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Old 01-07-2008, 06:46 PM   #31
KA-T_240
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^
WOW, as soon as i read that i was like OMG, I am retarted!

Thanks for the compliments. I will probably take pics of the finished harness bar tomorrow.


I would like to do my own cage. But don't think my fab skills are up to the task. I can weld good, just need to practice for a while again. I guess, if I take my time I could probably do it. I have the design I would like to use in my head, and its differant then any of the premade cages.
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:53 PM   #32
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Check out Bend tech. They make a software program that will help you design cages, chassis, anything tube related.

The basic version is cheap, and it will tell you where to bend, where to cut, what angle to cut, how much your project will weigh, and you can look at it on the computer in 3d.

I use the pro addition and is worth every penny.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:05 PM   #33
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Thanks, yes it was all mig welded, not the best penitration but its holding up. The V pattern is to add the the strength and add some vertical support ontop of the lateral support a normal strut bar gives you.

Next is to think up a Front stb that ties into the firewall. any input on how to do this? a single mounting point in the center or dual, one on each side?

And this bend tech, you can purchase it off their website in guessing? sounds like it may be very useful.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:25 PM   #34
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yes off their website.


Ok. I promised action shots yesterday, and some actual fabrication shots.
Well. Here ya go.

My day at work today.

8:00am. Get to work. Notice that the new flanges for the 2-1/4" headers I am going to be building have come in.

Stainless 304 nice and thick.



Then i notice that they were square/oval instead of circular. Great!



This means that i will have to modify each tube to fit inside the flange.
This involved alot of hitting, bending, and a tourch.



Well after going that for awhile I was actually ready to start mocking up the headers.



Yup.



yup.



Then Paul decided to interupt me to weld an a/n fitting onto a catch can.



Tig welded. polarity= ac, argon shielding gas, 140 amps of power, aluminum filler rod.



Then it was back to the headers.



Heres the first completed runner.



Heres the 2nd runner on the welding table.
Tig welded, polarity= DC-, 2% tungsten electrode, 115 amps of power, argon shielding gas, 308 filler rod.


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Old 01-07-2008, 07:40 PM   #35
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2nd runner in place. Notice the width of the weld bead, is about the thickness of a pencil tip.



Here is more pics of the runner being mocked up.



Tacked into place.



3rd runner in place.



Well i decided to start mocking up the other side since I am waiting on a starter and should have that in place while building the 4th runner.

Well the supercharger sits on the other side. So i grabbed that heavy thing and put it on. This is to make sure the header does not get in the way after its finished. Thats what mock up is for.



big blower



Its heavy.


Its big.



Then i realize that our expensive valve covers dont fit with the blower in place. Great! So i mark where it needs to be clearanced.







And chop it out using my air saw.



Then i made a radius piece to put in place.



And a side plate.



And tig welded them in.
ac, pure tungsten, argon, aluminum rod, 145 amps.



then ground it smooth for clearance.



It fits. Yay!





But it sits too far back :-( the blower bracket is pushing on the flange of the valve cover. So I throw that on the mill and shave it down.



1/16" should work.



Sweet !



It works.


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Old 01-07-2008, 07:42 PM   #36
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wow, great skills keep the pics coming
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:54 PM   #37
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Well about that time I noticed that the tranny crossmember was hanging too low. So i decided to make a new one to clear the exhaust we will be building.





Chop off the old ends and rotate them to the correct angle.



Fabbed up a new bracket.
All tig welded.



Made some slots on the mill.


Made a box plate to eliminate any flex since this thing will have over 1000 whp.



Then made some frame gussets for the tranny mount.



Tig welded them all in.



Then made some upper arms out of 1/2 stainless tubing. Added some roll cage brackets, and mounts for the tranny tunnel.



yup.





Then from inside the car, I cut out the dynamat from the tranny tunnel, and drilled a hole.



Then I tig welded a nut to a washer and put it in place.



Tack welded it in with the tig.



Then put the dynamat back over for a seamless finish.



Well thats it for today.

Hope you enjoyed this. I will try to post up my fun days at work if you guys would like to see.
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:34 PM   #38
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i cant weld yet....i was advised by my shop foreman to buy a 400 mig welder from home depot, and to start with gas first....

any suggestions?
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Old 01-07-2008, 09:47 PM   #39
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mig is in general the most used type of welding for diy welders. If you are going to learn mig then only do it with shielding gas. Flux core (gasless) is retarded, and will not leave a nice weld and will not be structural.

