Team Zimmerman Vs Team Martin?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by TheWolf

My question is, if we have a million people sign a petition and hold some rally's can we get anyone we want arrested?

Sounds like it. Can we start one to arrest Obama on War Crimes for murdering 16 year olds?

Both are US Citizen btw, so does that mean if you leave the US the Government can kill you for whatever reason they want?

Anwar al-Awlaki’s family speaks out against his, son’s deaths - The Washington Post

With Death of Anwar al-Awlaki, Has U.S. Launched New Era of Killing U.S. Citizens Without Charge?



I'm all for killing terrorists and what not - but this does not sit well with me. I better shut up though, who knows, next time I go to Canada they might drone me for complaining to much.

[tech_45]

you're right we should have sent more soldiers over there to potentially die for some asshole, good call.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by tech_45

you're right we should have sent more soldiers over there to potentially die for some asshole, good call.

Over where? WTF are you babbling about?

[HyperTek]

hey turds thanks for changing the topic towards a hate obama thread.

What Everyone Should Know About Trayvon Martin (1995-2012) | ThinkProgress

1. Zimmerman called the police to report Martin’s “suspicious” behavior, which he described as “just walking around looking about.” Zimmerman was in his car when he saw Martin walking on the street. He called the police and said: “There’s a real suspicious guy. This guy looks like he’s up to no good, on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about… These a**holes always get away” [Orlando Sentinel]
2. Zimmerman pursued Martin against the explicit instructions of the police dispatcher:
Dispatcher: “Are you following him?”
Zimmerman: “Yeah”
Dispatcher: “OK, we don’t need you to do that.”
[Orlando Sentinel]
3. Prior to the release of the 911 tapes, Zimmerman’s father released a statement claiming “[a]t no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin.” [Sun Sentinel]
4. Zimmerman was carrying a 9 millimeter handgun. Martin was carrying a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea. [ABC News]
5. Martin weighed 140 pounds. Zimmerman weighs 250 pounds. [Orlando Sentinel; WDBO]
6. Martin’s English teacher described him “as an A and B student who majored in cheerfulness.” [Orlando Sentinel]
7. Martin had no criminal record. [New York Times]
8. Zimmerman “was charged in July 2005 with resisting arrest with violence and battery on an officer. The charges appear to have been dropped.” [Huffington Post]
9. Zimmerman called the police 46 times since Jan. 1, 2011. [Miami Herald]
10. According to neighbors, Zimmerman was “fixated on crime and focused on young, black males.” [Miami Herald]
11. Zimmerman “had been the subject of complaints by neighbors in his gated community for aggressive tactics” [Huffington Post]
12. A police officer “corrected” a key witness. “The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.” [ABC News]
13. Three witnesses say they heard a boy cry for help before a shot was fired. “Three witnesses contacted by The Miami Herald say they saw or heard the moments before and after the Miami Gardens teenager’s killing. All three said they heard the last howl for help from a despondent boy.” [Miami Herald]
14. The officer in charge of the crime scene also received criticism in 2010 when he initially failed to arrest a lieutenant’s son who was videotaped attacking a homeless black man. [New York Times]
15. The police did not test Zimmerman for drugs or alcohol. A law enforcement expert told ABC that Zimmerman sounds intoxicated on the 911 tapes. Drug and alcohol testing is “standard procedure in most homicide investigations.” [ABC News]
16. In a cell phone call moments before his death, Martin told a teenage girl that he was “hounded by a strange man on a cellphone who ran after him, cornered him and confronted him.” “‘He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man,’ Martin’s friend said. ‘I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.’ Eventually he would run, said the girl, thinking that he’d managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin. ‘Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for,’ and the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’” [ABC News]
17. Police have Trayvon Martin’s cell phone but never contacted his girlfriend. [Miami Herald]
18. Zimmerman told the police “he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck.” “He said he feared for his life and fired the semiautomatic handgun he was licensed to carry because he feared for his life.” [Miami Herald]
19. The incident occurred in a tiny gated community Zimmerman patrolled regularly. [Miami Herald]
20. Zimmerman was not a member of a registered Neighborhood Watch group. Zimmerman also violated basic Neighborhood Watch guidelines by carrying a weapon. [ABC News]
21. The police reports were amended to bolster Zimmerman’s claim of self defense. “Initial police reports never mentioned that Zimmerman had a bloody nose or a wet shirt that showed evidence of a struggle.” [Miami Herald]
22. Police ignored witness whose account was different from Zimmerman’s.“One of the witnesses who heard the crying said she called a detective repeatedly, but said he was not interested because her account differed from Zimmerman’s.” [Miami Herald]
23. Just prior to killing Martin, Zimmerman may have used a racial slur. The police admit they initially overlooked the remark. It’s unclear exactly what Zimmerman is saying. [ABC News]
24. Zimmerman still has a permit to carry a concealed weapon in the State of Florida. [ThinkProgress]
25. In April 2011, Zimmerman called the police to report a suspicious black male, “7-9″ years old, “skinny build.” [Daily Beast]
26. Zimmerman’s friend, Frank Taaffe, says Martin was shot because he wasn’t “honest and truthful” with Zimmerman. NBC News reported that Zimmerman called Taaffe to thank him for his support. [Huffington Post; MSNBC]

