LS1 powered S14 with motorplates and modded GTO pan

[a_ahmed]

ooh nice, long time no see, i see your project is still rocking looking forward to updates I think next year if all goes according to plan I'll go LS Keep it coming bro

[mmdb]

Nice work! It's pretty awesome looking at the KA and T56 transmission side to side. Also, the clutch and flywheel are HUGE on the t56.

As far as suspension, have you decided what type of suspension you'll go with? I spoke with the guys over at AST suspension who have a division in Japan who builds Aragosta suspension, and they suggested spring rates of 6kg front and rear. This is for a grip setup. I ran higher rates of 11kg/9kg front/rear and the car definitely didn't like that. Way too darty and very scary to drive at the limit. It was also very difficult to plant on corner exit. I dropped it down to 9kg/6kg and the car responded very, very well. Less darty, more grip during transitions, and on corner exit. I think dropping the front a bit, as suggested by AST, would help give the car more balance during transitions. Just thought you might be coming across the same issues.

[SicBastard]

Yeah the t56 clutch and flywheel are huge. And they weigh over 50 lbs together ! But that also means that you have enough surface area to hold 700 hp with a single face clutch with some civility.

I'm going with ohlins on the car. They come with 8r/6r stock. Even though I expect my weight balance to be shifted to the rear I'm going to start with that. I do like the idea of the higher rate (like the 9s your running) to limit the travel of the strut suspension up front. Instead of starting with higher spring rates though I'm going to try the 8s with a monster anti roll bar in front and a 300zx turbo anti roll bar in the rear.

mmdb, are you going to go lower than 9 in the front? What anti roll bars are you running?

[mmdb]

Well, I would like to keep it around 8-9kg in the front, but AST in Japan (aka Aragosta) recommended 6kg all around according to my weight distribution specs and my description of how the car felt (didn't like transitions). Although it seemed a bit soft, it should help balance the car for more cornering power.

I'm currently running a stock bar up front and no bar in the rear. I get a slight bit of understeer during mid corner to exit which is REALLY nice. The understeer could always turn to oversteer with a tap of the throttle if you needed the car to rotate a little like in an auto-x course. I'll up the rate on the front roll bar a bit more once I figure out how to get the roll bar to clear the oil pan... or maybe event cut the oil pan a little in the front to get the bar to clear.

[SicBastard]

The ASA dry sump system forces me to go with the F body acc mounts, which I had been hoping to avoid just for the extra .750" worth of clearance to the radiator fan. Such is...

I already have the shorter (by .750") LS7 water pump sitting around. I had thought about asking wegner motorsports to make me a .50" thick water pump spacer. I only need a .50" thick spacer because the motor plate that sits between the block and water pump is already .25" thick. Instead I think I'm just going to use a pulley puller to slide the water pump pulley that .50" and then make my own spacer to bring up the belt tensioner that mounts to the waterpump out of the scrap that I have left over from the motor plate aluminum after cutting out the clearance for the dry sump pump. Then just a little spot weld to secure the pulley to the shaft and I'm good to go. I don't have to buy anything!

[SicBastard]

I've moved to Long Island. My little apt doesn't have real garages available... so I rented one in Queens! Here's the beast getting dropped off. You'll notice the rear sitting low because the F'n Ohlins still aren't here (sent out 11/07)! After ordering just basic rebuild parts from Japan without without actually looking at my shocks (wait a few months), then actually ordering specific parts I needed (wait a few months), and now realizing that those specific parts that showed up are different then what I need I'm presuming that I'm going to be waiting a few months.

[SicBastard]

Called ohlins again today, the cat that used to "take care of" their parts ordering from Japan, no longer works there...

Talked to a nice guy named Christer who has taken his place. They said that they need to order entirely new shock bodies for the rear. I asked them to look into ordering them with the 300zx spindel mounts instead of the 240sx mounts for me. Maybe there will be a silver lining in all of this frustration. (the 300zx spindles are made of Aluminum instead of iron like the 240sx and save you 3.5 (7?) lbs per rear corner) Christer wasn't sure and said he'd get back to me. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[aNskY]

sick build brotha. i am impressed (and envious!)

if you havent sourced your z32 spindles yet, i have a pair chillin somewhere in my garage that are never gonna be put to good use... yours on the cheap if ya want em

[az_240]

Originally Posted by SicBastard

Called ohlins again today, the cat that used to "take care of" their parts ordering from Japan, no longer works there...

Talked to a nice guy named Christer who has taken his place. They said that they need to order entirely new shock bodies for the rear. I asked them to look into ordering them with the 300zx spindel mounts instead of the 240sx mounts for me. Maybe there will be a silver lining in all of this frustration. (the 300zx spindles are made of Aluminum instead of iron like the 240sx and save you 3.5 (7?) lbs per rear corner) Christer wasn't sure and said he'd get back to me. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

What do you plan to use for a bushing? I was gonna order some spherical bushings but they are $300 from spls site...

the stock one makes the bracket hit the upright slightly and the angle sucks.... stock bushing is pretty sloppy

[SicBastard]

Ansky, if ohlins responds in the affirmative, I will for sure be shooting you a pm!

