The Sr20/Sr22vet thread

[RalliartRsX]

There is no inherent performance difference between the P11 and P12 head. All the gain is in the thinner valve stems.........but why would on run thinner valve stems for a track day vehicle?? One upgraded to the larger stem VET, all the advantage is lost and no they are on par

P12 higher initial investment, but the CAS reading above 7500-8000 becomes an issue (as hanz has mentioned)
You can keep P12 cams. And valve cover. An single solenoid.

Meh, if you are changing up, it will be a wash. P12 is several hundred higher initial purchase, so again, it may all be a wash once you go into machine work, etc.

YMMV

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by 2_Liter_Turbo

Ok cool, I thought so, but wanted to ask around a bit to make sure. Thanks man. And I totally understand having people still asking questions, I still get tons of questions from my old position in the industry, LOL. I don't mind helping here and there, but sometimes it gets a bit old for sure.

It doesn't necessarily get old, I just hate not actually being able to help them. I can just give my 2 cents and pass them off to a machinist lol.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Originally Posted by hanzbrady

It doesn't necessarily get old, I just hate not actually being able to help them. I can just give my 2 cents and pass them off to a machinist lol.

I guess it's a bit different for me, I get repetitive questions about what alignment to use, and other silly stuff like that, ha ha. Oh well, it's all good.

[S13VE]

When I say P12 I am talking 20v head in all instances, that's what I'm comparing the P11 to as I can get a 20v head complete.

Does that change anything really? Given I'd want bigger valve stems anyway?

[S13VE]

Also, what headgasket are people favouring?

[RZRSHARP_240SX]

I’m using a cometic head gasket

[S13VE]

I hear very mixed things about them,

Good things about Cosworth and Nitto, but Nitto only seem to make a big bore gasket.

[S13VE]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

There is no inherent performance difference between the P11 and P12 head. All the gain is in the thinner valve stems.........but why would on run thinner valve stems for a track day vehicle?? One upgraded to the larger stem VET, all the advantage is lost and no they are on par

P12 higher initial investment, but the CAS reading above 7500-8000 becomes an issue (as hanz has mentioned)
You can keep P12 cams. And valve cover. An single solenoid.

Meh, if you are changing up, it will be a wash. P12 is several hundred higher initial purchase, so again, it may all be a wash once you go into machine work, etc.

YMMV

When I say P12 I am talking 20v head in all instances, that's what I'm comparing the P11 to as I can get a 20v head complete.

Does that change anything really? Given I'd want bigger valve stems anyway?

[RalliartRsX]

P12 = 20V

If you want larger stem valves, there is no inherent advantage P11 over P12.

[S13VE]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

P12 = 20V

If you want larger stem valves, there is no inherent advantage P11 over P12.

I was talking more so cams.

If I'm putting new valves in either head then I could choose the p12 for the cams if they're better.

OR are we of the opinion that P11 valves, stock, are fine, as are the cams and I'll just give it a cleanup port, new springs, retainers, guides, seals and swap the single solenoid and cas/hall effect on?

[insa]

Originally Posted by hanzbrady

You can fix that with a lower resolution or a hall effect setup which is easier to read.

Thanks for your input. You say that a fix would be a lower resolution. How does one lower the resolution with the Nissan OEM CAS? Is there a solution for that?
Thanks!

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by insa

Thanks for your input. You say that a fix would be a lower resolution. How does one lower the resolution with the Nissan OEM CAS? Is there a solution for that?
Thanks!

AEM sells a lower resolution CAS disc with their Series 2 ECUs. I'm not sure if the disc from the RWD CAS fits the P12 CAS though.

Ultimately I'll always recommend the hall effect setup.

[EsChassisLove]

Anyone here running the Taarks crank trigger kit with the mechanical fuel pump??

Im ditching my plans for a triple pump radium set up for a mechanical pump.

Wondering if you have, what pump are you using?

[insa]

Originally Posted by hanzbrady

AEM sells a lower resolution CAS disc with their Series 2 ECUs. I'm not sure if the disc from the RWD CAS fits the P12 CAS though.

Ultimately I'll always recommend the hall effect setup.

That might be a solution, thanks again!

[S13VE]

I'm about to buy a heap of parts for this build, does anyone have info on how good to standard "upgraded" MLS Nissan SR20VE headgasket is?

I was looking at Cosworth but this gasket comes in the kit anyway.

[livelovesole]

So for the past year or so I’ve been gathering parts for my P12 vvl conversion and gathered pretty much everything except a cd009, ecu and fuel system. My goal was a 600hp reliable VE street car, but the idea of a 600hp+ 2jz chasiss just seems more reliable to me. I just wanted to ask the VE community for their input/ 2 cents about such a decision or they would have gone another route and see input as far as reliablity with such goals that I want.

[S13VE]

My first question is do you really need a 600hp street car?

Of course the answer is yes, but the question is more about whether you need an SRVE or not anyway.

I know for me, I am going VE because it's a track car, i want no rocker arm issues, and "easier" power from the better flowing head, better response from the VVL etc.

Chassis balance will be less critical in a street car unless you are a really serious street driver lol so throwing a heap more weight up front may be less of an issue. If reliability is a concern then you build your VE for 700hp and run it at 600 or if you are looking at swaps you can also consider mildly boosted LS.

Rule of thumb tends to be a bigger motor is going to make the power easier but any motor can struggle to make 600hp reliably if it's done on the cheap/tuned poorly, 2J is no different. Even something as simple as forgetting to upgrade the harmonic balancer - a known weak spot - can be a motor ending event. Then you've got cam selection issues if going VVTI, or you go without VVTI and but end up having to buy a better twin scroll manifold and newer gen turbo to get the response back.

