Team Zimmerman Vs Team Martin?

[tricky_ab]

Originally Posted by redline racer510

I honestly think Zimmerman was trying to be a hero by trying to confront Trayvon, it got physical, Zimmerman got a ass whooping and tried to get away. Trayvon than ran after Zimmerman, Zimmerman pulled the gun out and both men started fighting over gun, gun was fired killing Trayvon, end of story. As for the police ignoring the investigation show me some proof. Law enforcement officers have a duty to report anything that they confront.

Look up. Also I'm at work so I don't have the time to pull links up.

Crib notes version. The first cops on the scene were from Narcotics squad who didn't inverview Zemmerman. They asked lead type questions and generally did a piss poor job of collecting evidence and eye witness accounts.

An example for me would be if Zimmerman was truly getting his head slammed into the ground, and got his nose broken, he would have went to the hospital. Also the police would have taken photos of his battered face for evidence. They didn't, and that's a integral part of his defense.

If they would have done a proper job from the beginning, we could have the ball rolling in court.

Originally Posted by TheWolf

wall of sweeping generalizations

Just for you, I'll try not to embellish so much. Granted, there are one or two instances of non-black 911 calls he made, but that doesn't change what I stated previously.

36. April 22, 2011 – 7:09 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Juvenile black male “apprx 7–9” years old, four feet tall “skinny build short blk hair” last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts

Man those young trouble makers are ruining everything...right?!

[redline racer510]

Originally Posted by TheWolf

According to local "news sources" martin had zimmerman flat out on the ground and was pounding his face in. At which point zimmerman drew his pistol and shot martin. You'll never be able to prove who initiated contact. If you've got any other evidence other than a witness that "heard" someone scream for help. That sounds like textbook self defense. A girlfriend on a phone, not in the same county, isn't a stellar unbiased eye witness to anything. All zimmerman did was ask "hey, what are you doing here?" A fairly reasonable question for a kid that was new to this complex walking around at night dressed suspiciously. (To be honest, I wouldn't wear a ski mask into a bank and then claim to be profiled as a bank robber. Go around looking like a hood rat, get mistaken for one)

No one ever asks "Why didn't martin (who was obviously concerned) call the police?" Why didn't he call and say "Man there's a suspicious person following me, I need a cop out here asap". Could he have had a reason not to call the police? Why was he wearing a hoodie and jeans? It wasn't even cold enough for that. The high was 85 that day. This is florida, not chicago. It's warm in feb. Alas, the black man can make no mistakes in the eyes of blacks. If anything here, it's blacks that are being racist. Hispanics are now "white people". Black groups offering 10k bounties for the death of zimmerman or members of his family. Forming a lynchmob and demanding someones arrest when the case is anything but cut and dry and yet the cops can't be trusted because they side on the white guy every time. Sounds like 1960 all over again except from the other side. So now what? Gonna drag your dead son visage up to capitol hill to demand that they arrest someone without any eye witnesses and no hard evidence? Make it part of the "Keeping them honest" campaign. Who's "them" anyway? White america?

If we're going to assume all this stuff about zimmerman such as he aggressively hunted him because he was black because he hated blacks. (which is, legally, a long distance from a neighborhood watch guy running into a kid twice in one complex) Can we not assume some stuff about martin then. Maybe going to the store was really about buying some drugs. Maybe he tossed it in the bushes while running from zimmerman. Wouldn't be the first time and would be a great reason for not calling the police. I can't imagine watching basketball till almost midnight then going upto the store just for skittles and tea. Especially if you had to get up early for school in the morning. Oh thats right, Martin was serving a 10 day suspension for being a model "A" student in a low performing ghetto school. Ever think there might be more to this story than the keenly cookie cutter media story?

If the 17-24 black male no longer wants to be racially profiled. The 17-24 year old black male should clean up their act as a societal whole. 1.6% of the population in the state doing 60% of the violent crime in the state. It's not racist, it's statistics. Dear black america. Quit playing the race card, It's more played out than "hella flush". If you don't start nothing, there won't be nothing.

