain skipped a couple teeth. Hopefully none of the valves are bent from hitting the pistons.

The only thing I can think of is to pull number 1 spark plug, get the screwdriver, and set the engine to TDC. Check to see if the crankshaft pulley lines line up with the mark on the block. Then pull off VC and see where the hole on the cam gear is located. It should be like almost at 3 on a clock. Then pull off distributor cap and see where the rotor tip is facing. It should face between 3 and 4 on a clock. Closer to 4.

Have you tried rotating by hand to see if the hole on the cam gear mates with the colored link? It took me 17 rotations for the hole to mate with the color link and the lines on the crankshaft pulley matched and the rotor tip was facing almost at 4 every time.

Let us know your progress.. Hope all turns out well..

[Kaiba]

Thanks for the helpful reply drewusmaximus. If you still have a rattle, and are sure it's the chain causing it, perhaps the piston that applies pressure to the tensioner isn't getting the oil pressure it needs. Or could be faulty? Don't quote me but I think that's how it works, first off of spring then by oil pressure once the motor get's going.

Back on my issue...
so I just kept turning the crank and found actual TDC. Had a mechanic come verify. And everything aligned as it should. So I put it all back together by the book, and no ignition. fuck.

Every about 17 rotations I do, will align the cam gear mark at 12 o clock, with the chain link and chain mark on the cam gear also lined up pointing to about 3. The crank pulley also lines up at the 0* mark as it should. So all seems right in relations to the chain position as well as cam and crank gears.

This seems like I could've installed the oil pump/dizzy shaft wrong? I've read that incorrect installation can go as far as to make a Ka24e not even start. So I took it out. Have everything currently realigned as pictured below:

Cam gear is good. The crank pulley is also at 0* I just couldn't get a picture though fan shroud.


Dizzy shaft.


Distributor rotor now points 4ish

[drewusmaximus]

The rotor looks in the correct position. What I did was marked the motor tip direction to the housing with nail polish because I knew once I pulled out the oil pump there was a big chance the gear on the oil pump will move due to handling it off the motor, which of course moved!! So, since the oil pump connects to the dizzy, I installed the dizzy first and pointed the rotor tip to where I marked it. Then went under and carefully slid in the oil pump until it connected with the dizzy. The rotor moved a little but, there's only one direction the oil pump can connect to the dizzy. It's a matter of the oil pump gear mating with the crankshaft gear and the rotor pointing in the correct direction. But, I added assembly lube on the timing chain and in the oil pump to avoid a dry start. I also marked the dizzy housing to avoid advancing or retarding the timing. When I mounted the dizzy, I mounted it exactly in the same position it was based on the markings with the nail polish.
I can't think of anything else that would make the car run rough unless there's an intake hose somewhere that is not connected.

are all plugs that you disconnected plugged in?
Are the small canister hoses connected in the proper places?
Are the spark plug wires connected in the proper order on the dizzy cap?

Hopefully you will figure out the problem.
When you do let us know

[Kaiba]

Alllllllllrighty then.

Went down the checklist:
All the plugs are indeed connected.
all hoses plugged in the way they originally where.
to my knowledge all the plug wires are connected properly at both ends.

I just fired it up tonight. Started right up instantly! So that's a step in the right direction. Sounded scary rough right off the bat though. I only let it run about 10 seconds out of fear of hurting the motor. I'll try again tomorrow morning and see if letting it run maybe lets it get going correctly again.

Is starting rough like this just a symptom of a dry start, or air pockets, or something like that?

[drewusmaximus]

Are there any leaks under the car?
Did you take off the oil pan? If so, did you put back the oil pickup tube with the O ring?

Have you cleaned out the intake and injectors with Gummout, not Seafoam?
People think Seafoam is great but, it was originally designed for two stroke motors. So it won't fulfill it's job since out engines are not two stroke. Works great on lawnmowers and boat engines but, Gummout is what you want to use.

Pull the intake hose form the brake booster, pour a 3rd of the can of Gummout into a bowl, have someone start the car and as you put the hose into the bowl, SLOWLY suck the fluid from the bowl, little at a time. At the same time have a friend maintain idle so the car doesn't shut off. Once the formula is completely sucked in, turn off car (plug hose back on the brake booster). Leave car off for about 10 minutes. Start car and rev up and down to 2500RPMS for a few minutes. Warning: There will be a lot of smoke coming out of your tail pipe. Be considerate about your neighbors. Within 5 minutes the smoke will end. What that process does is clean out your intake system i.e., ICV, ERG, etc.. You can do it a few more times to really clean out the intake system. Take another 3rd of the bottle and pour in gas tank to clean out gas lines, filter, and injectors. Make sure you have at least a half tank of gas. Take the last third of the bottle, along with a third of a bottle of tranny fluid and pour in engine 50 miles before changing your oil. The tranny fluid will enhance the engine cleansing process.
Note: When Gumming out your intake, after you start the car, if you see white smoke anywhere in the engine, you have an intake leak. If you see smoke anywhere under the car besides the exhaust pipes, you have an exhaust leak.

