Lets talk SR dry sump setups - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

d9m13n · 04-29-2018, 12:28 PM

Been doing some research on setting up dry sump oiling on my sr. Looks like theres 3 off the shelf options, the mazworx kit at $3.6k, the Ross performance kit at about $4k (currently unavailable, dont know whether it will be back) and the Naprec big baller kit at about $9k. Key differences, mazworx and naprec both mount the pump where the alternator sits on the right hand side of the engine. The ross kit claims to sit it on the left hand side, where the ac compressor would be. You can also buy a mount kit from savy motorsport that mounts a pump on the left hand side. Pro/con wise, looks like mazworx and naprec mount on the right so that the exhaust mani/turbo heat wont affect the oil as much. Also less lines to get in the way. However, the mazworx kit doesnt seem to offer an alternator relocate bracket which seems odd, youre left ass out with no place to put the alt while everything else is bolt on. They do offer a relocate bracket for $275, but you also need a fwd alternator to run it. Naprec kit provides everything youd need. Ross doesnt see this issue with the left hand mounting. Seems like either way the ps pump is unaffected, but I cant find a definitive answer to this.
The other big component is the pan, you can either buy the armstrong race engineering pan, or the ross pan. ARE faces the right, while the ross pan faces left. This just further opens up your options.

Most likely what I will be doing, and hoping to open up conversation here about, is piecing together my own setup. Lightly used 4 stage pump on ebay at a huge discount (left or right handed). Most likely ARE pan, used tank, new lines etc etc.
Anyone else done this? or have experience with any kits? Im fairly new to the technical aspects of this and hopefully open up some discussion like I said. Anything I need to specifically look for when choosing a pump? Brackets can always be custom made so thats not necessarily an issue.
People who have dry sump setups on their sr's or just in general please chime in! Trying to gather as much info as I can as I really start looking into this.

tuzzio · 04-30-2018, 08:08 AM

Before you go jumping into a huge project like this, What are your goals with the SR? Plenty of people running high HP SR's with a much more simple and cost effective set up.

d9m13n · 04-30-2018, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuzzio

Before you go jumping into a huge project like this, What are your goals with the SR? Plenty of people running high HP SR's with a much more simple and cost effective set up.

Goals for the next year or so are a 550-600whp vvl build for track/time attack. I was going to go super simple and run a crankscraper kit and a canton racing pan, but started looking into this a lot more when I saw how cost effective used pumps are. Seems like it could be something pieced together over time while the engine itself is being built, but im purely speculating for now.

hanzbrady · 04-30-2018, 09:14 AM

The reason the Mazworx kit doesn't feature an alternator relocation is because it was designed with drag racing in mind where alternators aren't used.

After selling a few of the kits you mentioned I can assure you that the Mazworx kit is the most complete and straightforward, making your own alternator bracket won't be too bad this is common to have to do when doing mods like this.

You're also more than welcome to piece your own kit together but it will take time and R&D on your part which at the end of the day is worth money as well but how much is up to you. The only downside to doing it yourself is not knowing if it will all work as planned and when it comes to an oiling system that's a brave risk to take.

tuzzio · 05-01-2018, 08:11 AM

I would never run a used oil pump from someone else.

Not everybody is a good person.

d9m13n · 05-01-2018, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuzzio

I would never run a used oil pump from someone else.

Not everybody is a good person.

Not too hard to open them up and check the condition. Or test run them to make sure pressure is good and consistent. Most manufacturers offer factory spec rebuilds, scp/Weaver do it for $65 which is pretty much nothing.

RalliartRsX · 05-01-2018, 12:35 PM

I would recommend going with a full kit like Mazworx or Ross. Reason being various pumps are specced for various stages of scavenge for instance, so mix and matching pieces, you need to be very careful of pumps and pump design

And this does not get into the pan design. In some cases, running a 2 stage scavenge or 3 stage actually does not fully or properly evacuate the crankcase. Remember, pumps and scavenge are designed in unison. So this makes it even more difficult to mix and match as items are simply NOT compatible regardless of it is from the same manufacturer.

Too many variables to be mix and matching especially with your limited knowledge on the topic as it stands.

There is about a 98% chance you do not need a dry sump. However, if you want a proper way to burn through several thousands, purchases a full kit. Save yourself the headache and blown engines.

It sounds simple on paper, but if you haven't built a VET yes, building a dry sump system should be at the bottom of your list as far as requirements. Get the engine down first. Figure out what tires you are running, your specs, everything. If you are on serious time attack aero (think close to unlimited) and 100 TW tires, then you will begin to see the need (at which point, tires are $1200 a set per event and you wont be worried about piecing together and saving money.........)

EFITTZY · 05-01-2018, 01:31 PM

If you really are planning on going VVL I would suggest getting that setup in the car and running before you jump into a dry sump setup.

Not sure the extent of your research, but a sr20/22vet setup is quite involved, and very expensive in its self. You sound very ambitious(not hating,) so if you are going to move forward on this I applaud you. "Lightly used" could mean anything... So I agree with tuzzio I wouldn't recommend running a used pump.

interested to see what other info fellow zilvians contribute as I would like to learn more myself

d9m13n · 05-01-2018, 01:35 PM

You’re totally right, most likely I won’t need a dry sump at all. And it’s definitely something I’ll sort out after I get the vet together anyways. But all that is exactly the kind of info I was looking for by starting this thread. Love the discussion! FYI though, I am running 305 width continental slicks on the rear and matching 265s up front, so the grip once the cars back on the road ( and track)may very well necessitate investing in the setup lol

d9m13n · 05-01-2018, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFITTZY

If you really are planning on going VVL I would suggest getting that setup in the car and running before you jump into a dry sump setup.