Az240, from your pic it doesn't look like any bushing is going to correct the misalignment. Perhaps the top of upright could stand just a touch of die grinder massaging? I checked out your thread

http://zilvia.net/f/chat/206038-thos...-coilover.html

And it seems like Def is onto something. If this all works out he'll be getting a pm (and pay pal) from me as well for his sperical bushing. That looks like a lot of angle for any bushing though, sperical or not.

And if ohlins is interested in actually doing this right, I'll bring this to their attention... goes into day dream mode...

Maybe after I get these mounted they'll want me to come down to South Carolina so they can investigate how wide the bracket would have to be to clear the upright correctly. Then while I'm down there they'll be so appreciative of my bringing my car down that they'll throw it on their 7 post shaker rig, load up their road atlanta program and we'll further dial in my dampning! Oh yeah! It's gunna be GREAT!...

Re-enters reality....

Even if I have to install some (new) stock bushings in that one location just to manage that high-defelection it would probably be worth 7 lbs/corner... Die grinder

[RUTH'LESSDET]

Originally Posted by SicBastard

I've moved to Long Island. My little apt doesn't have real garages available... so I rented one in Queens! Here's the beast getting dropped off. You'll notice the rear sitting low because the F'n Ohlins still aren't here (sent out 11/07)! After ordering just basic rebuild parts from Japan without without actually looking at my shocks (wait a few months), then actually ordering specific parts I needed (wait a few months), and now realizing that those specific parts that showed up are different then what I need I'm presuming that I'm going to be waiting a few months.

Hey I live in queens too i would love to see that beast i just got my ls2 fired up!!! give me a holla

[SicBastard]

I already rolled the rear fenders. May be even a touch too much as I think I might need a 10mm spacer in back now for the wheel to look completely flush.
I should have stopped here...

But I pulled it just a tad more. Even though the above looks evil the notion of a rub at 100+ miles per hour didn't sit well with me.

And this just for kicks. AceInHole is running 285s on all four corners! The fronts specifically are 285/30/R18 on 18x10 +20 motegi wheels. I seriously thought that I was pushing the boundries of stock rolled and pulled front steel fenders when I ordered my 17x9 wheels for 255 tires for the front of my car almost two years ago. When I can afford serious brakes that require 18" wheels I will be upgrading to this size tire at some distant point in the future.


I still think that greater than 285 is possible with stock roll/pulled fenders in the rear though. Once the ohlins are in I'll measure the inside clearance to the coilover and let you all know exactly how much clearance is left.

[Buriantsu]

Good stuff.

[SicBastard]

I've been reading up on piston design. I've read a few debates on reverse dome vs. traditional circumferential dish. I was leaning towards a reverse dome when I cam across some writings by Larry Widmer of Endyn.

He has some interesting theories about basically building a reverse dome on the exhaust side of the piston with a regular dome on the intake side of the piston in order to mechanically induce swirl and a better/faster/more localized burn. Even more interesting than his theories are his results! His personal street car is running 13.4:1 compression on 92 octane with VERY little ignition advance (down to 10 degrees), and 300 hp out of 2L with incredibly low BSFC. He originally developed his ideas in the 70s while working on 2 valve nascar heads, though Endyn now seems to specialize parts for N/A hondas.

I've really enjoyed his articles:

The Old One - Energy Dynamics

and here are some pics of his ideas on piston design I pilfered from his web site (I hope he doesn't mind)







I have a set of stock CNC LS7 heads that have been milled to a 63cc cumbustion chamber



What's up with the funny button of material in the chamber just above the spark plug between the intake and exhaust halves of the chamber? I hope some of the head porters stop by.



With the cam that I am considering now with a IVC of 43.5/68.5 @ .050"/.006" lift I am going to need a dish of about 16cc to keep my DCR below 9. I think that might be a difficult piston to design. Especially for these LS7 heads which seem to have the majority of their chamber volume below the intake (which Mr. Widmer suggests I eliminate with a partial traditional dome; even at the expense of intake valve lift!).

Has anyone tried "soft head" style design on an LS or any other engine?

[codyace]

FWIW: While I don't have any major knowledge on head design, I do know that the L92 truck heads have a similar odd bump above the spark plug area.

[IIIXziuR]

Nice to see your still working on this thing Dru!
Whats the word man? It has been a while since we last spoke.

How long will you be on Long Island for?
Whats going on with the 14 Build?