You can find a decent miller 110v mig at home depot or other welding stores. The nice thing about a 110v is that it is portable, can plug in anywhere, and is stable and easy to weld on really thin metal.

5 years ago I bought a miller 110v mig welder with the gas attachment for $400 from home depot. It is still working strong and has been used heavily.
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Old 01-07-2008, 09:47 PM   #40
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Luke,

i used to have a fixture for my little shop press to put runners into so i could square/rectangle hem. If i can find it ill take a picture of it maybe you can check it out and make somthing similar to square those up, you shouldnt have to use a torch and i try to avoid the heat as much as i can..
Also do you have and "10 to 1's" from MAC?
These, they work great for making gougeless bends on the edges of the tubes.

I also on 1-3/4 and 2" primarys that use Square ports i will build small sections of straights that weld to the flange then the bend. I machine a solid bar stock of aluminum to fit snuggly inside a straight section of tube then bend the edges into the square pound out the alum mandrel and it keeps your tube perfectly round to weld the bend on to it.

I have built dozens of Domestic turbo headers, so this stuff is natural to me, but i have a hard time explaining how i do stuff or why. My biggest Suggestion to anyone getting started, the best way to get the best results is to get organized, get your work area cleaned up and all the tools you need in order, the more organized you are the faster and happier you can work. the better you clean your materials the better the end result. Right now my Fab area is a complete disaster area and i cant get any work done fast, im taking a half day tomorrow to clean up the shop and mainly my fab area and organize all my materials and tools. ill get some pictures of my setup, i dont have alot of baller tools, i stifle my self because of it, but i also like to build my own tools as i need them.

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Old 01-07-2008, 09:53 PM   #41
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Jon. great post.

any pics would be great. I dont have any tools for that since i usually use round flanges. Also. Great advice on keeping everything organized, and material clean...
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Old 01-07-2008, 09:55 PM   #42
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rps13....just be carefull with cheap welders from places like home depot, because even though they look the same on the outside, sometimes the internals are compromised. for example you could have a plastic drive wheel or you could have a very low duty cycle so your welder can only work 2 out of 10 minutes to weld anything of a decent thickness.

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Old 01-07-2008, 10:01 PM   #43
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Matt. Good suggestion.

Im not sure about your local home depots but around here they only carry Miller. If you purchase a Miller you will be ok.

Stay away from the cheap off brands. Even the cheaper hobart welders are garbage.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:22 PM   #44
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I have question about a certain tool that metal fabricators use to cut through sheet metal. Its almost like a pair of metal shears stuffed inside this one handheld device but instead its offered in either Air power-Electric powered.

I have a fiberglass drop in vent that I want to rivit on then mold onto an extra hood that i have laying around but I have no idea what the correct name of that tool is,nor where to look for it. If anybody has any other suggestions on what I can use to cut through the top part of a hood to do this? I was thinking of cutting it out with an angle grinder but I need peoples insight on whats best to use in order to do this.
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Old 01-08-2008, 12:26 AM   #45
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well what i think you are speaking of is an air shear. That will work fine. A careful hand with a die grinder or air saw will work as well. Maybe even a good dremel if you are doing this at home and dont have the other options.

is this what you were referring too?

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Old 01-08-2008, 10:04 AM   #46
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Do not, I repeat Do Not buy these from harbor freight.... they suck...
I picked up a cheap electric set of shears from there last night for a quick project and for 40$ they cut everything i needed really well..
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:22 PM   #47
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god you guys make me wish I could do that shit...
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Old 01-08-2008, 02:42 PM   #48
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Ok, here are some shitty pics of my harness bar with all the stuff finished. As I look at this, I see some things i would change(move the bar further back. less make the pieces that the harness bolt onto more level. Paint it FLAT black, it glares in my mirror. lol. But, it was our first time doing this. Can always improve on later projects.

First post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KA-T_240 View Post
This is the only parts i have really made on my own other then bracket for holding the IC and a cart for parts:

S13 Hatch Harness Bar Version 1. Cost me $25-$35 to make using Steel from various places.





I have since changed it, and added pieces that go off the cross bar that for where the harnesses bolt to. And Things off the back that have 1/4 steel bars that go down and bolt to where the rear seat belts bolted to. I will take new pics later.