Zimmerman was a nutcase, don't know why anyone would side with his thoughts.

[Highway Riding]

Originally Posted by S14DB

George Zimmerman Unprotected By Self-Defense Law in Trayvon Martin Killing, Florida Lawmakers Say

Interesting!

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by HyperTek

hey turds thanks for changing the topic towards a hate obama thread.

Zimmerman was a nutcase, don't know why anyone would side with his thoughts.

I don't think anyone has sided with Zimmerman. The question was posed should police arrest and jail you based on petitions and public opinion.

Second, the sources of your information are questionable and agenda driven.

Example: you state Zimmy called the police 11 times in 3 months - as if it shows he is bad. Ever think this shows he is just doing his "job" as the watchmen? Maybe this is why he ignored the request to break off pursuit. Maybe that's how it always goes "okay we'll look into it" and they never do, thus he now feels its up to him.

If he's had so much contact with him, and there are complaints, why are the cops not looking into this "loose cannon"?

Lastly, none of this answers what the kid was doing there in the first place. As my old man always says "nothing good happens after midnight".

[imotion s14]

And I like how the media describes these 2 individuals to paint a picture of Zimmerman being the "man" and Martin being the "boy". The picture they're trying to paint is clear, a man saw a boy as a threat. How can a "boy" be a threat? Of course no one mentions this "boy" is 6'3" and the "man" is 5'9".

He was an athlete. According to Zimmerman's account, he gave chase but gave up and was returning to the truck when he was attacked.

What's more plausible? He got cornered and had to fight back or he doubled-backed after out running his overweight pursuer to instigate an attack? He could have ran away, he obviously faster! He wanted to get even with Zimmerman and he got a Nineto the chest for his effort.

Case closed.

Oh and I like how they bring up a charge that was drop as if it means anything. Anyone whoever has a run in with a power-tripping cop will know they can trump up charges at a whim. Getting cuffed and pulling away = resisting arrest. Bumping into a cop = battery. If they had a case then why was the charges dropped?

[tricky_ab]

Perception or not when someone is shot to death a proper investigation should be carried out. The fact that the police dept. decided to drug test the dead black kid instead of the man that murdered him tells me something. The fact that the police dept. decided to run a background check on the dead black kid instead of the man that murdered him tells me more. The fact that the police don't even arrest the man tells me all I need to know.

If their ethnic background were reversed is there ANYONE in this thread that has any doubt that dude would have been locked up by that police dept. from the start? Anyone?

Trevor Dooley tried that bullshit and didn't get away without a fucking trial....funny how that works...

[HyperTek]

well people want an example made out of this,, because right now it is looking like this guy killed a black teen and got away with it by claiming his right to self defense when he picked the fight in the first place.

