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Tech Talk Technical Discussion About The Nissan 240SX and Nissan Z Cars


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Old 11-21-2009, 07:26 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julz View Post
does anyone know if there is any differance between the s13 and s14 rear traction and toe arms? and s13 and s14 rear knuckles?
Trac arms are the same, toe arms are the same length but the s-14 requires thicker spacers on the rod end, and I believe that the s-13 and s-14 rear uprights (not knuckles) are actually slightly different. The entire s-14 rear suspension is rotated forward slightly compared the the s-13 rear suspension in order to reduce the retarded amount of anti-squat that the s-13 has.
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:36 PM   #62
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alright cool thanks for the info
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Old 01-29-2010, 05:33 PM   #63
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how do i lower my civic
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:52 AM   #64
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how do i lower my civic
looool wtf
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Old 02-03-2010, 02:32 PM   #65
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cut the wheels in half.
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Old 03-04-2010, 03:13 PM   #66
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like the info wat everyone saying
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:35 PM   #67
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hello everyone this is gonna be a bit of a noob question but i came into a good deal with my friend who's getting rid of his s14 with many parts on his suspension. I was planning to swap the entire brake system, 5 lug, wheels, suspension, and lsd off of his s14 on to my s13.. i was wondering what problems would i face once i start switching all of the parts over and what would be needed to be adjusted or taken from the s14 also and could be used on my s13 coupe. any help would be greatly appreciated because i am very interested in picking all these parts up and putting them back on my car
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:01 PM   #68
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this might be a dumb question but i rather ask this question in this thread rather than starting a new one since its the same topic. I know its all in personal preference, but what are some good coilovers for track & street use? im thinking of going with a grip setup. I would drift too but i doubt its possible to have both setups. How are the apexi N1 ENV?
A'PEXi N1 Damper ExV Coilovers 1989-1994 Nissan 240SX (S13) - P/N: 269AN006
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:00 PM   #69
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hey musikjunkie with your s13 suspension stuff your askin about i know on your rear end as far as the rucas go they might not fit your car. most of the rucas you see for s13s go all the way around the coilover like the stock ones. and on s14s they only go half way around but if you mount them on your car theres a rubbing issue on the back. there is a few companies that sell the rucas that only go half way around like part shop max, or battle version that fit both s chasis. ask your friend whats on his car or show us what they look like so we can tell you if theyed work or not. also one more thing when you do install the rucas weather they fit or not i would recomened doing the toe rods and rucas at the same time. if you just put the rucas on and dial them in your toe is going to be affected as well. and with your coilovers i think its already been addressed in this thread but the rear coilovers on his car is going to be a lot longer than yours, but the fronts i believe are fine.
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:31 PM   #70
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and i got a friend that has the apexi coilovers your talkin about on his car and he loves em. ive drove his car a few times and they dont seem too bad to me. he does mostly track racing but now that im gettin him into drift i think its gonna become both as well like your talkin about. im personally sportin part shop maxs coils. ive had em for about 2 years now and there fuckin awsome! i do go to scca events some times but keep in mind they do get kinda pissed if u do crap like e-brakin the harpins real fast or crap like that. me personally, i think drifts way more fun if your tryin to decide what to get into.
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:54 AM   #71
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interesting. how well does the max coils handle besides drifting. would u recommend them for grip/time attack cuz u seem much more satisfied with your coils over the apexi's
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:42 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doomviillain View Post
interesting. how well does the max coils handle besides drifting. would u recommend them for grip/time attack cuz u seem much more satisfied with your coils over the apexi's
No. Spring rates and damping are entirely too stiff for time attack, unless you're running an incredibly well-prepared chassis and slicks. Just dropping the spring rate isn't going to make them more comfortable or grip better, in my opinion, because the damping is matched very well to their stiff springs. Good drift suspension, great company, but not the best for daily driving or time attack.

