Blown Headgasket + Rodknock? HELP IDENTIFY

[mattrobertsxn]

hey guys, i have a ka24de with a fully rebuilt bottom end that has cp pistons and carillo rods, and an oem top end build.

I checked my oil a couple days ago and found out i was running little to no oil in my car since it didnt show anything on the dipstick, and immediately changed the oil. That was 1400 miles and my car was already practically out of oil. I changed it, and today i started listening close up to my motor and got a shit ton of anxiety because i cant tell if my motor is knocking or if my cp pistons are just naturally loud as hell. But you can listen on this video and respond below on your thoughts on what i need to do...
RODKNOCK PROBLEM HERE ---- https://youtu.be/p7py4xSbEQs

as you can see in this video i just uploaded on youtube my car is smoking a shit ton. I dont think its coolant since my car is full of coolant and hasnt overheated at all. I have a feeling its either a headgasket or an intake valve seal. Probably an intake valve seal, and i know a lot of the smoke is from water evaporating, but even when theres not water in it, it burns a lot of oil. generally more while its warm as well.
DIAGNOSE MY SMOKE PROBLEM HERE ---- https://youtu.be/5CQBYLuq9xA

[oscarsx]

Do yourself a favor and get a stethoscope, that way you can listen in and pin point exactly where this noise is coming from. From the video It dosen't sound like a knock, more like valve train noise?

stethoscope and check back!

[S-Verteen]

Does your exhaust smell like coolant? Do you have a milkshake for oil? you can pull the valve cover and check the valve lash pretty easily. could be an exhaust leak!

[brndck]

see this.
https://www.2carpros.com/articles/he...ket-blown-test

[mattrobertsxn]

Originally Posted by S-Verteen

Does your exhaust smell like coolant? Do you have a milkshake for oil? you can pull the valve cover and check the valve lash pretty easily. could be an exhaust leak!

doesnt smell like coolant, no milkshake for oil, and im hoping its an exhaust leak or valve lash. What do you suggest I do? Top end rebuild with new valve train or just rocker arms? I know for a fact it isnt rod knock, I checked for it today by using the screwdriver method thru the spark plugs... Also, should i replace the valve seals to see if that will fix the burning oil problem or immediately resort to the piston seals being the problem? Im trying to prevent myself from having to pull the motor out.
So this is what I plan on doing next:
Get a new valve cover gasket and check for valve lash, if there underadjusted, adjust so the rocker arms are touching the valves and not gapped from the valve.
Look into / Learn about intake valve seals and probably replace them since thats the first thing (i think) i should do to prevent excessive oil getting into the pistons and burning. If you guys didnt see the video, its got worse since then and is blowing insane blue clouds after revving it up while idle, so I dont plan on driving it until I either rebuild the top end or replace valve seals.
Could it be my PCV Valve?
Intake Manifold Gasket?
Valve Seals?
Piston Rings?
What should I purchase or look into first?
Idk tbh im thinking replace valve seals first however i am quite new to the car scene so have patience please thank you.

[mechanicalmoron]

How much oil came out when you changed it? was it metallic?

Cut the filter and see if it's full of tiny flakes of metal - if it is, drop the pan, look for metal, try to shake the bearings.

[mattrobertsxn]

Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron

How much oil came out when you changed it?

Cut the filter and see if it's full of tiny flakes of metal - if it is, drop the pan...

There wasnt any metal shavings when i changed the oil. I dont have the old filter, and a good amount came out i was probably like 1qt down or 1.5. I think i got it at the right time or not im not sure.


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[mechanicalmoron]

Originally Posted by mattrobertsxn

There wasnt any metal shavings when i changed the oil. I dont have the old filter, and a good amount came out i was probably like 1qt down or 1.5. I think i got it at the right time or not im not sure.


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If you have a knock, it's not because of that.

The dipstick is the top quart - you need to keep it full, obviously, but you didn't fry the motor just running it a quart low, unless you did something that might have done it anyway.

[mattrobertsxn]

Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron

If you have a knock, it's not because of that.



