U.S. Gun Control discussion

[godsmack]

Piers Morgan needs to stfu and gtfo of our country. He's not even a citizen and decides to have debates on our laws and rights. I'd love to go on his show and punch him square in the testicles.

[K_style]

Originally Posted by 7RIFT0

This isn't much of a debate when we all agree but yes the framers of the constitution would not be happy with where we are today. Separation of power and checks and balances were written for a reason!

I wish some Liberal should put his/her input here so we could actually debate..

this isn't fun.

[Dori240sx]

Bawhahaha thats because theres nothing to debate! This is America. You cant remove the 2nd amendment. It shall not be infringed. If you Anti-gun your anti-constitution. Which makes you a foreign. Go fuck yourself. Js

[HyperTek]

Heard 2 gun shots last night at separate times. Thought nothing of it, looked outside after the 2nd shot and saw some shadow walk by outside our fence. I figured if nothing goes down, then I won't worry about it.
This morning I learn that someone shot my neighbor's car , bullet hole in the trunk. Broke the rear windshield, went through the rear and driver's seat. Not cool at all.

[Corbic]

Car Accidents per Year: 6,500,000
Gun accidents per year 14,000

Car Fatalities in 2010: 32,885
Guns use in Homicide in 2010: 11,078
Guns used in Suicide in 2010: 19,200*
Guns fatal accidents in 2010: 1,000


Car Injuries in 2010: 2,240,000
Gun Injuries in 2010: 74,000

Alcohol related Car Fatalities: 10,228

Pedestrians killed by cars in 2010: 4,280

Pedestrians injured by cars in 2010: 70,000



Regardless you insure a car because they cost $30,000 and because you will likely be causing an accident. Guns cost $500-$2,000 and in your day to day life you are unlikely to damage your own gun or someone else's.


Most Gun deaths are suicide. The meda is now trying to wrap that number into the "gun violence" number and inflate it. Gun Violence has been on a dramatic downswing since the the 1960s and 1980's. Ironically, it's only since Obama has taken office that voilent crime and murder has been on the rise again.

Also, don't let Europe fool you, their homicide rates have been on the rise for the 20 years, it just had a significantly lower starting point. Homicide in America is now a gun issue, its a cultural issue. You have people wanting to kill other people - even without a gun, they will still find a way. The Thuggees of India killed thousands and thousands by simply strangling them with a towel.




* As for Suicide rates - who cares. These are people choosing to take their own livs. Would you rather they plow their car into oncoming traffic? Jump off a building? Take a baby for hostage and force the police to shoot them? If anything this just further highlights the need for mental health help in America. We're a sick country and trying to blame black guns is just fucking stupid. It's the symptom, not the cause.

[Corbic]

Even Chicago WAS on a downward trend... not anymore in the last 3 years.







You notice how all these charts start to rapidly rise in the late 70's but then crash in the 90's?

Crack Cocaine Bitches. It's a combination of the drug wars, war on drugs and also, others have theorized Abortion. By the mid 90's is when the majority of unwanted babies after the legalization of Abortion happened would have bee in there 20's... and causing crime.

[Dori240sx]

Does anyone know when the executive orders are supposed to be voted on? Im not hearing any deadlines for when there supposed to make a decision...

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by Dori240sx

Bawhahaha thats because theres nothing to debate! This is America. You cant remove the 2nd amendment. It shall not be infringed. If you Anti-gun your anti-constitution. Which makes you a foreign. Go fuck yourself. Js

Hmm, a "foreign?" that is great. I am surprised your illiterate ass has even read the constitution... have you gotten past the 2nd amendment yet though? Just wondering.

No amendment is absolute turds. (Read that DC v. Heller case and even Scalia is for certain types of gun control) But we can all agree/disagree on how far is to far and what types of control are actually effective.

This is America, where everyone has the right to think for themselves and being anti gun is just as American as being pro gun!

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by Dori240sx

Does anyone know when the executive orders are supposed to be voted on? Im not hearing any deadlines for when there supposed to make a decision...

What? Executive orders are orders... they are signed and that is it.

By the way, can anyone tell me which one is the scary one that has all the RWNJs in all a tiff? most of these seem... eh...

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make itwidely available to law enforcement.

