U.S. Gun Control discussion

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ineedone

Hmmm... riiiiight. What has this administration done? I have seen gun rights (to a certain extent) expanded.

They passed health care without a single vote. They passed 3 multi trillion dollar spending bills.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ineedone

Jews with guns vs. the Nazi military? hmm... Jews still lose that one too. The guns would have had little to no effect on the holocaust. Remember it took 3 countries and a world war to stop the Nazis (not to mention they over ran the Russians who had guns, the polish who had guns, the french who had guns etc, etc, etc). But hey, the small minority of Jews would have stopped them with guns right? I swear the idiocy of these arguments is staggering.

Nazi Military?

You mean the German police that round them up?

The Polish and French did not have guns. Europe has never had a strong history of gun ownership. Gun Ownership really grew in the great frontier and untamed "new world" where oppressive Governments had little control.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by K_style

Tell that to that Piers Morgan Fuck face..

He's not even an American.

He's opinion is about as valid as Osama Binladen's opinion on women in the workplace.

[bc.]

Originally Posted by ineedone

You really could not look 3 more post down?

browser refresh maybe would have helped, meh.

I still can't tell what you are actually arguing, or maybe you are just here to rouse the stables?

[fliprayzin240sx]

God, where the +posi rep at for Corbic...

I'm not pro or con gun...I'm in the middle. My mentality has always been, if somebody wants to hurt somebody, they will find ways to do so. Take away guns, they'll find the next best option, may it be hammers, baseball bat, run you over with their cars, etc...

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by bc.

browser refresh maybe would have helped, meh.

I still can't tell what you are actually arguing, or maybe you are just here to rouse the stables?

I think he is one of Obama's cronies here to tell everyone "HEY, CALM DOWN, NOTHING TO SEE HERE! You can keep your guns and bibles". All the while they are doing everything possible to end gun ownership in America.

[7RIFT0]

People that are law abiding citizen do not want a universal background check and don't want to be featured in a list or database. I heard a quote from Wayne Lapierre that states "There’s only two reasons for a federal list on gun owners: to either tax ‘em or take ‘em". And by that he means; in history, when a government tries to enact something such as this, the next step is taking our weapons.

Originally Posted by ineedone

What? Executive orders are orders... they are signed and that is it.

By the way, can anyone tell me which one is the scary one that has all the RWNJs in all a tiff? most of these seem... eh...



Here is a quote from forbes describing the executive orders

so really, what is the big deal? why is there so much bitching about nothing? Oh, black guy.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by Corbic

They passed health care without a single vote. They passed 3 multi trillion dollar spending bills.

And somehow they still have not come to take your guns! They did vote on healthcare... it was debated for over 2 years. Just because the final bill was enormous and not many had full read it does not mean that it was just clumped together over night. You do realize that right? I mean healthcare was a major issue for a long time.

And all those other spending bills - passed by congress so... is your point that sometimes congress does things you do not like? just because you do not like it does not make it unconstitutional... and if it was it would be struck down in the courts... so... what are you trying to say exactly?

Originally Posted by Corbic

Nazi Military?

You mean the German police that round them up?

The Polish and French did not have guns. Europe has never had a strong history of gun ownership. Gun Ownership really grew in the great frontier and untamed "new world" where oppressive Governments had little control.

The SS, the brown shirts, etc. you know those guys were considered paramilitary forces...wait, you do know that right? The Nazi party had both a defense force as well as a paramilitary force. There was the Wehrmacht which was the military and then the different branches (luftwaffe, Waffen, etc. - if I remember correctly 10th grade history was awhile ago...) underneath it. Holy shit I did not think this was going to turn into history 101...



The Polish and French had an army right? The Brits had a military... and well... they got pooped on too. The Russians though... can you explain that? I guess the Russians had no history of gun ownership... yeah that is what it was... not that the Nazi's were an enormous fighting force that were ruthless, yeah that probably had nothing to do with it at all. How much derp derp do you have left? It has been a slow few days of work, but I really did not expect to have to teach you basic shit you should have learned even if you slept through basic history. Oh right, RWNJ - did Glenn Beck tell you real history or something?

[7RIFT0]

[QUOTE=HyperTek;5109063]Heard 2 gun shots last night at separate times. Thought nothing of it, looked outside after the 2nd shot and saw some shadow walk by outside our fence. I figured if nothing goes down, then I won't worry about it.
This morning I learn that someone shot my neighbor's car , bullet hole in the trunk. Broke the rear windshield, went through the rear and driver's seat. Not cool at all.

Did you have your gun to defend yourself and/or your family?

[K_style]

Originally Posted by 7RIFT0

People that are law abiding citizen do not want a universal background check and don't want to be featured in a list or database.

But list of gun owners is public record. Anyone can get it and look for who owns gun. At least here in Liberal state Oregon.