I'd highly suggest Stance in that price point, even with the 9k/7k springs they felt much better.
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:29 AM   #73
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just learned something new,thanks for taking away an hr of my life,great info
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:24 PM   #74
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hey fellas first time here. got a s14 completely upgraded and im tired of going to the rack tfor alignment. i read somewhere that a decent set up is -2.5 front camber and -1.1 rear with 0 toe. it seams to be on flat suburban roads but as soon as i get into the city the front is all over the place. would the problem be solved by taking the front camber close to 0. I can always do trial and error but if someone can give a directio woud be great. thanks
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:55 AM   #75
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That's a great setup, but the one thing you didn't address was caster. Lots of people like lots of caster (-7* or more), I run bigger tires and like a little less (I ran like 5.5* on my S14 last time I aligned it).

If your alignment feels good on great roads and shitty on shitty roads, guess what? It's not your alignment, it's the road. If you'd rather the car 'want' to drive straight all the time, give it a little toe in, like an 1/8".
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:41 PM   #76
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Thanks for the tip. i checked the caster angles and it looks like i got an 1/8-1/4" more caster on the driver side then the passenger. i think that might explain why the car pulls to the right when i brake at high speeds. i think im going to have to lower the caster angles a little and put them up when i get to the track...its unnoying fighting the road all day long.
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:09 AM   #77
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can some one help me with my problem I have nisson altama 97 I touched the battery cables backwards for 1 sec and the car starts and ones and the headlight are the only thing that works ele, I replaces the 75 amp fuse and still no change pleae help it is broke down away from town thaks
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:50 PM   #78
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Your suspension is probably still fine.

Sent from my rooted Incredible using tapatalk
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Old 03-12-2011, 10:49 PM   #79
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WOW my brain just got a bunch of new information i could use later on when i ever do get to do my suspension
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:37 AM   #80
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great read, thank you!
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Old 05-25-2011, 01:47 AM   #81
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Is there any chance caster could make the front wheel shake at speeds above 65?

My car got aligned and for some reason they put the caster at 4.5 and 4.6, and ever since then its had a vibration about 65. It didn't really do it before the alignment so I'm confused.

They tell me its bad tires though, because on one the rubber is showing cracks, but its just confusing that it didn't do it before the alignment.
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:25 PM   #82
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does anyone know where to get rebuild parts for kts coilovers? looks like spl doesnt sell them anymore and i havent been able to find anywhere else...searching google just brings up older forum threads
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:07 AM   #83
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Exclamation Bushing FAQ

So, I've done a lot of research, ripped apart my subframe and control arms, and since I didn't feel that this topic should go anywhere else, I figured I'd add on to the Suspension FAQ.

Q. Bushings... WTF are they?
A. Bushings are the buffers between your control arms, differential, subframe, and the chassis. They are rubber inserts that form a protective cushion between the metal, moving parts of your suspension.

Q. What do they do?
A. Their job is to absorb Noise, Vibration, and Harshness (NVH), while keeping your suspension geometry somewhat within spec while cornering or going over bumps. Being made of rubber they make the ride more bearable. Nissan of course made our cars to be "sporty", and rubber is slow to respond sometimes, which means they aren't the best for spirited or motorsports use. The problem with these bushings, is that, like anything else on a car, they wear out over time, when subjected to road-grime, heating and cooling cycles, vibration and all the other elements that our cars endure, not the least of which is the driver.

Q. So what are the alternatives?
A. Well, you can replace them. There are 3 main types of replacement:
--Rubber is the first. Now, these come in OE or Performance Flavors. These bushings are usually pressed in, which as a result means to replace them, especially with OE-hardness bushings, that you'll need a press or new arm. Performance Rubber Bushings are generally harder, like Nismo/Full Race/Megan. These provide a tighter feeling while still being very street/daily-driver friendly.
--Polyurethane is next. This is a plastic alloy (lol) that is more dense than rubber, but still has some give to it. There are more than a couple companies which make these types and the performance benefits are pretty sweet. You get to tighten up your handling to better than stock, your handling becomes more predictable and you STILL have a car you can use on the streets. The downside with these is that like rubber, they won't last forever, and ones that move, like the control arms, need periodic lubrication (depending on manufacturer/style) via Zerk-grease fittings or Dis-assembly. The big names here are Energy Suspension, Prothane, and Whiteline.
--Solid/Heim Joints are last. These are the fully adjustable units you see the racing/hellaflush guys running. These are usually spherical bearings (in the case of Control Arms), or Solid Metal Slugs (in the case of your differential or subframe). These bushings are the best for performance, because they allow very predictable handling, because they bearings will only move a certain amount, your suspension geometry remains more static as well. The bad is that all the NVH that was previously captured by the rubber, is going to get to you now much easier (a reduction in ride comfort). Heim joints also need periodic inspection to make sure the vibration isn't shaking bolts/nuts loose, they aren't binding.