11. Nominate an ATF director.

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effectiveuse of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to developinnovative technologies.

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.

22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

Here is a quote from forbes describing the executive orders

It does not appear that any of the executive orders would have any impact on the guns people currently own-or would like to purchase- and that all proposals regarding limiting the availability of assault weapons or large ammunition magazines will be proposed for Congressional action. As such, any potential effort to create a constitutional crisis—or the leveling of charges that the White House has overstepped its executive authority—would hold no validity.

so really, what is the big deal? why is there so much bitching about nothing? Oh, black guy.

[slideslidegnarslide]

It's not about the guns. It is about the federal government abusing its power and taking our rights away. It's funny how people are so worked up over this and no one has anything to say about our constitutional right being abused by the thousands of surveillance drones flying over us. If you don't believe me look up one night. They can not fly more than 400 feet and can see through houses and cars.

I am a gun owner but won't be affect by this because I carry a small 9mm with a small clip. It's about our rights. Once they take this away all our other rights will be at risk. Did you know that now if you protest. A drone flys over the protest and takes face recognition and then you are added to a list of terrorist? Soon it will not only be the second amendment but our freedom of speech protest everything is at risk. This is a monumental time. If the government gets away with this we are going to loose everything. I actually wish I had the opportunity to move out of the United States. But I don't. So when this democracy falls and a state of Marshall law is enforced around the country all I'm going to say is I told you so.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by slideslidegnarslide

It's not about the guns. It is about the federal government abusing its power and taking our rights away. It's funny how people are so worked up over this and no one has anything to say about our constitutional right being abused by the thousands of surveillance drones flying over us. If you don't believe me look up one night. They can not fly more than 400 feet and can see through houses and cars.

What rights have you lost? I doubt you could name 1 right you have "lost." Please... there is no right to none surveillance (hence why police can follow you all day long just waiting for you to break a law - then pull you over). It becomes unconstitutional when they cross certain thresholds to obtain evidence (aka using a thermal camera to see inside the house) to use against you. Understandably, we live in an age of exponentially technological advances which makes many of lines that were traditionally easy to draw extremely grey and vague.

Originally Posted by slideslidegnarslide

I am a gun owner but won't be affect by this because I carry a small 9mm with a small clip. It's about our rights. Once they take this away all our other rights will be at risk. Did you know that now if you protest. A drone flys over the protest and takes face recognition and then you are added to a list of terrorist? Soon it will not only be the second amendment but our freedom of speech protest everything is at risk. This is a monumental time. If the government gets away with this we are going to loose everything. I actually wish I had the opportunity to move out of the United States. But I don't. So when this democracy falls and a state of Marshall law is enforced around the country all I'm going to say is I told you so.

What? what are they taking away? If you are worried about protesting drones... then why the hell would you ever protest outside a government building... hey dipwads if you protest outside a federal government building, your shit is getting checked out! That has been happening since, well, the beginning of time? This is not a "monumental" time, your just a "monumental" nut case who thinks the black guys are coming to get you. Look at some real shit, like Syria, that is "monumental," that is a collapse of society, that is real fucking crazy government.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by ineedone

What rights have you lost? I doubt you could name 1 right you have "lost." Please... there is no right to none surveillance (hence why police can follow you all day long just waiting for you to break a law - then pull you over). It becomes unconstitutional when they cross certain thresholds to obtain evidence (aka using a thermal camera to see inside the house) to use against you. Understandably, we live in an age of exponentially technological advances which makes many of lines that were traditionally easy to draw extremely grey and vague.




What? what are they taking away? If you are worried about protesting drones... then why the hell would you ever protest outside a government building... hey dipwads if you protest outside a federal government building, your shit is getting checked out! That has been happening since, well, the beginning of time? This is not a "monumental" time, your just a "monumental" nut case who thinks the black guys are coming to get you. Look at some real shit, like Syria, that is "monumental," that is a collapse of society, that is real fucking crazy government.

What's your overall point?

[S14DB]

[Corbic]

At that point why not just say what they really want.


"Ban all Firearms"

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

What's your overall point?

That the RWNJ who are crying about their "rights" being taken away are stupid.

Originally Posted by S14DB

Yes, Feinstein is a bit of a lefty loon. However, her bill wont pass. Even if it did it is unconstitutional so... cool beans?