Check your anti freeze to see if there's oil mixed in it. If so, then one of the two gaskets that go in the timing chain cover probably didn't seat correctly and might be causing the rough idle.

I always noticed every time I complete one job something else goes wrong, which makes me assume the job I worked on, somehow went wrong but, it didn't, which is why I mentioned cleaning the intake.

Also check your injectors. and make sure your spark plugs are fastened.
I started my car two days ago and it ran very rough. I thought, Uh oh.... What now!! Turns out, spark plugs three and four were very loose!
Tightened them up and she was back at idling at 750rpms.

Keep us updated..

[drewusmaximus]

One more thing. One of the members recommended me to pull off the VC and start the car to see if 1. I have oil pressure (oil will be splattering if oil pump is working (VERY MESSY)). 2. you can also check your valve train to make sure rockers and valves are functional. Definitely want to make sure your oil pump is working so that the engine doesn't starve.

[Nissan2nr22]

When we did my HG i marked everything and timing was still off, was overheating etc......

Use a timing gun to reset the timing

I just paid my friends shop $40 to do it, i doubt its going to be much more, find a local shop and have them do it if you cant

[drewusmaximus]

agreed. Or buy a timing gun. it's a good investment.

[Kaiba]

Thanks guys, I was considering heading out to pick up a timing gun this week to fine tune my timing anyways. I'll probably be using it a lot owning s13's haha.

The thing that really narrows down the possibilities though, is that the car ran fine before the timing chain job. So if I can't solve the issue with the timing gun, I'm thinking I fucked up somewhere during reassembly. Hopefully the oil pickup is all good, that was the worst thing I think I've ever done.

[Kaiba]

So, of course now that I own a timing gun, the motor no longer wants to start. The thing seems like it wants to start right up, but instead just shakes violently and maybe sputters once or twice at best.

>All spark plugs are pretty new NGK's, I just put them in a few months ago.
>plug wires on dizzy cap are (1,3,4,2) in clockwise order.
>No visible leaks anywhere
>Double checked all hoses and plugs where connected properly
>Tried moving the distributor to different positions but had no effect.

[drewusmaximus]

Are you getting fuel? Are all the injectors seated correctly and plugged in? Is the engine cranking or is it just spinning?
I had a BMW E30 and tried to do the timing belt. Started right up but had a leak at the new water pump. Resealed the water pump and when I tried to start it up again, I had no compression at any of the cylinders. So, I blew the engine due to the timing.

If you have compression while it's trying to start that's a good sign. But, it might be fuel related

What did you change since the last time you started the engine?

[Kaiba]

Haven't touched anything since last time. I did have to use jumper cables when starting it however, the battery was dead since last I checked. have it on the charger for now. Gonna try it again in a bit.

The motor is cranking though, yeah

[andrewxxcarlson]

Originally Posted by Kaiba

So, of course now that I own a timing gun, the motor no longer wants to start. The thing seems like it wants to start right up, but instead just shakes violently and maybe sputters once or twice at best.

>All spark plugs are pretty new NGK's, I just put them in a few months ago.
>plug wires on dizzy cap are (1,3,4,2) in clockwise order.
>No visible leaks anywhere
>Double checked all hoses and plugs where connected properly
>Tried moving the distributor to different positions but had no effect.

Isn't the ka24e dizzy wires...
43
21

Rotor spins counter clockwise.

[Kaiba]

Are they? Previous owner could have switched them up while dicking around the motor. I've never changed them myself.

[andrewxxcarlson]

Originally Posted by Kaiba

Are they? Previous owner could have switched them up while dicking around the motor. I've never changed them myself.

This is what I've learned, and that's how my dizzy is setup. Try that and get back to us.

[Kaiba]

Went out and got pictures for confirmation. Are the plugs wired incorrectly? It looks okay to me.

[andrewxxcarlson]

Those are correct.

[drewusmaximus]

Do you still have the rattle?

[Kaiba]

I finally got the damn dizzy all set up right. Had a mechanic give me some professional advice. Still have no power, lifters are suddenly noisy as hell, thats never happened before. Ideas? I do still have to timing gun it.

[Kaiba]

After much dicking about. Turns out in the end it was the dizzy. It was off a few teeth, and the motor needed to be advanced about 16 degrees in timing. All runs good now, no overheats, the power is there.

I guess this goes to show how important it is to mark this fucking thing before you remove it.


Thanks a ton to everyone for your help.