Q. That was really long winded...
A. Not a question, but okay, here's the short version: Bushing replacement should be determined by your own sensibilities and what you plan to use the car for.

Rubber - Good for Daily, Not as good as others for performance
Polyurethane - Acceptable for daily, acceptable for performance, may be more maintenance involved
Heim/Solid - Great for performance, not as good for daily, Heims require vigilance/maintenance

Q. So... How do I install them?
A. I shall direct you to Project Car Magazine for a detailed How-To with our cars. And also Here. Remember to say thank you when you get there.

Q. Anything else I should know?
A. There was some interesting discussion with Poly-bushings going on here, and over here we have some Subframe Bushing Install Tips.

Now, if you have clunks coming from your suspension, when cornering or going over bumps, it means your bushings are probably shot. The reason is because the suspension is contacting itself in ways it was never designed to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperBlackS14 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KendallH View Post
Hope this is the right place to ask. I recently bought a set of brand new FA500s for my coupe, and I'm having an issue with one of them. The front passenger side is clunking on rebound(?) I believe. When going over bumps in the road/potholes/etc. When the wheel comes up in travel, compressing the coil, it's a strange bump/clunking sound. Also, on the same side I'm hearing a binding noise when turning the wheel stationary. I pulled the wheel and knuckle off to inspect it and the tophat will barely rotate at all which is causing the actual insert to turn instead of the tophat. I've tried shooting some silicon lube inside the pillowball but it's still very stiff and won't turn. This is only on the front passenger coilover, none of the others. Overall very happy with the 500s, the ride incredibly well, would just like to figure out if theres a way to correct those issues.
Have you checked your bushings recently, they might be out to lunch.
Links:
energysuspension.com | Welcome
Whiteline Performance Suspension – Activate More Grip
Prothane Suspension Parts - A Dealer of the Prothane Brand of Suspension Parts
Nissan 240sx - Suspension & Steering - Suspension Bushings - Enjuku Racing Parts, LLC

Well, that's it for me. Let me know if I missed or need to add anything to this.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:25 AM   #84
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So your telling me that my 10k 8k swift springs on fortune auto coils is too stiff for any type of driving but drifting? Cause I'm not building my car to drift
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No because I don't want to do another 5 lug conversion.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:04 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punxva
Ok, well i've been looking into buying aftermarket suspension parts for quite some time now, but i wanted to know exactually what i was getting, so i decided to make up this little faq about the basics of the suspension parts on our cars. The examples are mostly from SPLParts, i'm hoping that this may help others know what they are buying before hand, so they get the right type of setup for their personal driving style.



S13 Bushing Diagram
IMAGE#1
2- TC(tension rod)
4- LCA(lower control arm) front
6- LCA rear
8- Forward link (traction rod)
10- Rear Upper arm
12- Toe link
14- Upright (upper)
15- Upright (lower)
16- Sub-frame (front/lower)
17- Sub-frame (rear/upper)



Spring rate and ride height information
STOCK
Spring Rate - F : 2.0kg/mm (2.2 for sport package?)
Spring Rate - R : 2.0kg/mm (2.2 for sport package?)
Ride Height - F : 0"
Ride Height - R : 0"

EIBACH PROKIT
Spring Rate - F : 1.84~1.92kg/mm
Spring Rate - R : 2.3~2.4kg/mm
Ride Height - F : -1.8" (eibach site) -1" (jnm240 test)
Ride Height - R : -1.6" (eibach site) -.75" (test)