Originally Posted by Corbic

At that point why not just say what they really want.


"Ban all Firearms"

Honestly, what do you think the realistic chances of that are?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ineedone

Honestly, what do you think the realistic chances of that are?

With this administration - very high.

[onehundredoctane]

Originally Posted by HyperTek

Bwahahahaha, fuck that shit. IF something like this ever became reality there would be a revolt.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by Corbic

With this administration - very high.

Hmmm... riiiiight. What has this administration done? I have seen gun rights (to a certain extent) expanded. I see that this administration doing much much much less on guns then the Reagan administration.

In 1986, [Reagan] signed into law the Firearm Owners Protection Act, which “banned ownership of any fully automatic rifles that were not already registered on the day the law was signed.” He later backed the Brady bill, expressing support for “a seven-day waiting period before a purchaser could take possession of a handgun, an even more stringent restriction than the five day cooling-off period that was included in the final legislation, and less stringent than the 15-day cooling-off period he signed into law as governor of California.”
Read more at Andrea Mitchell: Reagan Supported Gun Laws; Gun Dude: Who, That Senile Old Man?

Sooo... what is this gun grabbing administration really waiting for? Why not do it first thing and especially during the lame duck? Pretty ballsy move to wait till a 2nd term seeing as the election was suppose to be pretty close and all. Just saying... looks like you have really nothing to bitch about.

Originally Posted by onehundredoctane

Bwahahahaha, fuck that shit. IF something like this ever became reality there would be a revolt.

What is the issue with those things? I do not see why there would be a revolt? filling out some forms to much for you idiots?

I read that something like 90% of all illegal firearms come from less than 1% of arms dealers. If only the ATF (who is suppose to be dealing with these problems) were allowed to the job that they are suppose to be doing I think a lot of these gun issues would not be around.

But hey, screw that, kill em all.

[bc.]

Originally Posted by ineedone

What is the issue with those things? I do not see why there would be a revolt? filling out some forms to much for you idiots?

Why should I fill out a form? Am I a watch list or something? Why do they need to know the kind of gun I have? What will any of these gun bans/laws do to lower violence?

The problem I see is that none of it makes sense to help do what they 'say' they want to do. It does make sense, however, as a step in confiscation much further down the road.

[usdm180sx]

Once they take away our right to bear arms then they can declare martial law and establish a dictatorship. Just like what hitler did

[K_style]

Originally Posted by Dori240sx

Bawhahaha thats because theres nothing to debate! This is America. You cant remove the 2nd amendment. It shall not be infringed. If you Anti-gun your anti-constitution. Which makes you a foreign. Go fuck yourself. Js

Tell that to that Piers Morgan Fuck face..

[Mofuhcka]

The only thing that pisses me off is that this whole gun control thing exploded because of Sandy Hook and Aurora and those types of mass murders that were recently committed. BUT where were all these people that want to get rid of all firearms at when Chicago, now known as Chiraq, exploded into gun violence? Not once have I heard anyone say ANYTHING about banning guns because young kids and young adults are being killed EVERYDAY in Chicago, in Detroit, hell even 20 min north of me in Stockton California. I have yet to hear anyone stick up for them. Just for the people trying to watch a movie or the kids that were just chillin at school.

The other thing that pisses me off, is how everyone is quick to get mad and blame every LEGAL, LAW ABIDING gun owner because of something a crazy, criminally minded person did with an illegally obtained weapon. Us gun owners who own them for protection, who got them legally, who exercise our 2nd Amendment right to own a gun, ALWAYS take the heat for something a criminal does illegally. Go fucking crack down on the illegal gun trade and gang violence, the people that are actually hurting this nation instead of us gun owners that have most likely not even have had to pull the gun out for any reason.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by usdm180sx

Once they take away our right to bear arms then they can declare martial law and establish a dictatorship. Just like what hitler did

I think you may want to take another look at history buddy. Hitler took the guns away from Jews, not from Germans. But hey... facts are whatever.

[usdm180sx]

Originally Posted by ineedone

I think you may want to take another look at history buddy. Hitler took the guns away from Jews, not from Germans. But hey... facts are whatever.

I stand corrected on that part.