How long do you pan to keep the car/what's your financial situation/what's important to you/how much do you know about Nissan vs Toyota egines etc etc all things to consider.

[livelovesole]

Originally Posted by S13VE

My first question is do you really need a 600hp street car?

Of course the answer is yes, but the question is more about whether you need an SRVE or not anyway.

I know for me, I am going VE because it's a track car, i want no rocker arm issues, and "easier" power from the better flowing head, better response from the VVL etc.

Chassis balance will be less critical in a street car unless you are a really serious street driver lol so throwing a heap more weight up front may be less of an issue. If reliability is a concern then you build your VE for 700hp and run it at 600 or if you are looking at swaps you can also consider mildly boosted LS.

Rule of thumb tends to be a bigger motor is going to make the power easier but any motor can struggle to make 600hp reliably if it's done on the cheap/tuned poorly, 2J is no different. Even something as simple as forgetting to upgrade the harmonic balancer - a known weak spot - can be a motor ending event. Then you've got cam selection issues if going VVTI, or you go without VVTI and but end up having to buy a better twin scroll manifold and newer gen turbo to get the response back.

How long do you pan to keep the car/what's your financial situation/what's important to you/how much do you know about Nissan vs Toyota egines etc etc all things to consider.

Well i have a 400hp SR at the moment. It’s fun, don’t get me wrong, but the urge for more is there. I feel like with 600hp i’d be pretty content with. My main reason going VE is doing something different. Handful of LS and JZ cars around, but a VE is pretty much unheard of. BUt yeah, i’ve done a bunch of research on this thread and google for parts, comparison of parts, reviews, etc. Believe me, I haven’t cheaped out of anything on this motor and have tried addressing any issuses people run into with this swap. I do plan on keeping it for awhile. Financially stable, no rush to build it. I’d say reliability is my biggest concern than a nice powerband.

[S13VE]

If having a point of difference matters and there's already 2J and LS cars around, you have the money to build it properly and you pretty much have everything you already need.

Doesn't seem like there's much to decide?

[livelovesole]

Originally Posted by S13VE

If having a point of difference matters and there's already 2J and LS cars around, you have the money to build it properly and you pretty much have everything you already need.

Doesn't seem like there's much to decide?

Very true, there’s just something about a big single 2j screaming that keeps my mind open to it.

[Standard]

The VET is so much cooler than any basic 2J/LS swap, and you already have the engine, the choice is easy!!

[livelovesole]

Does anyone recommend adjustable cam gears and 1/2in head studs for a ve shooting for 600+ hp?

[peglio]

Originally Posted by livelovesole

Does anyone recommend adjustable cam gears and 1/2in head studs for a ve shooting for 600+ hp?

I have fitted both to mine I think at that sort of power the 1/2” would be worthwhile . Generally they are recommended over 600hp but better safe than sorry imo

[CrunkGoat]

Well my build is slowly getting there and basically just have a few bolt ons left (intake, and a few swap parts.) My major decision now is what ECU to run. The engine is going in an old Datsun 510 and I'm doing a high compression NA build so don't think I need anything too crazy. Was looking at an AEM EMS 4 what's everyone think of that?

[TheRealSy90]

Whats the general consensus for the best head to use if doing an NA sr build? And i'm talking in stock form. Not a "built" VE head because that just seems unnecessary on a non turbo sr. It always confounds me when FWD sr20ve owners can rev their stock engines to 8-9k all day but in RWD land everyone has to fully build their head lol.
I'm starting to wonder how difficult it would be to weld a VE intake manifold flange onto GTIR manifold runners.

[RalliartRsX]

1) The only benefit a P12 head has over a P11 is the valve stem size (thinner by 0.5mm = more flow). Outside of that, no real benefits
2) P12 has better cams, valve cover, coil packs and single solenoid. If not building and reusing all those parts, that's the way to go
3) Welding a VE flange to GTi-R runners would pose an issues; not only do you have a deal with the boses from the ITBs, the plenum is not flanged for a TB. You would also have to get that welded (unless you want to keep the ITBS). Also, other fab issues that will arise due the runners not lining up/different shape, etc

[Yellow4g63]

For the ITB's EFI solutions has a itb kit for the Ve. Or if you want to dyi M3 throttle ITB'S are 50mm. Anything smaller wont help with the VE. If u use the N1 cams you can rev pretty high but I never tried it. I always just got springs.

[TheRealSy90]

I don't see any reason to not try and use the GTIR itbs and plenum since the engine should already be on a standalone engine management at that point anyways. And I can't imagine the runners between the GTIR and VE manifolds would be significantly off from eachother.

[RalliartRsX]

Go look at a GTir IM. There is a whole lot going on apart from just cut and shut

GTI-R Flange/lower runner with ITB
[IMG][/IMG]

SR20VE Lower runners


A few things
1) Port/lower runner spacing seems to be different
2) Runner shape
3) P11 VE is reverse taper. P12 is straight (shouldn't have an impact, just a FYI)
4) Vacuum ports on the lower manifold which need to be tied into the head flange for it all to work
5) Lowport vs High Port (if my memory serves me correctly)

And that's just to name a few. I have seen a few folks try and just give up. It actually looks pretty close on first glance however. Easier (and probably cheaper) to just buy a Xcessive, a set of horns and weld her up.

Not trying to disuade you, but its a little more intricate than just cut and shut (and there is proabably good reason not alot of folks have went that way)

Also, tuning speed density or TPS with ITBs is a bitch. There are tuners capable of doing it as this is nowhere close to a foreign concept, but you have to find the right person.

[Yellow4g63]

@therealsy80 for Na hp the gtir manifold just dosen't cut it. I forgot to mention Hayward made some nice ones too but $$$$.