I also made some custom reinforcement for my clearanced S13 bumper stupport using 1 1/2 inch angle iron.
Pics:
of how it is finished




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Old 01-08-2008, 02:57 PM   #49
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I've never understood what the little skinnier bar that forms a "hole" between the bigger bar versus the little bar did, like shown in this pic that I quoted from KA-T_240 here:




BTW, nice harness bar man
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:12 PM   #50
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I use the "loop" so that the extra part of my harnesses don't go sliding around. From what I understand, they used to use a harness that wrapped around the bar to hold in place. But Not sure.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:16 PM   #51
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you don't rely on that as your only seatbelt do you? that looks extremely unsafe. In an accident that bar can and will swing at your head.

I would suggest taking out the interior panels then making that bar mount in at least one more place on the chassis, ad a 1.8th square to the sheet metal along with a anchor point.

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Old 01-08-2008, 03:34 PM   #52
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Quote:
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you don't rely on that as your only seatbelt do you? that looks extremely unsafe. In an accident that bar can and will swing at your head.

I would suggest taking out the interior panels then making that bar mount in at least one more place on the chassis, ad a 1.8th square to the sheet metal along with a anchor point.

Jon
It has a 2nd mount location on a bracket it looks like.
in a lower pic.
A for effort.

Joe I may sell my welder...I need a TIG badly.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:43 PM   #53
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It is designed like any other harness bar does. Like the Sparco and Cusco ones. All the bolts are in the spots used for the seatbelts from the factory. If the design is dangerous why would those companies make them like that?

I know its not the same as mounting them to a cage which can't move(at least it shouldn't). I was concerned about the bar moving. Thats why I added the bars that go down. Also, with the angle of the body/ B pillars and how the plates that go back to the bar, it is impossible for it to go up and get to my head, it also would hit the ceiling first.

I plan on getting a cage in the future. It just is not a option at the moment. out of curiousity, how much would those of you that do cages charge for a
6-point?
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:15 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillyvia13 View Post
It has a 2nd mount location on a bracket it looks like.
in a lower pic.
A for effort.

Joe I may sell my welder...I need a TIG badly.

LMK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:23 PM   #55
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Harness bar looks good. From what I see it has 4 mounting points.

gj
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:46 PM   #56
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Harness bar looks good. From what I see it has 4 mounting points.

gj
You sir are correct!
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:53 PM   #57
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What I don't get it why did you put the small rod bracket on the bar, but then weld on mounts so you could bolt the harness to the bar? Why not wrap the harness around the bar?

And another note, flat stock is horrible under compression. It doesn't look like it will be an issue because in a front impact it would probably be loaded in tension, but just for future reference. And especially a piece that long, it would buckle real quick.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:38 PM   #58
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I am not aware of any racing body that allows wrap around style mounting any more.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:58 PM   #59
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I'm not aware than any santioning body doesn't allow wrap around mounting any more. Do you have anything to prove that? I just checked SCCA and NASA general rules for 2008 in the Driver restraint section and they made no mention that wrap around mounting is not allowed. And why wouldn't it be? A wrap around harness is going to be stronger than a bolted in harness. Just look at the possible failure points. You have a bolt in single shear holding in each shoulder strap. And with the eye mounts the load is concentrated more on a small edge of the harness. But even ignoring that and assuming everything equal, I would trust a roll cage to hold me in place over 3/8" bolts in single shear.

But my main point, was why have the harness guides if you aren't going to use them?
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:05 AM   #60
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maybe its just the camera angles, and how i am judging the angles. i worry about the points that it can move on, it looks as the bar could move at the bolted points, allowing the bar to swing down and forward,even with the down bars it looks like they could all offer movement when forced with a lot of pressure.Thats what 1/8th strip stock? it could bow under forward load which could possibly allow the bars to gain motion. which if that happens, even a few inches, that could be enough to allow you to move to far.
Don't Take this as im trying to knock your work, i just worry about safety. when it comes to building something that is as important as restraints. i like to over build just to be on the safe side.

I think a way to make that design more solid would be to use some small DOM, or even square tubing to mount to the lap belt mount on the rocker to make it form a triangle with the Harness bar and the vertical support. I was also saying maybe make the mounting point on the bar be bolted in at 2 spots on the B pillar, possibly on a horizontal plane and using some plate steel at the bolt locations to help disperse any load it might see.

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