The dipstick is the top quart - you need to keep it full, obviously, but you didn't fry the motor just running it a quart low, unless you did something that might have done it anyway.

I dont have a knock i said it in my previous update, i think its something in the valve train. If you watch my youtube video it doesnt sound like its knocking but more of a valve ticking from valve lash. Well see i guess.


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[mechanicalmoron]

Originally Posted by mattrobertsxn

I dont have a knock i said it in my previous update, i think its something in the valve train. If you watch my youtube video it doesnt sound like its knocking but more of a valve ticking from valve lash. Well see i guess.


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I watched your video.

It sounds like a ka... If there's an abnormal noise, it's not distinct enough in your video to tell, you'll have to look under the valve cover and see if something bad happened.

What does the smoke smell like? Have you gotten on it yet? When you say fully rebuilt, you mean checked and/or bored, with pistons sized to fit, with rings set properly?

[mattrobertsxn]

Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron

I watched your video.



It sounds like a ka...

Well even if that is just how a KA sounds like i still have a huge problem with all the oil im burning. Its extremely worse now, so i havent been driving my car at all. Not sure how to attack the problem lmao.


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[mechanicalmoron]

Originally Posted by mattrobertsxn

Well even if that is just how a KA sounds like i still have a huge problem with all the oil im burning. Its extremely worse now, so i havent been driving my car at all. Not sure how to attack the problem lmao.


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You're fast - I realize I covered half of it, and by the time I've edited, you've replied.

Check your PCV, I suppose, but the system is sort of a bitch on a KA, requires the intake off to be properly serviced, and the stock intake with all hoses and bracketry off is harder than just pulling the motor, you'll just hurt yourself and hate life.

Leakdown test would be a good direction.

[mattrobertsxn]

Check your PCV, I suppose, but the system is sort of a bitch on a KA, requires the intake off to be properly serviced, and the stock intake with all hoses and bracketry off is harder than just pulling the motor, you'll just hurt yourself and hate life.

Leakdown test would be a good direction.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. I'll do that first thing tomorrow. I'm most likely pulling the motor and rebuilding the top end with a cometic top end gasket kit from frsport. Ill check and see how hard it is to pull off the stock intake, ive never done it before and just ordered a cold air aem intake a couple hours ago so i could just do it all at once.

edit: well i just watched a video on leakdown tests, and i do not have an air compressor on hand so im not sure what to do. Should i just check pcv valve and pray i dont fxck something up? What do you think because im not the brightest when it comes to pulling things apart and i dont want to make the problem worse because i tried to access the pcv valve lmao.

[mechanicalmoron]

I'd get a normal kit from a normal place, at the rate you're going...

Do whatever the FSM says to diagnose the PCV (and understand that it's a web of crusted-shut hoses and passages under there, and it's all nasty and doesn't work, no matter how much vacuum you think you feel on the breather)

Check compression. (Don't have a compression tester? Buy one - get used to buying lots of tools if you're getting into cars, there's a lot you can't do a thing without, and you don't have any of 'em. Or you can use a parts store loaner tool program)

How much oil is in it now? Did it smoke BEFORE you changed the oil?

Why do you think the bottom end is rebuilt if you haven't had any of this stuff apart? You have to take the top off to get to the bottom, you know? It sort of sounds like a KA, and smokes like a car with an oily pcv. Maybe make sure you didn't way overfill your oil, don't be a wussy and go get it hot, see what happens.

[mattrobertsxn]

Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron

I watched your video.

It sounds like a ka... If there's an abnormal noise, it's not distinct enough in your video to tell, you'll have to look under the valve cover and see if something bad happened.