I like how people are saying Martin was no angel, just read he was suspended from school for being found with an empty bag of weed, still whatever actions he done as a teenager (as most teenagers do these days) does not warrant being murdered imo.

[imotion s14]

Originally Posted by tricky_ab

Perception or not when someone is shot to death a proper investigation should be carried out. The fact that the police dept. decided to drug test the dead black kid instead of the man that murdered him tells me something. The fact that the police dept. decided to run a background check on the dead black kid instead of the man that murdered him tells me more. The fact that the police don't even arrest the man tells me all I need to know.

If their ethnic background were reversed is there ANYONE in this thread that has any doubt that dude would have been locked up by that police dept. from the start? Anyone?

Trevor Dooley tried that bullshit and didn't get away without a fucking trial....funny how that works...

That dude comes to a park full of kids, brandishes a gun in broad daylight. The guy reacts to seeing a gun being pulled out for no reason. What plausible reason did he have to brandish it in the first place? Maybe if the guy had lunged at him BEFORE he brandished it then his claim of self-defense would be 100% valid. But that didn't happened. What happened is he yelled at a teenager, the victim stood up to defend him and the guy gets mad comes to a park with a gun to confront him. They have words and brandishes his weapon and the guy seeing that reacts and he shoots him for reacting?

Yeah dude. TOTALLY the same. :lol

[HyperTek]

Originally Posted by imotion s14

That dude comes to a park full of kids, brandishes a gun in broad daylight. The guy reacts to seeing a gun being pulled out for no reason. What plausible reason did he have to brandish it in the first place? Maybe if the guy had lunged at him BEFORE he brandished it then his claim of self-defense would be 100% valid. But that didn't happened. What happened is he yelled at a teenager, the victim stood up to defend him and the guy gets mad comes to a park with a gun to confront him. They have words and brandishes his weapon and the guy seeing that reacts and he shoots him for reacting?

Yeah dude. TOTALLY the same. :lol

doesn't matter, the guy claimed he shot in self defense and got arrested and trial. George Zimmerman started a conflict and shot, and got away free and there are reports of the police trying to cover it up /not investigate the situation further etc.

[imotion s14]

Originally Posted by HyperTek

well people want an example made out of this,, because right now it is looking like this guy killed a black teen and got away with it by claiming his right to self defense when he picked the fight in the first place.

I like how people are saying Martin was no angel, just read he was suspended from school for being found with an empty bag of weed, still whatever actions he done as a teenager (as most teenagers do these days) does not warrant being murdered imo.

He claimed Martin ran and he gave up.

Twin Trees Ln, Sanford, Seminole, Florida 32771

That's the alley way. No possible way for Zimmerman to "corner" Martin.

According to Zimmerman he was attacked from behind. His avenue of escape from what he rightfully perceived as a stranger following him was clear. There was no way that Zimmerman could catch him. The only plausible explanation is for whatever reason, at that point it was Martin who initiated physical contact.

He wasn't murdered. He wasn't killed because he got suspended for weed. He was killed because HE initiated force with someone who happened to be armed. Following someone isn't a crime nor does it imply hostility, or an act of aggression. Especially when you're volunteering to be neighborhood patrol.

[imotion s14]

Originally Posted by HyperTek

doesn't matter, the guy claimed he shot in self defense and got arrested and trial. George Zimmerman started a conflict and shot, and got away free and there are reports of the police trying to cover it up /not investigate the situation further etc.

Of course it doesn't matter. Details don't matter. Maybe to you but then again you're not exactly a shining beacon of logic.

He can claim anything he wants, the police determined otherwise based on eyewitness accounts.

Because brandishing a gun doesn't imply force at all.

Comparing someone who goes to a park with a gun, pulls it out first with no justified reason and then shoots the guy as he reacts to that.

Following someone = starting a conflict.

Laughable. :lol

[db_s13]

Originally Posted by imotion s14

He claimed Martin ran and he gave up.

