Israel Invading Palestine

[lewisfk]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Dude wtf are you going on about. 1. The U.S. Is not and has never attacked the Palestinians. We do not owe them anything. Israel is our ally but it does not mean we tell them what to do, or owe for what they do. In fact they quite often do as they please as do several of our other allies like the French. Who I might add sell tech and weapons to countries that are pretty much hostile towards the U.S.

You really either are completely ignorant of geopolitics and mid eastern politics or you are just choosing to obtuse for the sake of argument.
What is going on right now was instigated by a kidnaping and killing of 3 Israeli teenagers by the radical Islamic group Hamas. This is Hamas's actions that have caused retaliation leading to escalation. The Israeli offered a cease fire and the Hamas rejected it. Once again like I said earlier the Palestinians are being used as Pawns by the radical Islamists and Arab countries.

I said this earlier if the Palestinians could screw together a manageable government not overrun by radical Islamic Jihadists they might have a fighting chance at establishing a homeland. Just throwing money a them does not work and is part of or failed foreign policy in that region in the past.

You can't fix something that is not willing to change or be fixed . No appeasing, no apologies harsh cold reality in your face.

14 years of military service with 2.5 years served in the middle east, horn of Africa and a few other countries, thats how I can make that statement. Regardless who is right or wrong in comes down to money and future strategic endeavors. The Palestinians have attached Americans, in Iraq and Afghanistan. Its great see people talking about the world's problems but many of you are nuking it.

[lewisfk]

If the Palestinians truly wanted peace they would allow the U.S. to establish a small base or conduct operations to destroy Hamas. What do you think DRIFT?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by lewisfk

If the Palestinians truly wanted peace they would allow the U.S. to establish a small base or conduct operations to destroy Hamas. What do you think DRIFT?

Egypt is siding with Israel on this one.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...lict/13043353/

[redline racer510]

Killing 8 civilian to get 1 criminal is pretty messed up.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by redline racer510

Killing 8 civilian to get 1 criminal is pretty messed up.

But it's okay when the US does it?

Their called collateral damage. You realize those civilians elected HAMAS, so it's effectively their own governed putting them I harms way so they get killed. This way HAMAS can make them into politics martyrs on the media and get world opinion against Israel.


HAMAS has no power to stop the blockade. But if they can get stupid Americans to be outraged that the Israelis bombed a school that was launching motors...

...then maybe the US will intervene on HAMAS's behalf and force Israel to lift sanctions...

[redline racer510]

Collective punishment for what a few people do, say or think isn't right

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by redline racer510

Collective punishment for what a few people do, say or think isn't right

But the Israelis are not punishing them.
They just happen to be in buildings that are attacking Israelis and the Israelis are returning fire.

The US has killed millions of civilians in our wars. You never hear about it because highlighting it doesn't support our agenda.

Fuck Obama signed the order to drop a rocket on an American citizen with his 12 year old son in the truck while driving down the road in Yemen.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by redline racer510

Collective punishment for what a few people do, say or think isn't right

I relaly don't think you are grasping what is going on here at all..........

If someone fires a "hostile" missile in your direction and continues to fire, are you going to sit back and wait hoping the person(s) who fired the missile appear on radar??

When you are begin a "war", collatoral damage is going to occur.

As the saying goes: Don't poke a sleeping lion in the eye.

And I will flip it for you then: For the settlements that Israel setup, is the punishment to kidnapp and kill 3 Israeli children??

I didn't think so...........

[redline racer510]

Wait I'm not trying to justify anyone's death.Having settlers kick you out of your house claiming god gave them the land while israeli soldiers watch as your home is being bulldozed with a short amount of time given to retrieve your belongings, your saying you would sit there and do nothing?

Didn't think so....BTW I don't mean go out hurting or killing anyone.

Don't get me wrong killing on both sides is in reprehensible and it is wrong for either side to do so.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by lewisfk

If the Palestinians truly wanted peace they would allow the U.S. to establish a small base or conduct operations to destroy Hamas. What do you think DRIFT?