+1 I think you hit the nail on the head, there is too much suspicion on the questionable evidence they have on Zimmerman. Black America only hurts it's self by having the guy arrested without any strong evidence, and I am sure they wouldn't like it if it was them in Zimmerman's shoes. Walking around a neighborhood in suspicous clothing in 85 degree weather isn't exactly a stereotype but rather out of the ordinary for the place and time of the occurance. BTW media hypes this incident way too much when there are more important things happening.

[atom]

Zimmerman said he was walking back to his SUV when Martin then pursued him. If that's the case then it seems like the stand your ground law would apply? Even if Zimmerman initially started the sequence of events, when Martin had the chance to walk away after Zimmerman stops pursuit but decides to now confront Zimmerman, logically it seems like Zimmerman can now claim self-defense.

Whether or not this actually happened is sorta irrelevant. It's Zimmerman's word alone and the police have to basically accept that as what happened unless witnesses come forward to say otherwise.

[Jybfan04]

Originally Posted by redline racer510

Maybe because there is a lack of evidence. You can't arrest someone based off of low quality telephone recording and if there is witnesses how come we haven't see or heard from any of them. Sounds like there using the recordings to make it seem like a hate crime when it could have been some other noise that sounds like he said the alleged hate words. You have to look at this from both sides. Just because the victim was killed does not make him any less guilty.

SMH...

Evidence number one, he called 911 they told him to stand down he instead followed him.

Evidence number two, he was a self appointed neighborhood watch captain

Evidence number three, how can you claim self defense when the person your defending yourself from doesn't have any weapon?



Race aside, I just ask people to think logically.

Everything about this case is wrong..

Period point blank!

Originally Posted by imotion s14

Anyone know why this angel was suspended from school for 5 days?

So being suspended from school for 5 days mean what?

Please try to find a way to make a rationale argument in how that matters in anyway shape or form?

ps....


I'll wait patiently!

Originally Posted by Corbic

I don't think anyone has sided with Zimmerman. The question was posed should police arrest and jail you based on petitions and public opinion.

Second, the sources of your information are questionable and agenda driven.

Example: you state Zimmy called the police 11 times in 3 months - as if it shows he is bad. Ever think this shows he is just doing his "job" as the watchmen? Maybe this is why he ignored the request to break off pursuit. Maybe that's how it always goes "okay we'll look into it" and they never do, thus he now feels its up to him.

If he's had so much contact with him, and there are complaints, why are the cops not looking into this "loose cannon"?

Lastly, none of this answers what the kid was doing there in the first place. As my old man always says "nothing good happens after midnight".

I think a lot of individuals mistake the purpose of the petitions...

They aren't meant to wrongfully jail anyone, but to ensure that due diligence is done. Its no reason, this man shouldn't be locked up pending the investigation. Nothing about this case screams self defense, i'm sorry.

[KiLLeR2001]

An Unfortunate T-Shirt Hits Florida Streets In Wake Of Trayvon Martin Killing | The Smoking Gun

LOL.

[S14DB]

Video: North Miami Beach High Students Ransack Walgreens After Trayvon Martin Protest - Miami News - Riptide 2.0

[theicecreamdan]

A hoodie is not suspicious clothing. A lot of people wear them, even when its warm.

Originally Posted by Jybfan04

Evidence number three, how can you claim self defense when the person your defending yourself from doesn't have any weapon?

You don't need a "weapon" to be deadly/cause major bodily harm.

[delado]

Originally Posted by S14DB

Video: North Miami Beach High Students Ransack Walgreens After Trayvon Martin Protest - Miami News - Riptide 2.0

Fucking smart.

[Jybfan04]

Originally Posted by theicecreamdan

A hoodie is not suspicious clothing. A lot of people wear them, even when its warm.