[K_style]

Originally Posted by Corbic

He's not even an American.

He's opinion is about as valid as Osama Binladen's opinion on women in the workplace.

That's why we tell him to Fuck off and leave this shit to American.

He came from the country where gun law is failed and violence has gone up significantly after government banned owning guns.

Fuck that.

This is AMERICA !!!!

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by Corbic

I think he is one of Obama's cronies here to tell everyone "HEY, CALM DOWN, NOTHING TO SEE HERE! You can keep your guns and bibles". All the while they are doing everything possible to end gun ownership in America.

"everything possible to end gun ownership in america"

fuck it I quit... you are right. The spooks will be at your door in a few minutes. I called Barry Obamz and alerted him that you had weapons. Get ready.

Originally Posted by 7RIFT0

People that are law abiding citizen do not want a universal background check and don't want to be featured in a list or database. I heard a quote from Wayne Lapierre that states "There’s only two reasons for a federal list on gun owners: to either tax ‘em or take ‘em". And by that he means; in history, when a government tries to enact something such as this, the next step is taking our weapons.

Well, you are wrong about people not wanting universal background checks. The universal background check gets HUGE acceptance in every poll (both gun owners and non gun owners).

You are already in list/databases so... ok? If you are on facebook, have ever voted, donated money politically, had a speeding ticket, have a bank account etc., you are on a list. Blame technology for that. So don't worry, they already know!

Wayne LaPierre is a douche who ruins every good argument responsible gun owners have. He is a self interested lobbyist for fire arm producers. He could give 2 shits about any regular gun owner. Again, the main reason for a federal "list" or a registry is because of this stat - ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes.

THATS THE FUCKING PROBLEM RIGHT THERE.... we already have the laws we need on the books... sure some want smaller magazines some do not want assault weapons - I get both sides... but the problem is even if there was a new "great" law there is no one there to enforce it. How crazy does this sound, let the ATF enforce the laws they are there to enforce, that are already on the books...

Inform yourself - frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by K_style

That's why we tell him to Fuck off and leave this shit to American.

He came from the country where gun law is failed and violence has gone up significantly after government banned owning guns.

Fuck that.

This is AMERICA !!!!

Holy Christ.

Leave it to American cheese!

BBC News - Scottish gun crime falls to 32-year low

Ruh-roh... argument failzor 1.

Gun crime statistics by US state: download the data. Visualised | World news | guardian.co.uk

ruh ruh-roh... argument failasaurs 2.

Not saying I agree with a total ban - in this country it could never happen - however, there are some lessons to be learned. Right? Fuck, they are worried about knife crime... FREAKING KNIFE CRIME.

[Mofuhcka]

Originally Posted by ineedone

but the problem is even if there was a new "great" law there is no one there to enforce it.

I can agree with you on that because drug control and immigration control havent done anything, maybe even made it worse. But its still the fact that they are trying to breach OUR rights that were given to us for that exact reason thats stated countless times, to protect ourselves and our families from a tyrannical government, as well as any other threat.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ineedone

THATS THE FUCKING PROBLEM RIGHT THERE.... we already have the laws we need on the books... sure some want smaller magazines some do not want assault weapons - I get both sides....

That is one side. The other side is why are we not identifying and helping the mentally ill - as by and large they make up the "active shooters". Murder is Murder and as many have already said - if I can't shoot my cheating wife, I'll just....

Limiting magazines and "black guns" will do nothing to curb gun violence seeing it's only an average of two shots per crime used ing a gun related crime.

Originally Posted by ineedone

but the problem is even if there was a new "great" law there is no one there to enforce it.

How is it hard to enforce a magazines or black gun ban? How is it hard to enforce a gun confiscation program?

Knowing this Administration - they would just unilaterally create a whole new branch of government - more jobs, more approval, fuck yeah bigger government.

Originally Posted by ineedone

How crazy does this sound, let the ATF enforce the laws they are there to enforce, that are already on the books...

The AFT is not a gun regulator. They are tax collection agency who was supposed to collect taxes on guns, alcohol and tobacco. So it seems to me that would should just disband them already and let the IRS go back to dealing with that directly.

The only thing the AFT consistently does well is kill innocent civilians.



76 people where killed in Waco, 26 of them children, many infants. Who is banning the AFT from having "weapons of war"?


Good thing they shaped up since 1993 - wait.

Fast and Furious - where the AFT GAVE over 2,000 fire arms to the Mexican Cartels in the hopes that they will be collected at crime scenes so they can create some sort of Rico bullshit. These guns have now been recovered at the murder scenes of over 300 Mexican Civilians - but they don't count because their brown.



Remember Fast and Furious

[ineedone]

You spelled ATF wrong...

[ineedone]

All I mean is I see why people would want to limit magazine size and I see the arguments that say that wont do much. Both have merit. Just depends on which angle you are pushing. Same for assault weapons... Guess that is crazy... you know to see both sides of the argument and think both sides are kinda right.