-Jonny

[SicBastard]

Been out here since July. School is still kicking my but, but I hope to beable to make some serious progress in November. I also scored a set of Oliver 6.125 rods for a song on ebay. I just mailed them directly to oliver to make sure that they are 100% before I put them in my beauty.

I also scored a set of sway bars off of a 300zxtt, I plan on using the rears (more than an inch thick, hollow, and with two reliefs for duel exhaust!).

Before I design my piston domes I'll be sure to talk to some guys that have had good results with their LS7/L92 head porting programs. It's going to be tough to get any real info though because almost nobody touches the chambers, and everyone seems to be running flat top pistons other than katech.

If any one cares, I can vouch for Jonny...
He's not a D-bag.

[g6civcx]

Could you please measure your engine's mounting and compare it with mine in here? http://zilvia.net/f/engine-tech/1989...surements.html

I'm curious to see how high and far back your LS-series is sitting compared to my cast iron Gen O.

[twistex]

nice work. i love it !

[IIIXziuR]

HAHA good to hear Dru!
Your project is so serious and so awesome.
I just wish you were in NJ still

[SicBastard]

Thanks for the props guys!
I've been having a lot of fun getting into the nitty gritty of suspension design and engine building with this project.
As much as finishing the project is a major goal, so is learing as much as I can. Someday I'd like to take what I've learned hear and build a one-off, half ton, single seat commuter car. One thing at a time.

I've been following dent sport's build for a long time. I'd like to do a lot of the same type of events as he's doing. Like time attacks and hill climbs. I've printed out red lines rules regarding cage design and other things, as well as nasa's, and while I was at it the NHRAs (all though it seems they will allow most things if they were built to the rules of another sanctioning body).

Check out dent sport's build here
http://zilvia.net/f/chat/190780-dsg-...l-ways-go.html

And something else that I would love to do is buy a rally computer and go do a targa with my pops. Oh and Bonneville has always been a dream, maybe the silverstate classic, or maxton here on the east coast. My grandfather used to race a model A at the dry lakes is CA when he was younger than I am, I'd love to do that too. I just want to go have fun and have the fastest car I can build. I've got a lot of dreams!

check out targa Newfoundland here:
Targa Newfoundland - It's About the Drive

-=Peace and Tire Smoke=-

[SicBastard]

David Vizard had a hand at MTI in the development of their LS7 head porting program. He wrote a short article about it here:
7 Liter Corvette Heads - can they be improved upon? - GoFastNews.com - All Racing News All the Time!

They obviously removed the little pad above the spark plug! If it works for David Vizard...

Also, after not calling me back I called Ohlins again the other day. They don't think that they are going to be able to hook me up with a 300zx style rear-bottom mount even though I need entirely new shock bodies back there! I'm about to change my avatar.

[timster]

Clean and tasteful project, I really like it.

I'm starting an LSxt56 swap into my s13 coupe, however a donor car is proving to be hard to come by. Damn fbody drivers need to stop trying to sell wrecked cars for only 1500 less than the car is worth not wrecked.

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by timster

Clean and tasteful project, I really like it.

I'm starting an LSxt56 swap into my s13 coupe, however a donor car is proving to be hard to come by. Damn fbody drivers need to stop trying to sell wrecked cars for only 1500 less than the car is worth not wrecked.

If you're trying to go budget and don't have to worry about stringent laws regarding registration, consider an aluminum truck motor and then bolt a t5 to it. You're smart to look for a clip though. Saves a lot of time and money. If you've got the cash though the GTOs came with a nicer version of the t56 (worse gearing for 1st gear, but better synchros, and more performance oriented 5th and 6th gear) and will be easy to register.

[SicBastard]

Somebody Pm'd me about my radiator:

I found my radiator on ebay, although monster motorsports is a good source also. Mine was custom built for Hendricks motorsports for a nascar qualifying car, but never used. Scored it for $260 (they are about $1300 custom/new)... twice because the first one I found UPS threw over my fence and destroyed it. There's only 26-27" between the frame rail which is much more narrow than 90% of the nascar radiators. But we have more room verticly. Also beware of the built in oil to water oil coolers because they will prevent you from putting any angle/v-mount because of frame rail clearance issues. The welds on the C&R are amazing. But beware of superspeedway radiators with >15 fins/sq.in. they may be a little too dense for street use. Mine is 15. Also don't go too thick if you don't need it. 5" thick radiators get pretty heavy once they are full of water.

[trsilvias13]

How tall is your radiator?

[SicBastard]

The last one was 18", the one I have now I think is 19".

[trsilvias13]

do you mind taking a pic of how the clearance and how much taller it is above the radiator support. I found a 26x16x3. I am debating between 16" tall or 19 "tall.

[SicBastard]

Check post 58 on pg 2

[g6civcx]

Can you take some measurements like I asked for in the last page for comparison?

Most mounts I've seen place the LS-series really high.