You don't need a "weapon" to be deadly/cause major bodily harm.

With that logic, Trayvon would still be alive and Zimmerman dead...

Zimmerman had a gun, Trayvon didn't...

Think logic and rationality, not race...

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by Jybfan04

SMH...

Evidence number three, how can you claim self defense when the person your defending yourself from doesn't have any weapon?

You asked this.

Originally Posted by theicecreamdan

You don't need a "weapon" to be deadly/cause major bodily harm.

He answered with this.

Self defense is self defense, someone doesn't have to have an equal amount of "firepower" to defend themselves. If someone felt that their life was in danger enough to draw a weapon and shoot then more than likely there is a bit more to the story then suspected. Anyways it's all he said she said shit anyways, nobody on here was at the scene of the crime so you are all arguing over semantics. You can't petition someone into jail and rioting certainly isn't going to help your cause.

[Jybfan04]

Originally Posted by raz0rbladez909

You asked this.



He answered with this.

Self defense is self defense, someone doesn't have to have an equal amount of "firepower" to defend themselves. If someone felt that their life was in danger enough to draw a weapon and shoot then more than likely there is a bit more to the story then suspected. Anyways it's all he said she said shit anyways, nobody on here was at the scene of the crime so you are all arguing over semantics. You can't petition someone into jail and rioting certainly isn't going to help your cause.

I'm not arguing over semantics, i'm arguing based on the FACTS that have been presented. IMO, I just don't see how one logically can say they were scared of their lives when you have the upper hand ie 9mm gun.

At the end of the day, I just hope justice is served based on the evidence presented in the case.

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by Jybfan04

I'm not arguing over semantics, i'm arguing based on the FACTS that have been presented. IMO, I just don't see how one logically can say they were scared of their lives when you have the upper hand ie 9mm gun.

At the end of the day, I just hope justice is served based on the evidence presented in the case.

What justice? From what I've seen so far is that there really isn't a whole lot of evidence besides he said she said information and the public outcry because one persons skin color is different then anothers. Now was it racially motivated? Possibly, but none of us were involved so all we know is what the media tells us. Telephone recordings aren't exactly without a doubt evidence, and his own father said that wasn't his sons voice crying out for help. I wish there were more evidence to this but I'm not going to go try and burn someone at the stake because there is a perceived racial motivation.

Does anybody ever stop to think that maybe they might be the racist ones when the first thing they notice is a light skinned person and dark skinned person?

[redline racer510]

It's the word of someone that is alive against someone that is dead. Unless a first hand witness comes out with additional evidence there is nothing you can do. does not matter what happens. Even if they do take him to court, what is going to be the evidence against Zimmerman, a low quality phone recording between Zimmerman and the police department where he allegedly made racist comments towards trayvon? This is a failed case right from the beginning no matter how you look at it and who's side you take. There is no hard evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter or even criminal negligence.

[db_s13]

i could care less about the whole race thing (im a young black male), but its the negligence of the police officers who didnt follow procedures on the initial investigation, tried to correct witnesses, and failed to follow all leads. Also the blatant disregard to the police dispatchers orders that zimmerman showed and subsequently concluded in the death of a kid (no matter the size he's a kid) who only had skittles and ice tea in his possesion. In ANY case that results with a death in a confrontation between two citizen (not included law enforcement obviously), the person who killed the other should be put in jail until a bond is posted or the trial is over.

I will again ask... Would you be happy with the investigation conducted if this was your 17 year old son?

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by db_s13

i could care less about the whole race thing (im a young black male), but its the negligence of the police officers who didnt follow procedures on the initial investigation, tried to correct witnesses, and failed to follow all leads. Also the blatant disregard to the police dispatchers orders that zimmerman showed and subsequently concluded in the death of a kid (no matter the size he's a kid) who only had skittles and ice tea in his possesion. In ANY case that results with a death in a confrontation between two citizen (not included law enforcent obviously), the person who killed the other should be put in jail until a bond is posted or the trial is over.