What does the smoke smell like? Have you gotten on it yet? When you say fully rebuilt, you mean checked and/or bored, with pistons sized to fit, with rings set properly?

just saw this. thats the thing. My older brother is the one that did all the talking when we got the car and the guy had pictures of the car being rebuilt since he (the guy who sold the car) and his friends did it themselves. So i really dont 100% know if its built at all but we took his word i guess, but im still very skeptical lol. I guess ill find out when i pull the valve cover after i do the pcv valve

offtopic: my brakes have been losing pressure and my rotors are either warped or my brake pads are going out, how can i tell if its warped? is it very noticeable? I was thinking maybe its the brake booster check valve (hoping) since it looks like an easy fix. I pretty much always press my brakes all the way down to stop :/ However when i am going faster or at higher speeds / the cars been driving for a while, the brakes feel like their almost new.

[mattrobertsxn]

Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron

Why do you think the bottom end is rebuilt if you haven't had any of this stuff apart? You have to take the top off to get to the bottom, you know? It sort of sounds like a KA, and smokes like a car with an oily pcv. Maybe make sure you didn't way overfill your oil, don't be a wussy and go get it hot, see what happens.

Im going to hopefully do pcv valve today, and i have warmed up my car several times, I just dont want to burn through all of the oil or do any damage to my motor. It smoked a lot before the oil change too, its like its always smoked, but after the oil change it was well, a shitload more smoke and tinted more blue. I bought a compression tester kit a couple days ago and should be shipped to my house today, and also bought tools ill need for valve stem seal replacement if it comes to that. Im probably going to oreillys today and getting a pcv valve if they have one, but we'll see.

I appreciate the help man. I'd probably be f*cked over right now confused as hell if you werent helping me with this. Lmao

[mechanicalmoron]

I don't think you are doing the pcv...

It's a series of hoses on the bottom of the intake manifold, and you cannot reach them, I'd bet. It's the kind of part you learn about/understand when you have the motor out of the car and generally apart. You can probably take out some accessories and get at the breather box, but not all the problem parts that need to be reamed out and whatnot. But it won't smoke like THAT unless you way overfilled it.... which you may have. How much is in it?

[mattrobertsxn]

Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron

I don't think you are doing the pcv...



It's a series of hoses on the bottom of the intake manifold, and you cannot reach them, I'd bet. It's the kind of part you learn about/understand when you have the motor out of the car and generally apart. You can probably take out some accessories and get at the breather box, but not all the problem parts that need to be reamed out and whatnot. But it won't smoke like THAT unless you way overfilled it.... which you may have. How much is in it?

i didnt over fill it. I drained it and put in 4 quarts. I watched a video and the pcv valve was to the left of the valve cover. Was his a different setup than stock ka’s? Ill have to go check when i get home...


edit: im an idiot that was an sr I just couldnt tell from the angle i was watching it at. Im doing a compression test tommorow, and will just glance at the pcv setup under the intake manifold to even see if I want to take it on. I just got an aem cold air intake so ill be taking out the stock one anyway. Well see


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[Kingtal0n]

you say its rebuild, when was that?

Was it running fine then suddenly do this?

Did you get the engine rebuilt and its never run right?

Give us the info about the rebuild, where, howlong it took, how you got it, when you installed it, how long it ran normal, etc....

Chances are it was just assembled poorly. This happens around 80-90% of the time in my@^#%$!&*ing opinion

[Kingtal0n]

with the assumption you dont know when it was rebuilt and bought it this way:

1. compression test
2. Leakdown test
3. boost leak test

4. Visual indication of oil quality (get us PICTURES in PURE SUNLIGHT with a very clean oil pan that you are 100% sure is clean first)

With smoke like that, you should be finding some kind of leak or pressure issue somewhere. Get these results as exact as possible (135.5PSI compression for example, try to use a decimal place and repeat the tests multiple times, also try to use at least two different compression testers)
with noise like that, it takes some space, between some parts. It isn't hard to imagine how loud two piece of metal can be clacking against each other. Whether it is the pistons/valves doesn't matter; you have some space between some parts that needs to be fixed, even if this is due to poor oil flow or an unexpected coincidence. There is a chance something in the valvetrain needs to be measured/changed properly, or the block needs to be replaced due to poor machining, or something like that unfortunately.

[mattrobertsxn]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

you say its rebuild, when was that?