I would tend to agree with you Lewis. . Though like I said earlier they are being used as Pawns as you know is truth. I think their biggest problem is the fact that they have allowed themselves to used as pawns as as well.

The U.S. Is pretty much screwed when it comes to the Middle East . We are damned if we don't do anything in most cases and damned if we do. The largest problem we have over their is most of them do not play by the rules.

I also respect the fact of your service Lewis and it indeed does give you another perspective being their on the front lines if not very close by vs us here.

Once people start realizing that there is pretty much no country in the world that has not done something despicable towards their fellow man is the exact moment where movement towards change can actually happen. Both sides in the current conflict have created legitimate beef except for the fact that provocateur is the ultimate at fault.
In this sense what the U.S. did in the case of Iraq in the last war was unprecedented in our history. We have never been the provocateur . We have always come from a valid position of us or our allies being attacked first.

Our geopolitical stance was largely destroyed by Cheney,Rumsfeld and George W.
Hence the issues we faced previous to their actions were amplified and made harder.

Sorry guys if that pushed a little off the main topic it's just how I feel as an American.

[J3123MY]

Once people start realizing that there is pretty much no country in the world that has not done something despicable towards their fellow man

Lol. I was wondering if Switzerland has done something despicable?

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by J3123MY

Lol. I was wondering if Switzerland has done something despicable?

Well actually they have in the sense that while they remained neutral they sell Arms to all sides thereby contributing to conflagration. Which means they are not exactly innocent like they might try to portray.
If you give a gun to someone knowing they will use it to kill someone and knowing they actually have you are an accessory to the crime by fact. The Swiss were accessories in WWII by fact.

You will not win this, no country is innocent because man is not innocent. It's just a sliding scale from better to worse.

[redline racer510]

I think Palestinians would invite the idea of a US base at this point . But I do agree withdrift freak about the bad rep the US has in this part of the world.

[J3123MY]

lol i was just wondering as I never heard of the swiss' evil deeds.

But according the wikipedia, Iceland is the most peaceful country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index

What has iceland done?

[J3123MY]

Well, I guess they were vikings right?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

In this sense what the U.S. did in the case of Iraq in the last war was unprecedented in our history. We have never been the provocateur . We have always come from a valid position of us or our allies being attacked first.

Spanish American War - the provocation was fake, being the sinking of the USS Maine was actually a mechanical failure and not a Spanish plot. Granted it was only contestable at the time, but it's now a proven fact.

I would say we get drawn into stuff because we like sticking our fingers in it. Vietnam, Korea, WWI even WWII; had the US exercised different approaches, opinions or policies we would have never been involved. (for better or worse). But how much of that is hindsight 20-20?

[lewisfk]

The U.S. will always be at war, we will not call it war but the Patriots who choose to sign on the dotted line and fight will. I would like to address the gangs, and hate groups within the U.S. Instead of worrying about a Middle East problem that will never truly work itself out. -Charles Darwin-

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by lewisfk

The U.S. will always be at war, we will not call it war but the Patriots who choose to sign on the dotted line and fight will. I would like to address the gangs, and hate groups within the U.S. Instead of worrying about a Middle East problem that will never truly work itself out. -Charles Darwin-

Sure thing buddy. Unfortunately your life style is dependent upon us meddling with world affairs. You don't consume 70% of the world resources by locking yourself in the back room.

Gangs? Legalize drugs - solved.

[No 240.. No id]

This war been going for more than 45 years. However both of these people are EVIL. Not bad but evil, they both deserve each other.

Speaking as an Arabic person ( from Iraq) these people send theur jehadist palastine youngsters to fight and kill my people in Iraq simply because we are a bit different religion.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by No 240.. No id

This war been going for more than 45 years. However both of these people are EVIL. Not bad but evil, they both deserve each other.



Speaking as an Arabic person ( from Iraq) these people send theur jehadist palastine youngsters to fight and kill my people in Iraq simply because we are a bit different religion.