I will again ask... Would you be happy with the investigation conducted if this was your 17 year out son

I certainly don't think anyone is happy with the outcome, but if it were my KID, he certainly wouldn't be out by himself roaming around at/around midnight. That is the responsibility of the PARENT, if I see kid's roaming around my neighborhood late at night I'm assuming they're up to no good no matter what race they are or what they're wearing. There is nothing for a minor to do after midnight. Someone has said it before and I'll say it again. "Nothing good happens after midnight."

There is certainly plenty of things that were handled incorrectly in this case, and that is quite obvious, however that doesn't automatically make Zimmerman guilty though. Yes it was a teenager, yes he was a minority which I wish wasn't the primary focus in this, but teenagers are just as capable of violence as anyone else. Everybody knows when you're younger you tend to think you are invincible, and your pride tends to come first in any situation. I don't find it hard to believe that he may have come back to get back at Zimmerman for chasing him. There are two sides to every story, one of them can't be told, Zimmerman isn't going to go to jail if there isn't without a doubt proof.

The really sad part is the rioting and bounties being put out, thats just plain uncivilized behavior at the least and it isn't helping anything in the situation.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by db_s13

I will again ask... Would you be happy with the investigation conducted if this was your 17 year old son?

The "your kid" is just a bad argument. Anyone would be upset and expecting "more" if their kid was shot and killed, even if while committing an armed robbery.

"he was a good kid caught up in a bad situation..."

[db_s13]

Originally Posted by raz0rbladez909

I certainly don't think anyone is happy with the outcome, but if it were my KID, he certainly wouldn't be out by himself roaming around at/around midnight. That is the responsibility of the PARENT, if I see kid's roaming around my neighborhood late at night I'm assuming they're up to no good no matter what race they are or what they're wearing. Someone has said it before and I'll say it again. "Nothing good happens after midnight."

There is certainly plenty of things that were handled incorrectly in this case, and that is quite obvious, however that doesn't automatically make Zimmerman guilty though. Yes it was a teenager, yes he was a minority which I wish wasn't the primary focus in this, but teenagers are just as capable of violence as anyone else. Everybody knows when you're younger you tend to think you are invincible, and your pride tends to come first in any situation. I don't find it hard to believe that he may have come back to get back at Zimmerman for chasing him. There are two sides to every story, one of them can't be told, Zimmerman isn't going to go to jail if there isn't without a doubt proof.

The really sad part is the rioting and bounties being put out, thats just plain uncivilized behavior at the least and it isn't helping anything in the situation.

i never said anything about zimmerman being guilty... just saying that there are too many unknowns for the absence of a fair trial

Yes you would let your kid go to the store by themself but they did it was 7pm and the sunset was problably during his way home so it was hardly dark

if a person follows a person into an alley while questioning them on where they are going and why they are there with a gun in a visible location and they turn around and punch you in the face and then you pull the gun and shoot the person... as long as they hit you and there are no other witnesses its defending yourself and you dont have to have a trial, am i right? fuck no

the black panther people are extreme tho lol

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by db_s13

if a person follows a person into an alley while questioning them on where they are going and why they are there with a gun in a visible location and they turn around and punch you in the face and then you pull the gun and shoot the person... as long as they hit you and there are no other witnesses its defending yourself and you dont have to have a trial, am i right? fuck no

the black panther people are extreme tho lol

There was never a time that I said that the kid was undeserving of a fair trial or that he deserved to be shot, nobody deserves that. The situation is just sketchy all around, but you have all these hate crime activists trying to bust a salem witch trial on a guy that for all you or I know could've really been defending himself after the initial confrontation.

The other thing is none of us know how it went down, as we were not there; Therefore we cannot jump to a conclusion without evidence. There is a reason it is innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around, because half of the people arguing for the guy to be immediately arrested have no idea what they would charge him for. There is simply not enough evidence to prove without a doubt that it WASN'T done in self defense.