Twin Trees Ln, Sanford, Seminole, Florida 32771

That's the alley way. No possible way for Zimmerman to "corner" Martin.

According to Zimmerman he was attacked from behind. His avenue of escape from what he rightfully perceived as a stranger following him was clear. There was no way that Zimmerman could catch him. The only plausible explanation is for whatever reason, at that point it was Martin who initiated physical contact.

He wasn't murdered. He wasn't killed because he got suspended for weed. He was killed because HE initiated force with someone who happened to be armed. Following someone isn't a crime nor does it imply hostility, or an act of aggression. Especially when you're volunteering to be neighborhood patrol.

so because zimmerman says thats what happened and he killed the only other person that truly knows what happened makes it the truth?

hypertek is going off the principle of the matter so the details dont matter... he claimed self defense but still was arrested and put on trial

and who the fuck calls the police on a 7-9 year old

[tricky_ab]

Originally Posted by imotion s14

Of course it doesn't matter. Details don't matter. Maybe to you but then again you're not exactly a shining beacon of logic.

He can claim anything he wants, the police determined otherwise based on eyewitness accounts.

Because brandishing a gun doesn't imply force at all.

Comparing someone who goes to a park with a gun, pulls it out first with no justified reason and then shoots the guy as he reacts to that.

Following someone = starting a conflict.

Laughable. :lol

He stalked martin and when martin got scared and started running, he got out of the car and went after him. It's all on the 911 tapes. If you're going to say that is not reasonable belief someone is about to use unlawful force, then I've got nothing else to say.

I guess if a woman is being chased down a dark alley by a man, she shouldn't do anything until he begins to try and rape her right?

[murda-c]

Apparently there's another witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman?

[tricky_ab]

Originally Posted by murda-c

Apparently there's another witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman?

Yeah and it was his friend...The new facts are irrelevant to the case. They are character assassination techniques used to paint the situation as anything but black and white but the fact of the matter is, it actually "is" pretty black and white this time as far as the case goes. It doesn't matter what type of character Trayvon Martin is or was, what matters is the actions that lead up to the confrontation; in that light Zimmerman got out of his car after he was explicitly told not to (By the police!) and his resulting actions lead to the death of someone who had every right to be in that neighborhood and as far as we can see was doing nothing wrong. He is guilty of minimum manslaughter charges.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by tricky_ab

He is guilty of minimum manslaughter charges.

Agreed, it's called "Observe and Report".

He should have just been writing down and even photographing what he saw. That way, if a car ends up being broken into the Cops can track down the perp with that information.

What was Zimmerman's plan, to pin the kid down, call the cops and wait for them to arrive and arrest the kid for.... wrong place, wrong time?

Sounds like Zimmerman would have been in more trouble with physically restraining someone.


Like I've said before, I think the case is simple Manslaughter, the entire situation was created by Zimmerman and could have been avoided by him. I just get disgruntled at seeing the media try and turn this into a modern lynching with petitions and accusations of "hate crimes" and "premeditated murder" as well as attacks on self-defense laws and gun ownership.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by imotion s14

He was killed because HE initiated force with someone who happened to be armed. Following someone isn't a crime nor does it imply hostility, or an act of aggression. Especially when you're volunteering to be neighborhood patrol.

Following someone can be seen as Harassment or Intimidation. You follow me to long and I'll disappear and then you'll be eating the ground.

Neighborhood watch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Neighborhood watches are not vigilante organizations. When suspecting criminal activities, members are encouraged to contact authorities and not to intervene.

That is if he wasn't volunteering for his own made up group. He was driving home from the store and saw him. Not even on "watch".

[imotion s14]

And since you keep bring up idiotic arguments in regards to the black guy who shot the white guy. Here's the letter of the law and the sub-sections that pertain to why he was arrested and tried.

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.--

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force... As used in this subsection, the term "criminal prosecution" includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

Florida is not an open-carry state. Even if it was, "carrying" and brandishing are completely different. By brandishing his weapon he committed an unlawful act since Florida is a conceal-carry state. His gun came out first.
He has no justifiable reason whatsoever to reach for his pistol first.