Was it running fine then suddenly do this?

Did you get the engine rebuilt and its never run right?

Give us the info about the rebuild, where, howlong it took, how you got it, when you installed it, how long it ran normal, etc....

Chances are it was just assembled poorly. This happens around 80-90% of the time in my@^#%$!&*ing opinion

Well, the smoke hasnt been much of a problem lately, or atleast producing as much smoke. The engine was rebuilt by the previous owner himself with a few buddies, so there is a high chance they didnt reassemble it properly. However, im starting to think its just valve tick and thats pretty normal right? Or do i absolutely need to pull the valve cover and check it out? I dont know how hard valve lash is to adjust, but id like to atleast check at some point.


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[tuzzio]

I briefly read your entire thread, so excuse me if I cover anything that was said.

Anyways, I had a similar issue this summer with my KA. My car would randomly puff smoke once and a while (its a turbo car, lets be honest, its rather normal) But as time went on...it got more frequent. Then doing oil changes my oil was always really, really burnt. So I started hunting. Once day driving I noticed my oil pressure gauge did some weird shit and noticed the car was starting to burn a ton of oil...and constantly smoke.

Anyways, the machine shop called me back yesterday. My cylinders are barrel shaped. .002" out of round at the top and bottom, and .006" in the middle.

Also, my exhaust valve guides are garbage as well and need to be replaced. Its hard to pinpoint what was causing my oil consumption MORE, but the both are getting fixed as we speak. This, unfortunately is what happens when you take a 20+ year old engine, and build it without machine work. Is it the end of the world? No. Is it going to be expensive? Yes.

May one or both be your issue? Absolutely. For what its worth my build has 0 emissions stuff, and my PCV is hooked to a vented catch can. When the car was warm you could just see smoke coming out of the catch can. Might be time to tear that KA down.

[mattrobertsxn]

Originally Posted by tuzzio

I briefly read your entire thread, so excuse me if I cover anything that was said.

Anyways, I had a similar issue this summer with my KA. My car would randomly puff smoke once and a while (its a turbo car, lets be honest, its rather normal) But as time went on...it got more frequent. Then doing oil changes my oil was always really, really burnt. So I started hunting. Once day driving I noticed my oil pressure gauge did some weird shit and noticed the car was starting to burn a ton of oil...and constantly smoke.

Anyways, the machine shop called me back yesterday. My cylinders are barrel shaped. .002" out of round at the top and bottom, and .006" in the middle.

Also, my exhaust valve guides are garbage as well and need to be replaced. Its hard to pinpoint what was causing my oil consumption MORE, but the both are getting fixed as we speak. This, unfortunately is what happens when you take a 20+ year old engine, and build it without machine work. Is it the end of the world? No. Is it going to be expensive? Yes.

May one or both be your issue? Absolutely. For what its worth my build has 0 emissions stuff, and my PCV is hooked to a vented catch can. When the car was warm you could just see smoke coming out of the catch can. Might be time to tear that KA down.

Aghh this is so much stress. I think i am going to pull the valve cover and hope its just valve lash. Ill compression test is when i get home, send you guys the numbers i get, then order a valve cover gasket and spark plug gasket too. I have the tools (i think) to adjust the valve lash and measure it to determine if i even have it in the first place. We will see. If it isnt a fix i can do from the top end while the motors in the car, i may just have to sell it before my parents rip me a new one since i convinced them to let me buy it. Keep me in your prayers guys i dont want to leave the car scene lmao.


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[tuzzio]

If you dont hate yourself, you will soon enough.

[mattrobertsxn]

Originally Posted by tuzzio

If you dont hate yourself, you will soon enough.

Why so?


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[Kingtal0n]

There are hundreds of machine shops in America that cannot properly build these engines, even with all their experience and fancy tools. I would part that engine before you permanently ruin the internals (which I Hope are actually in the engine what they claim is in there) and put a stock engine into the car so you can drive it. Give up on built 4-cylinder engines until you can afford to have multiples built as spares. It is possible to get lucky on one build but you might have to go through three or four of them first.