Here's another scenario. Lets just say Trayvon was successful in striking Zimmerman and managed to knock him out and just happened to notice he had a gun and decided to put a bullet in Zimmerman, would there be the same kind of media coverage or extreme amounts of racism going on here? Or would it be just another "regular" murder in the news. I find this kind of stuff disgusting because then it would no longer be considered a hate crime.

[Danb]

Blacks make up 50-60% of prison inmates but only roughly 15% of the united states population.

Shits out of control. I can see zimmermans motive

[db_s13]

Originally Posted by raz0rbladez909

There was never a time that I said that the kid was undeserving of a fair trial or that he deserved to be shot, nobody deserves that. The situation is just sketchy all around, but you have all these hate crime activists trying to bust a salem witch trial on a guy that for all you or I know could've really been defending himself after the initial confrontation.

The other thing is none of us know how it went down, as we were not there; Therefore we cannot jump to a conclusion without evidence. There is a reason it is innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around, because half of the people arguing for the guy to be immediately arrested have no idea what they would charge him for. There is simply not enough evidence to prove without a doubt that it WASN'T done in self defense.

Here's another scenario. Lets just say Trayvon was successful in striking Zimmerman and managed to knock him out and just happened to notice he had a gun and decided to put a bullet in Zimmerman, would there be the same kind of media coverage or extreme amounts of racism going on here? Or would it be just another "regular" murder in the news. I find this kind of stuff disgusting because then it would no longer be considered a hate crime.

the senator that wrote the "stand your ground" law said that according to the story line that zimmerman gave that he was NOT covered under the law due to him initiating the confrontation (getting out the car and approaching him with a visible loaded hand gun)

if trayvon knock him out then shot him? yes that is murder because zimmerman posed no threat after being rendered unconscious

[db_s13]

Originally Posted by Danb

Blacks make up 50-60% of prison inmates but only roughly 15% of the united states population.

Shits out of control. I can see zimmermans motive

explain yourself because this is coming off as a very racist remark

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by Danb

Blacks make up 50-60% of prison inmates but only roughly 15% of the united states population.

Shits out of control. I can see zimmermans motive

Where are you getting your statistics? You can't just throw out numbers and not provide a source. Even if those statistics were true, not all black people are the same just like not all white people are the same, you can't go judging people based on statistics for prison inmates. At that rate it just keeps racism going.

[HyperTek]

Originally Posted by S14DB

Video: North Miami Beach High Students Ransack Walgreens After Trayvon Martin Protest - Miami News - Riptide 2.0

edit: from what it looks like, they didnt grab anything, maybe they thought they would just run in there to show that they shouldnt be suspicious of stealing anything.

[KiLLeR2001]

Lets put it this way. There was WAY MORE evidence in the Casey Anthony case to put her away for murder... Look where she is now. This will be dismissed. Lets move on now.

[LEG1T]

So about Zimmerman being attacked...

I see no blood nor bruises?



See for yourself.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by LEG1T

So about Zimmerman being attacked...

I see no blood nor bruises?



See for yourself.

Your link is not working, so I am giving another.
Trayvon Martin Case: Exclusive Surveillance Video of George Zimmerman - ABC News

And in response to the passive-aggressive racist's FAVORITE play (not to the above quoted unless you take it personally), the "I have tons of black friends" approach, Zimmerman's token black friend is being exposed as nothing more than a slavecatcher. (videos contained)
Joe Oliver Exposed on Lawrence O'Donnell's Last Call | News One
No, it does not make one a racist to call attention to the obviousness that something is (even potentially) racially rooted. However, it lends HARD to one being racist to spout off broad-sweeping generalizations, hazy-ass pseudo-"facts" and out-of-context victim blaming to a level that I have not yet seen in my almost 33 years.