Shiites and Sunnis are the new Catholics and Protestants bro!

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Shiites and Sunnis are the new Catholics and Protestants bro!

Lol Ironic but fairly good analogy. Yes it is dark humor but pretty much true.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Shiites and Sunnis are the new Catholics and Protestants bro!

They have been fighting since the Prophet Mohamed died in the 7th century.

[No 240.. No id]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Shiites and Sunnis are the new Catholics and Protestants bro!

Not exactly. According to my religion (shiite) any one that kill another (for ANY reason) then hell will be waiting for him.

Its not exactly sunnis that fighting and killing, but its people that uses that name. In Iraq we have all different religions, sunnis, shiite, catholic, protestants and wayy more amd we all live happly together.

But thanks to saudis, libyans and afgans not anymore. These people are making a bad name for Islam, they dont even know what islam is, but thanks to cnn and fox news make it sounds like muslims are the #1 public enemy.

Why all this people are fighting there? It is way more like politics than a religion.

I'm replyin using my phone, so try to my igonre grammar.

[No 240.. No id]

Originally Posted by S14DB

They have been fighting since the Prophet Mohamed died in the 7th century.

Not correct. If you look at it to recently, (2000) before the US invaded Iraq, there is no such a thing as a Sunni and Shiite.

Aftere the US left Iraq, all the boarders opened for every and anyone to go there and do just about any thing they wish.

These fighters are supported morally and financially by Saudi, Qatar and Turkey.

[redline racer510]

That's exactly the problem. There are few bad apples mis-representing the majority which the media likes to exploit for the sake of sensationalism. These crazy nuts have taken religion hostage for their own interest.

[Frank_Jaeger]

Originally Posted by No 240.. No id

This war been going for more than 45 years. However both of these people are EVIL. Not bad but evil, they both deserve each other.

Speaking as an Arabic person ( from Iraq) these people send theur jehadist palastine youngsters to fight and kill my people in Iraq simply because we are a bit different religion.

I wish I had a nonbiased understanding of the Middle East.

[lewisfk]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Sure thing buddy. Unfortunately your life style is dependent upon us meddling with world affairs. You don't consume 70% of the world resources by locking yourself in the back room.

Gangs? Legalize drugs - solved.

Gangs are nothing but domestic terrorist, same as hate groups. We need to address our Country's violence and corruption. I don't care who we go to war with or conflict we decide to meddle in. I would like this Country to evolve! We need to export not import! Chemical/ Biological / Mechanical Engineers/ Physicist!

You cant force other Countries to change, but you can manipulate them into changing. You do this by being technically superior. Sell them the idea, the hope, and they will find the means to change.

Every few years we broker a deal between the Palestine and Israel for what? This is a vicious cycle of killing, I wish the U.S. picks a side and we end it.

Corbic, locking myself in a room! That's funny, it reminds me of what our politicians do.

[deolio]

there is no solution to the conflict. /thread

[tiggertsi]

Originally Posted by lewisfk

We need to address our Country's violence and corruption.

everyday i see people disregard simple laws (like speed limits) just because they can get away with it. and yet these same people expect the government and corporate interests to not do the same thing. maybe the corruption actually starts with the populace at large, including me.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by lewisfk

Gangs are nothing but domestic terrorist, same as hate groups.

Can you link me to the last gang suicide bombing?

What "hate groups" are you talking about, Green Peace and PITA?

Gangs are criminal organizations built around making money by selling drugs, prostitution and gambling. The violence arises out of the fact that they are conducting illegal business - so when someone rips you off you can't call the police or file a corporate lawsuit. Instead you break legs and kill people.

You also have an entire group of people who have been culturally brainwashed for the last 30 years into the Hood Mentality. This why at 16 they don't care if they gotta do 15 years to prove their manhood.

This mentality isn't going to change because of Government intervention. That is, unless you mean to round these unsupervised youths up and send them to boot camps and state run facilitates like some sort of Philip K DIck future dystopia.