Originally Posted by Corbic

That is one side. The other side is why are we not identifying and helping the mentally ill - as by and large they make up the "active shooters". Murder is Murder and as many have already said - if I can't shoot my cheating wife, I'll just....

Limiting magazines and "black guns" will do nothing to curb gun violence seeing it's only an average of two shots per crime used ing a gun related crime.

Who was saying mental health is not part of the problem? This conversation is based not off a single shooting, but a mass shooting. No one can say, man, I am going to go massacre and murder 30 people with a baseball bat. Last time I checked we have no baseball bat school massacres. That is the major flaw in the argument that people will kill no matter what... it is true, but just how much firepower are we willing to allow people to kill with? I have no idea what the line is I am just saying that is a pressing question.

Originally Posted by Corbic

How is it hard to enforce a magazines or black gun ban? How is it hard to enforce a gun confiscation program?

Here, this is why presently, you cannot enforce any of those things Daily Kos: Must-see: Jon Stewart exposes how the NRA & GOP PREVENT the ATF from enforcing current gun laws

Originally Posted by Corbic

Knowing this Administration - they would just unilaterally create a whole new branch of government - more jobs, more approval, fuck yeah bigger government.

Or.. they considered consolidating the ATF into the FBI... but yeah... BIG GUBMENT? A new branch of government? Hmm, like what? I would like to hear what you know about this...

Originally Posted by Corbic

The AFT is not a gun regulator. They are tax collection agency who was supposed to collect taxes on guns, alcohol and tobacco. So it seems to me that would should just disband them already and let the IRS go back to dealing with that directly.

You got what they are suppose to do wrong too... they are an enforcement arm of Justice that deals with, and get this Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. So that means any federal laws dealing with any of those things within their jurisdiction they get to enforce. Kind of like the DEA gets drugs, ICE gets immigration, etc. Treasury deals with taxes - which has its own Alcohol, Tobacco etc. arm. Wow, how crazy is that? I mean, shoot.

Originally Posted by Corbic

The only thing the AFT consistently does well is kill innocent civilians.


76 people where killed in Waco, 26 of them children, many infants. Who is banning the AFT from having "weapons of war"?


Good thing they shaped up since 1993 - wait.

Fast and Furious - where the AFT GAVE over 2,000 fire arms to the Mexican Cartels in the hopes that they will be collected at crime scenes so they can create some sort of Rico bullshit. These guns have now been recovered at the murder scenes of over 300 Mexican Civilians - but they don't count because their brown.

Well, not that I am defending Waco, but the Branch Doucheians did set fire to their own compound - which killed more people than the ATF did (notably all the children). However, if they are your peeps... then.. uh, ok?

Fast and Furious!!!! WHOA!!! Bush! You mean the US Government runs weapons to nefarious people!!! AHHHHHH IRAN CONTRA.

really man? That's your big slam? Iran

Do some fun research on that. Guns for Drugs dog. Shit got real under Reagan. Just saying.

[ineedone]

Alright Ladies! it has been fun kicking the nest a bit. Check back in a few weeks when work dies back down. Stay off the koolaid.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ineedone

You spelled ATF wrong...

Administration of Fucking Terrorist. I spelt it right.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ineedone

Fast and Furious!!!! WHOA!!! Bush! You mean the US Government runs weapons to nefarious people!!! AHHHHHH IRAN CONTRA.

really man? That's your big slam? Iran

Do some fun research on that. Guns for Drugs dog. Shit got real under Reagan. Just saying.

So what you are saying then is that the precedence is set and it's perfectly ok? You also conveniently confuse an attempt to fund rebels leading a rebellion against dictators we don't like....on a national policy level and a law enforcement agency hoping to rack up some points and prove it's relevance by arresting criminals they created.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by ineedone

Holy Christ.

Leave it to American cheese!

BBC News - Scottish gun crime falls to 32-year low

Ruh-roh... argument failzor 1.

Gun crime statistics by US state: download the data. Visualised | World news | guardian.co.uk

ruh ruh-roh... argument failasaurs 2.

Not saying I agree with a total ban - in this country it could never happen - however, there are some lessons to be learned. Right? Fuck, they are worried about knife crime... FREAKING KNIFE CRIME.

He said violence not gun crimes. You failed because you replied with gun crimes not violent crimes.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...frica-U-S.html

[7RIFT0]

Why will no one listen to me wahhhh

[Mofuhcka]

Originally Posted by S14DB

He said violence not gun crimes. You failed because you replied with gun crimes not violent crimes.



The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online

Great example. Without guns people cannot protect themselves, which leads to higher violence rates. But I dont need to tell you guys that, just look at the chart

[ineedone]

Ok... for real, last post.