Now...
FACT: the initial attempted charge in this case was of manslaughter... Given what we KNOW - that the now-deceased had EVERY right to be in the neighborhood and NO duty to respond to the person who murdered him and that his killer defied what he was told in order to pursue him - a manslaughter charge makes sense to me at least.
OPINIONS: EVERYTHING else that has been said, up to and including the almost and overt racist shit a couple or few people have said in this thread.
FACT: Zimmerman has a past that has been hidden by his position, with a dad that is a retired judge and mother who was the clerk of that court, he has a history of aggressive behaviors that are inexplicably hidden (see above FACTS) or simply reduced to slaps on the wrist. If one believes in the "good ol boy" network, then now is the time to corroborate that.

Please separate facts from opinions when making statements, because I have made decisions that I will SPECIFICALLY refrain from EVER addressing at least 3 people who commented in this thread based upon their inability to do so.

[theicecreamdan]

I think its unfortunate that I need to clarify that I'm not arguing in defense of either part. Its obvious that the investigation into Trayvon's death got screwed up. Very few people have intimate knowledge of any FACTS regarding what happened. A lot of people bring up a lot of facts about things that happened in the past that have very little to do with what happened.

IF Zimmerman did not act in self defense, arresting him before the FACTS are put together won't result in justice.

In the absence of relevant facts the media has brought a lot of attention to stuff that doesn't matter. Don't get sucked into the BS
A hoodie is "suspicious"?
A high school suspension matters when somebody is DEAD?

Originally Posted by Jybfan04

With that logic, Trayvon would still be alive and Zimmerman dead...

Zimmerman had a gun, Trayvon didn't...

Think logic and rationality, not race...

I never said a gun wasn't more deadly than an unarmed person. I said an unarmed person can still be deadly.
Man killed by one punch in Vegas casino brawl - CBS News

One punch. Dead. That's not the only story. It doesn't matter if the fist is black, white, green or any color. No weapon does not mean not deadly.

At what point IF you are being attacked do you draw the line to determine if somebody attacking you is going to kill you?

[redline racer510]

I agree with above comments

[redline racer510]

Originally Posted by Phlip

Your link is not working, so I am giving another.
Trayvon Martin Case: Exclusive Surveillance Video of George Zimmerman - ABC News

And in response to the passive-aggressive racist's FAVORITE play (not to the above quoted unless you take it personally), the "I have tons of black friends" approach, Zimmerman's token black friend is being exposed as nothing more than a slavecatcher. (videos contained)
Joe Oliver Exposed on Lawrence O'Donnell's Last Call | News One
No, it does not make one a racist to call attention to the obviousness that something is (even potentially) racially rooted. However, it lends HARD to one being racist to spout off broad-sweeping generalizations, hazy-ass pseudo-"facts" and out-of-context victim blaming to a level that I have not yet seen in my almost 33 years.


Now...
FACT: the initial attempted charge in this case was of manslaughter... Given what we KNOW - that the now-deceased had EVERY right to be in the neighborhood and NO duty to respond to the person who murdered him and that his killer defied what he was told in order to pursue him - a manslaughter charge makes sense to me at least.
OPINIONS: EVERYTHING else that has been said, up to and including the almost and overt racist shit a couple or few people have said in this thread.
FACT: Zimmerman has a past that has been hidden by his position, with a dad that is a retired judge and mother who was the clerk of that court, he has a history of aggressive behaviors that are inexplicably hidden (see above FACTS) or simply reduced to slaps on the wrist. If one believes in the "good ol boy" network, then now is the time to corroborate that.

Please separate facts from opinions when making statements, because I have made decisions that I will SPECIFICALLY refrain from EVER addressing at least 3 people who commented in this thread based upon their ability to do so.

I have been saving this for this very type of situation:Let me google that for you

[fyneyoungstunna]

Phlip id love to buy you a beer.


wolf, Imotion, and Redline....your hoods are showing....