EIBACH SPORTLINE
Spring Rate - F : 1.92~2.0kg/mm
Spring Rate - R : 2.4~2.5kg/mm
Ride Height - F : -2.2" / -1.75" (test)
Ride Height - R : -2.1" / -1.75" (test)

H & R SPORT
Spring Rate - F : 2.0~2.08kg/mm
Spring Rate - R : 2.5~2.6kg/mm
Ride Height - F : -1.3"
Ride Height - R : -1.3"

TEIN S-TECH
(progressive, TEIN only lists the maximal rate)
Spring Rate - F : 3.7
Spring Rate - R : 3.2
Ride Height - F : -1.5"
Ride Height - R : -1.2"

TEIN HIGH-TECH
Spring Rate - F: 3.3 (s13); 3.2 (s14)
Spring Rate - R: 2.9 (s13); 3.1 (s14)
Ride Height - F: -0.9" (s13); -0.7" (s14)
Ride Height - R: -0.6" (s13); -0.4" (s14)

INTRAX SPORT SPRING KIT
Spring Rate - F : (Couldn't get through to tech support)
Spring Rate - R : (Couldn't get through to tech support)
Ride Height - F : -2.25"
Ride Height - R : -2.0"

SUSPENSION TECHNIQUES
Spring Rate - F : 3
Spring Rate - R : 2.66
Ride Height - F : -1.3"
Ride Height - R : -1.3" (?)

WHITELINE CONTROL
Spring Rate - F : S13&S14 = 2.8
Spring Rate - R : S13= 2.36~3.66 S14= 1.91~3.18
Ride Height - F : -1.75"
Ride Height - R : -1.75"

TANABE GF210
Spring Rate - F : 2.9
Spring Rate - R : 2.7
Ride Height - F : -1." to -1.6"
Ride Height - R : -.6" to -1"

RS*R DOWN SPRINGS
Spring Rate - F: 3.0
SPring Rate - R: 3.0
Ride Height - F: -1.6"(s13) -1.0"(s14)
Ride Height - R: -1.2" (s13) -0.6" (s14)

RS*R RACE SPRINGS
Spring Rate - F: 5.0
Spring Rate - R: 4.5(s13) 4.2 (s14)
Ride Height - F: -1.4"
Ride Height - R: -1.2" (s13) -1.0" (s14)

MEGAN RACING LOWERING SPRINGS MR-LS-NS13 (s13):
Springrate F: 6.25kg/mm (350lbs/in)
Springrate R: 4.46kg/mm (250lbs/in)
Ride Height F: 1.75"
Ride Height R: 1.75"

MEGAN RACING LOWERING SPRINGS MR-LS-NS14 (s14):
Springrate F: 6.25kg/mm (350lbs/in)
Springrate R: 4.46kg/mm (250lbs/in)
Ride Height F: 1.75"
Ride Height R: 1.75"

ESPELIR ACTIVE SUPER DOWN -
Front - 3.0kg/mm (168.0 lb/in) ~ drops 1.9"
Rear - 2.4kg/mm (134.4 lb/in) ~ drops 1.1"

KGMM S21 SPORT -
Front - 3.2kg/mm (179.2 lb/in)
Rear - 2.6kg/mm (145 lb/in)

KGMM S21 SUPERSPORT -
Front - 4.6kg/mm (257.6 lb/in)
Rear - 3.8kg/mm (212.8 lb/in)

KGMM DR Race -
Front - 6kg/mm
Rear - 5kg/mm
Ride Height - F: 2.2"
Ride Height - R: 1.2"

5ZIGEN R-RATE -
Front - 2.4 to 5.2kg/mm (134 to 291 lb/in) ~ drops 1.3"
Rear - 1.9 to 5.0kg/mm (106 to 280 lb/in) ~ drops 1.1"

KGMM S21 RACE -
Front - 6.6kg/mm (369.6 lb/in) ~drops ?"
Rear - 5.2kg/mm (291.2 lb/in) ~ drops ?"