Originally Posted by S14DB

He said violence not gun crimes. You failed because you replied with gun crimes not violent crimes.



The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online

Well, no. I replied with an article that cited the police chief of Scottland (or whatever) saying the most pressing violent crime they are dealing with is knife crime... Id rather face a knife then a gun. I think I have a better chance of living there.

FactCheck.org : Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts

Hmm... we have more guns, yet we have more crime and oh noo... more homicide.

But among advanced countries, the U.S. homicide rate stands out. “We seem to be an average country in terms of violence and aggression,” says Harvard’s Hemenway. “What we have is huge homicide rates compared to anybody else.”

Here are better statistics about crime rates NationMaster - Crime stats: United Kingdom vs United States

Take a look at the Rape column. In the United states nearly 54% of rapes go unreported. Reporting Rates | RAINN | Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network

So even these statistics are skewed. But hey, we have the most guns and looky looky the most crime. Total crimes statistics - countries compared - NationMaster Crime

Anything else I am missing here?

[onehundredoctane]

Originally Posted by ineedone

What is the issue with those things? I do not see why there would be a revolt? filling out some forms to much for you idiots?

I'll spell this out for you since you seem to know everything related to firearms.

I have my concealed carry permit, this means I have taken the courses required, applied with the state, the state has performed a background, checked my mental health records thru ANY physician I have ever went to, this includes surgical consults, physicals, etc. Having my conealment means I can walk into any gun store, pawn shop, gun show, or sporting goods store and walk out with any (legally obtainable) firearm I want in the state of North Carolina. I deserve that trust that the state has entrusted me with. I am not a felon. I am not a sex offender and I appreciate being treated as a law abiding citizen. I had the forethought to obtain my conealment for my protection, the protection of my family. But there are others who don't.

Take a woman that finds out her husband has been cheating on her, she files for divorce, and then he begins to make threats against her or their children. (don't say this doesn't happen, because it does frequently) The woman in this situation hasn't had the forethought to obtain her concealment permit, by law she can not purchase a pistol for her protection without a wait period. She can purchase a shotgun or rifle without a wait period ( in the state of NC at least). Now you tell me which one fits in a purse? A pistol or a rifle? The typical waiting period for a concealment permit after filing for it is 90 days.


You're move.

[bc.]

Originally Posted by ineedone

...Again, the main reason for a federal "list" or a registry is because of this stat - ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes.

THATS THE FUCKING PROBLEM RIGHT THERE.... we already have the laws we need on the books...

I don't understand how universal background checks would apply to someone trying to do harm, a criminal. Wouldn't they just buy one illegally?

Originally Posted by ineedone

Ruh-roh... argument failzor 1.

ruh ruh-roh... argument failasaurs 2.

You used failzor and failasaurs in a sentence and you are 27 years old? How many cats do you have?

[onehundredoctane]

Originally Posted by bc.

I don't understand how universal background checks would apply to someone trying to do harm, a criminal. Wouldn't they just buy one illegally?

That's just it, the government is trying to convince the public that are scared of guns that this legislation will get "illegal guns" off of the streets. ITWON'T. This whole thing is just one big scare tactic.

[Mofuhcka]

Originally Posted by onehundredoctane

That's just it, the government is trying to convince the public that are scared of guns that this legislation will get "illegal guns" off of the streets. ITWON'T. This whole thing is just one big scare tactic.

If anything its just gonna put more out there on the street. Supply and demand

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ineedone

Hmm... we have more guns, yet we have more crime and oh noo... more homicide.

We have more blacks and mexicans too...

We have more cars...

We have more income...

We have more video games...

We have more McDonalds....

We have more WalMarts....

We have more Democrates...

We have more square miles....

We have more corn....

......correlation does not mean causation.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by onehundredoctane

Take a woman that finds out her husband has been cheating on her, she files for divorce, and then he begins to make threats against her or their children. (don't say this doesn't happen, because it does frequently) The woman in this situation hasn't had the forethought to obtain her concealment permit, by law she can not purchase a pistol for her protection without a wait period. She can purchase a shotgun or rifle without a wait period ( in the state of NC at least). Now you tell me which one fits in a purse? A pistol or a rifle? The typical waiting period for a concealment permit after filing for it is 90 days.


You're move.

The 15 minute background check I've never had a problem with. Fill out the FFL form, they call the local LEO who verifies you have no convictions, outstanding warrants and are a legal state citizen...

Wait periods... I don't get... has anyone ever run into a gun store and said "I NEED A FUCKING GUN RIGHT NOW.... I GOTTA GO KILL SOMEONE!!".

I would almost say, anyone that is in such a panic and rush to get a gun to kill someone, that they NEED IT RIGHT NOW, would be visually a psychotic mess. At that point the shop could just call the 911.

Other wise... ok, gotta wait 30 days to kill that bitch ex-wife.. no biggie.