If power is the goal/reason then can still use a stock engine with good reliability.
For 300~ horsepower use an sr20det
for 400-600 horsepower use a 2jz or LS engine

[mattrobertsxn]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

There are hundreds of machine shops in America that cannot properly build these engines, even with all their experience and fancy tools. I would part that engine before you permanently ruin the internals (which I Hope are actually in the engine what they claim is in there) and put a stock engine into the car so you can drive it. Give up on built 4-cylinder engines until you can afford to have multiples built as spares. It is possible to get lucky on one build but you might have to go through three or four of them first.

If power is the goal/reason then can still use a stock engine with good reliability.
For 300~ horsepower use an sr20det
for 400-600 horsepower use a 2jz or LS engine

Where can i even get a decently priced sr? How much do the swaps usually range from price wise? I would love to swap an SR. Can i get the cp pistons remachined and sell them or how does that all work?


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[mechanicalmoron]

Originally Posted by mattrobertsxn

Aghh this is so much stress. I think i am going to pull the valve cover and hope its just valve lash. Ill compression test is when i get home, send you guys the numbers i get, then order a valve cover gasket and spark plug gasket too. I have the tools (i think) to adjust the valve lash and measure it to determine if i even have it in the first place. We will see. If it isnt a fix i can do from the top end while the motors in the car, i may just have to sell it before my parents rip me a new one since i convinced them to let me buy it. Keep me in your prayers guys i dont want to leave the car scene lmao.


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It's valve noise and timing chain noise. Make sure shims are all in place and nothing is broken, no bits of metal or chips, galled surfaces, cam lobes are good, etc, but it's probably fine.

Don't worry now, but your cylinders are out of round and all that... but it's probably largely smoking because cylinder 2/3 valve stem seals pissing oil into your exhaust because it's a nissan, and because of the PCV.

No, the valve cover breather is the PCV intake, actually. PCV systems suck metered air out of the intake, use it to flush blowby gas out of the crankcase, through a separation chamber, and use manifold vacuum to suck it all into the engine and burn it. In the KA, after the separation chamber the gas is routed individually into intake runners in an elaborate miniature manifld/hose system, which gets all crusty. Then it can't flow and crankcase pressure builds, which causes oil leaks. Also, crusted-up separators don't separate, they wick oil through, which smokes.

It's a motor-out job.

[mechanicalmoron]

Originally Posted by mattrobertsxn

Where can i even get a decently priced sr? How much do the swaps usually range from price wise? I would love to swap an SR. Can i get the cp pistons remachined and sell them or how does that all work?


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No.

If you're going to swap anything ever, what you need to do is go work on your car and fix it.

It's going to take a substantial investment in tools and equipment - if you're not willing to get the stuff you need, you simply can't do it, never will be able to, and will have to take it to a shop. Working on your car costs a lot.

[Kingtal0n]

Many can do an sr swap in a single day.
You need engine hoist, basic tools, wiring diagrams,
to be fully prepared there are many parts to buy.


hard part is finding an engine. They are twenty years old now so I just don't see them anymore. If you could find a perfect running high mileage sr and do a complete OEM rebuild on it that would be the best option- but it still requires knowledge not recommended for beginners.

Its almost like at this point, because everything is so old, and the technical skill required to maintain or rebuild one of these old engines, only people who know them very well can get by using them in daily drivers. So you would need to become an expert overnight.

It can be done. Start memorizing the Factory Service manual for the Nissan Silvia S14. When you can recite the torque specs and procedures for all engine work, then start looking for an engine to work on. Keep in mind everything needs to be surgically clean so you will want to prepare a clean room of sorts first, with air filters. This can be done cheaply with tarps, fans, filters and isn't as bad as it sounds. The engine needs to be "re-done" in 48 hours for best results. That means having all the necessary tools and parts handy before you begin dissembling it, and being able to fully clean and re-assemble all the same day or within the next day.

I could go on but you would need to decide if this is the life you want to lead, because this is kind of a life style.