Sway bar information
S13
Stock ? (data from Japanparts.com) JDM ?
Front 24mm
Rear 16mm

Suspension Techniques (data from STRacing.com)
Front 27mm
Rear 20.6mm

Whiteline (data from PDMRacing.com)
Front 27mm
Rear 20-22mm

Cusco (data from Japanparts.com)
Front 28mm
Rear 18mm

Tanabe (data from Tanabe-usa.com)
Front 30.4mm
Rear 22mm

Progress
Front 27mm
Rear 22mm

S14
Stock (data from CourtesyParts)
Front 27.2mm
Rear 15.9mm

Whiteline Adjustables (data from PDMRacing.com)
Front 27mm
Rear 20mm (22mm available as well)

Suspension Techniques (data from STRacing.com)
Front 28.6mm
Rear 20.6mm

Cusco (data from Japanparts.com)
Front 30mm
Rear 21mm

Nismo (data from Japanparts.com)
Front 30mm
Rear 23mm

Tanabe (data from Tanabe-usa.com)
Front 30.4mm
Rear 27.5mm

Progress
Front 30mm
Rear 24mm

Spring/shock adjustment guide

Spring Rate Changes (def. important for those who dont pay att. to this)
Modification - Effect on Suspension

Increase front and rear rate - Ride harshness increases; tires may not follow bumps causing reduced traction. Roll resistance increases.

Increase front rate only - Front ride rate increases. Front roll resistance increases, increasing understeer or reducing oversteer.

Increase rear rate only - Rear ride rate increases. Rear roll resistance increases, increasing oversteer or reducing understeer.

Decrease front and rear rate - Ride harshness decreases; tires follow bumps more effectively, possibly improving traction. Roll resistance decreases.

Decrease front rate only - Front ride rate decreases. Front roll resistance decreases, decreasing understeer or increasing oversteer.

Decrease rear rate only - Rear ride rate decreases. Rear roll resistance decreases, decreasing oversteer or increasing understeer.



Antiroll Bar Changes (aka sway bar)
Modification - Effect on Suspension

Increase front rate - Front roll resistance increases, increasing understeer or decreasing oversteer. May also reduce camber change, allowing better tire contact patch compliance with the road surface, reducing understeer.

Increase rear rate - Rear roll resistance increases, increasing oversteer or decreasing understeer. On independent rear suspensions, may also reduce camber change, allowing better contact patch compliance with road surface, reducing oversteer.

Decrease front rate - Front roll resistance decreases, decreasing understeer or increasing oversteer. More body roll could reduce tire contact patch area, causing understeer.

Decrease rear rate - Rear roll resistance decreases, decreasing oversteer or increasing understeer. On independent rear suspensions, more body roll could reduce tire contact patch area, causing oversteer.

Note - Remember to consider the construction of the sway bar and the endlinks. A solid sway bar has more resistance than a hollow bar of the same diameter. Also the addition of solid or polyurethane endlinks will artificially raise the diameter of the bar in terms of effectiveness.


Shock Absorber Changes (aka your struts)
Modification - Effect on Suspension

Rebound - The dampers resistance when the suspension is de-compressing (when you turn right the right side suspension is in rebound)

Bump - The dampers resistance when the suspension is compressing (when you turn right the left side suspension is in bump)

Increase rebound and bump rates - Ride harshness increases.

Increase rebound rates only - On bumps, tires may leave track surface.

Increase bump rates only - Body roll resisted; outside tire loaded too quickly; car won't stabilize into a turn.

Decrease rebound and bump rates - Ride harshness decreases; car may float over bumps.

Decrease rebound rates only - On bumps, tires follow track surface more effectively; car may continue to oscillate after bumps.

Decrease bump rates only - Body rolls quickly; car is slower to respond to turn-in.


How do I correct my suspension geometry?

Note: Almost every aftermarket arm has a solid rod end which replaces the worn stock rubber bushing. This increases road noise somewhat, but drastically increases the response of the suspension. It also reduces the compliancy of the suspension, which reduces the change in geometry when the suspension is bumped. This creates a much more stable feel in the car especially when cornering.