Not sure the extent of your research, but a sr20/22vet setup is quite involved, and very expensive in its self. You sound very ambitious(not hating,) so if you are going to move forward on this I applaud you. "Lightly used" could mean anything... So I agree with tuzzio I wouldn't recommend running a used pump.

interested to see what other info fellow zilvians contribute as I would like to learn more myself

Definitely really ambitious but I have the means and the timeframe to get it done. Again this thread was mostly for gathering info and seeing what everyone has to say, was going to ask about it in the VVL thread but didn’t want to derail it.

Kingtal0n · 05-03-2018, 12:24 PM

Why not an accumulator? Much cheaper and serves a similar function. Saves the motor from starvation and low-pressure cold starts. There are also some accumulators that can be set to run after shutdown to preserve the life of the turbo. Borg Warner engineer says that this would double the life of their turbos for example.

Only advantage I see to some dry sump setups is that the engine can get upside down for an extended period of time. That and the obvious crankcase ventillation/oilsystem improvements. Having crankcase vacuum that doesn't pull against a wet sump oil pump I guess. It just seems a huge hassle though, considering it has nothing to do with 'power' unless you are restricted to a specific engine. I.e. an LSx could make 1000 horsepower with a wet sump and nothing special done to the oil system. So in an unlimited class you wouldn't say "oh I need a dry sump to make 1k horsepower" you would just use the right engine.

RalliartRsX · 05-03-2018, 12:50 PM

Dry sumps have 3 inherent

1) Engine height
2) Crankcase Vacuum (crankcase oil "cloud")
3) Combatting Oil Starvation for Extremely high lateral grip (think huge super soft slicks and several hundred to several thousand lbs of downforce)

04-30-2018, 09:14 AM	#4
hanzbrady Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Floriduh Posts: 1,166 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	The reason the Mazworx kit doesn't feature an alternator relocation is because it was designed with drag racing in mind where alternators aren't used. After selling a few of the kits you mentioned I can assure you that the Mazworx kit is the most complete and straightforward, making your own alternator bracket won't be too bad this is common to have to do when doing mods like this. You're also more than welcome to piece your own kit together but it will take time and R&D on your part which at the end of the day is worth money as well but how much is up to you. The only downside to doing it yourself is not knowing if it will all work as planned and when it comes to an oiling system that's a brave risk to take. __________________ [email protected]

05-01-2018, 01:31 PM	#8
EFITTZY Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: I n d i a n a Age: 28 Posts: 349 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If you really are planning on going VVL I would suggest getting that setup in the car and running before you jump into a dry sump setup. Not sure the extent of your research, but a sr20/22vet setup is quite involved, and very expensive in its self. You sound very ambitious(not hating,) so if you are going to move forward on this I applaud you. "Lightly used" could mean anything... So I agree with tuzzio I wouldn't recommend running a used pump. interested to see what other info fellow zilvians contribute as I would like to learn more myself __________________ (づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ T E A M B L O O M

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04-30-2018, 08:08 AM	#2
tuzzio Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Western Mass. Posts: 2,604 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Before you go jumping into a huge project like this, What are your goals with the SR? Plenty of people running high HP SR's with a much more simple and cost effective set up.

05-01-2018, 08:11 AM	#5
tuzzio Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Western Mass. Posts: 2,604 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	I would never run a used oil pump from someone else. Not everybody is a good person.

05-01-2018, 12:35 PM	#7
RalliartRsX Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 4,791 Trader Rating: (32) Feedback Score: 32 reviews	I would recommend going with a full kit like Mazworx or Ross. Reason being various pumps are specced for various stages of scavenge for instance, so mix and matching pieces, you need to be very careful of pumps and pump design And this does not get into the pan design. In some cases, running a 2 stage scavenge or 3 stage actually does not fully or properly evacuate the crankcase. Remember, pumps and scavenge are designed in unison. So this makes it even more difficult to mix and match as items are simply NOT compatible regardless of it is from the same manufacturer. Too many variables to be mix and matching especially with your limited knowledge on the topic as it stands. There is about a 98% chance you do not need a dry sump. However, if you want a proper way to burn through several thousands, purchases a full kit. Save yourself the headache and blown engines. It sounds simple on paper, but if you haven't built a VET yes, building a dry sump system should be at the bottom of your list as far as requirements. Get the engine down first. Figure out what tires you are running, your specs, everything. If you are on serious time attack aero (think close to unlimited) and 100 TW tires, then you will begin to see the need (at which point, tires are $1200 a set per event and you wont be worried about piecing together and saving money.........)

05-03-2018, 12:24 PM	#11
Kingtal0n Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Florida Age: 41 Posts: 4,828 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	Why not an accumulator? Much cheaper and serves a similar function. Saves the motor from starvation and low-pressure cold starts. There are also some accumulators that can be set to run after shutdown to preserve the life of the turbo. Borg Warner engineer says that this would double the life of their turbos for example. Only advantage I see to some dry sump setups is that the engine can get upside down for an extended period of time. That and the obvious crankcase ventillation/oilsystem improvements. Having crankcase vacuum that doesn't pull against a wet sump oil pump I guess. It just seems a huge hassle though, considering it has nothing to do with 'power' unless you are restricted to a specific engine. I.e. an LSx could make 1000 horsepower with a wet sump and nothing special done to the oil system. So in an unlimited class you wouldn't say "oh I need a dry sump to make 1k horsepower" you would just use the right engine.

05-03-2018, 12:50 PM	#12
RalliartRsX Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 4,791 Trader Rating: (32) Feedback Score: 32 reviews	Dry sumps have 3 inherent 1) Engine height 2) Crankcase Vacuum (crankcase oil "cloud") 3) Combatting Oil Starvation for Extremely high lateral grip (think huge super soft slicks and several hundred to several thousand lbs of downforce)