[Mofuhcka]

Originally Posted by ineedone

I think you may want to take another look at history buddy. Hitler took the guns away from Jews, not from Germans. But hey... facts are whatever.

Either way, who was controlled and then nearly washed off the face of the earth? The Jews without guns

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by Mofuhcka

Either way, who was controlled and then nearly washed off the face of the earth? The Jews without guns

Jews with guns vs. the Nazi military? hmm... Jews still lose that one too. The guns would have had little to no effect on the holocaust. Remember it took 3 countries and a world war to stop the Nazis (not to mention they over ran the Russians who had guns, the polish who had guns, the french who had guns etc, etc, etc). But hey, the small minority of Jews would have stopped them with guns right? I swear the idiocy of these arguments is staggering.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by bc.

Why should I fill out a form? Am I a watch list or something? Why do they need to know the kind of gun I have? What will any of these gun bans/laws do to lower violence?

The problem I see is that none of it makes sense to help do what they 'say' they want to do. It does make sense, however, as a step in confiscation much further down the road.

Oh no a government list!!!! Did you vote??? because you are now on a list! OH NOOOOOOOOO

It makes sense because responsible gun owners are what we want in this country. When only 1% of arms dealers are supplying 90% of the illegal weapons - that seems to be a fairly simple way to figure out and stop that 1% right? a few pieces of paper and an extra few days for your boomstick is not going to lead to a government army taking away all your guns and ammo.

PS. If you are truly afraid of them taking your weapons... lets say that by some strange act of god they pass a bill saying NO MORE FIREARMS!!! how would that work logistically? The military is only 1% of the population and even they are split politically - so can not think the military would buy into that. Is it going to be the lefty loons who couldn't figure out how to fire a gun even if you taught them?

I am just wondering who you are actually worried about here... I got a tinfoil hat for you by the way!

[bc.]

Originally Posted by ineedone

I think you may want to take another look at history buddy. Hitler took the guns away from Jews, not from Germans. But hey... facts are whatever.

I think you may want to take another look at history buddy and see what happened to the Jews

[Mofuhcka]

Originally Posted by ineedone

Jews with guns vs. the Nazi military? hmm... Jews still lose that one too. The guns would have had little to no effect on the holocaust. Remember it took 3 countries and a world war to stop the Nazis (not to mention they over ran the Russians who had guns, the polish who had guns, the french who had guns etc, etc, etc). But hey, the small minority of Jews would have stopped them with guns right? I swear the idiocy of these arguments is staggering.

Did I say that they would have been able to take out the whole Nazi military? No I didnt. If they had guns, they wouldnt have been gathered up into concentration camps and killed. They wouldve had some firepower to fight back at least for a little bit while other countries took notice and came to help. I can almost guarantee that if the Jews had guns there wouldve been no Holocaust and the death toll wouldve been much smaller.

Now how about the Colonies vs the British government?? Who won that battle?

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by bc.

I think you may want to take another look at history buddy and see what happened to the Jews

You really could not look 3 more post down?

Originally Posted by Mofuhcka

Did I say that they would have been able to take out the whole Nazi military? No I didnt. If they had guns, they wouldnt have been gathered up into concentration camps and killed. They wouldve had some firepower to fight back at least for a little bit while other countries took notice and came to help. I can almost guarantee that if the Jews had guns there wouldve been no Holocaust and the death toll wouldve been much smaller.

Now how about the Colonies vs the British government?? Who won that battle?

Wow... yeah, no. See the fact is that the Nazi party was peacefully voted into power. They also came against little to no resistance in perpetrating the holocaust. If the Jews had guns, they would have been shot dead on the spot instead of forced into labor camps. The world knew what was happening the entire time and allowed it to happen... so whether the Jews had guns or not would not have matter at all.

Again, the Nazi army overtook entire COUNTRIES that had ARMIES and it took THREE COUNTRIES with LARGER ARMIES and NUCLEAR WEAPONS to stop them. What would a minority of citizens been able to do against that same Nazi army who was hell bent on exterminating them? Yeah... nothing. Every Jew could have been armed to the teeth and it would not have made the slightest bit of a difference. What made the difference was when the rest of the world got involved.

Are you seriously comparing colonial times with WWII? Are you that simple?