IMAGE#2

ADJUSTABLE TENSION RODS

Adjust Caster

Often one of the problem areas found in older 240s with the stock bushings still in place. The tension rod is found at the front of the car running between the front chassis and the lower control arm. It controls the amount of caster in the front suspension. Typically when raising the deg. of negative caster the steering wheel will have a stronger force to return to center when you let go of the wheel, and steering response will be slightly slower. When you lower the deg. of negative caster the steering will be more responsive, this can be beneficial and counter productive at the same time so keep adjustments in moderation.

IMAGE#3

ADJUSTABLE FRONT LOWER ARMS

Roll Moment Adjustment

Suggested only for those interested in competitive events, and or extensive track/drift usage. The arms have an adjustable shank (balljoint) that allows you to effectively raise and lower the arm, causing a corresponding change in roll geometry.

IMAGE#4

ADJUSTABLE REAR UPPER CONTROL ARMS

Rear Camber Adjustment

The rear upper control arm is a popular part because it is the only way to adjust the rear camber on the 240's besides the use of eccentric bolts. By accurately adjusting camber you can choose to either save your tires from a camber incited early death, or you can setup the rear camber to maintain the tire patch when the car pitches into the corner.

IMAGE#5

ADJUSTABLE REAR TRACTION ROD

Rear Bumpsteer Adjustment

When the suspension is lowered, an adjustable rear upper arm is usually installed to reduce the amount of negative camber at the ride height. However, when the rear upper arm is elongated to compensate for the negative camber, this alters the geometry of the rear multiple link and can cause bump-steer. Adjustment of the rear traction rod together with the rear tie rods (Hicas models) or rear toe arm (non-Hicas models), the geometry of the two two arms can be restored to eliminate bump-steer. Typically you want to make the traction rod longer than the OEM unit to reduce bumpsteer. Too much adjustment can cause an unstable change in toe when the suspension bumps. For this reason I suggest that the arm be adjusted minimally.

IMAGE#6

REAR TOE ARM

Rear Toe Adjustment

Note: HICAS model 240's cannot use these arms.

The stock rear toe adjustment has been found to run out when you have a lowered 240 with adjustable rear upper arms. For this reason the adjustable rear toe arm is made. Rear toe adjustments can change how the car pivots about a corner. Negative toe causes the rear end to want to rotate which can improve cornering but decreases stability. Positive toe works the opposite way, increasing stability but decreasing rear potential for rotation.

IMAGE#7

ADJUSTABLE REAR LOWER CONTROL ARMS

Rear Roll Center / Axis

Works in the same method as the front lower control arms.

IMAGE#8

REAR SUBFRAME TILT SPACERS

Rear Subframe Squat / Anti-Squat Properties

Subframe bushing spacers are used to tilt the subframe to change the rear suspension squat/anti-squat characteristic. Increase squat for drag racing or anti-squat for drift.

IMAGE#9

ECCENTRIC BOLTS

The 240 has eccentric bolts for rear camber and rear toe adjustment. These can cope with stock ride height and slightly lowered suspension geometries.




Well thats all for now, please correct this information, or add to it, thanks alot guys...



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Old 12-23-2012, 07:58 PM   #86
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.sorry typo.....
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:01 PM   #87
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Can some one help me out, I took my car to get alinement i had just installed new suspension. they said they try adjusting my ruca and I was hitting the fender? I'm really confuse because my old never had this problem and when I had just install my new suspension I adjusting them the same as my old. Now I'm getting negative camber and my wheel not even close to being in the middle it's hitting the rear bumper? Do I need to adjust the traction and toe, do I have my ruca install backward (but I really don't think I did) or do I just take it back for they can do the alinement right?
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:05 AM   #88
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Do you really think your question belongs in the "suspension FAQ" thread ?
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:07 PM   #89
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I have a question....

Can someone please post the eye to eye length of the front and rear OEM suspension / tension arms / lca's for the s13 and S14?


TIA

CH


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Old 11-14-2013, 05:59 PM   #90
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Want to widen my wheel base should i get 20mm spacers or get wheel adapters ? I he read that spacers arent good or safe but then others say they are...can you guys give me some input
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