790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.—If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

Zimmerman/Martin; a physical altercation happened and the gun came out after the fact.

That's the difference.

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.--The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

Originally Posted by db_s13

so because zimmerman says thats what happened and he killed the only other person that truly knows what happened makes it the truth?

Stinque » New Witness is Old Witness Who Saw Part of Fight But Didn’t See Start of Fight

next??

[tricky_ab]

Stop this silly argument:

"As the prime sponsor of this legislation in the Florida House, I'd like to clarify that this law does not seem to be applicable to the tragedy that happened in Sanford. There is nothing in the castle doctrine as found in Florida statutes that authenticates or provides for the opportunity to pursue and confront individuals, it simply protects those who would be potential victims by allowing for force to be used in self-defense."

"Mr. Zimmerman's unnecessary pursuit and confrontation of Trayvon Martin elevated the prospect of a violent episode and does not seem to be an act of self-defense as defined by the castle doctrine. There is no protection in the "Stand Your Ground" law for anyone who pursues and confronts people."

- Rep. Dennis Baxley was the author of Florida's law Castle Doctrine.

You can't provoke and shoot people then claim self defense. Why is this arguable..

[imotion s14]

Originally Posted by tricky_ab

Stop this silly argument:

"As the prime sponsor of this legislation in the Florida House, I'd like to clarify that this law does not seem to be applicable to the tragedy that happened in Sanford. There is nothing in the castle doctrine as found in Florida statutes that authenticates or provides for the opportunity to pursue and confront individuals, it simply protects those who would be potential victims by allowing for force to be used in self-defense."

"Mr. Zimmerman's unnecessary pursuit and confrontation of Trayvon Martin elevated the prospect of a violent episode and does not seem to be an act of self-defense as defined by the castle doctrine. There is no protection in the "Stand Your Ground" law for anyone who pursues and confronts people."

- Rep. Dennis Baxley was the author of Florida's law Castle Doctrine.

You can't provoke and shoot people then claim self defense. Why is this arguable..

Too bad it has nothing to do with castle doctrine, the law in question is "stand your ground".

Oh and..

Meanwhile, Angela Corey, the special prosecutor assigned to the case, told ABC News that means "the state must go forward and be able to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. ... So it makes the case in general more difficult than a normal criminal case."

Basically they have nothing.

Grand Jury acquittal.

Next!

[KiLLeR2001]

What if Martin attempted to reach for Zimmerman's gun, does that change the outcome at all? :foodforthought:

[db_s13]

Originally Posted by imotion s14

And since you keep bring up idiotic arguments in regards to the black guy who shot the white guy. Here's the letter of the law and the sub-sections that pertain to why he was arrested and tried.



Florida is not an open-carry state. Even if it was, "carrying" and brandishing are completely different. By brandishing his weapon he committed an unlawful act since Florida is a conceal-carry state. His gun came out first.
He has no justifiable reason whatsoever to reach for his pistol first.



Zimmerman/Martin; a physical altercation happened and the gun came out after the fact.

That's the difference.




Stinque » New Witness is Old Witness Who Saw Part of Fight But Didn’t See Start of Fight

next??

i was talking about how the altercation started... just because he was seen "winning" the fight doesnt mean he started it

if this was your kid would you be OK with the outcome so far?

[tricky_ab]

Interesting comment from this currently front-page thread on Reddit:

Criminal defense attorney here practicing in Florida. This article is upsetting. I apologize for sounding smug but I have been following this story very carefully and it is disappointing when legal analysis is done by a non-attorney (at least I hope the author is not an attorney), especially when they are not familiar with all the laws or case law precedent in the jurisdiction since it almost always leads to the reader being misled, misinformed, or not knowing entirely everything they should know. I have been analyzing this case from its inception and have put myself in the shoes of the prosecution as to the best strategy to put Zimmerman behind bars if it gets to that point, which I hope it does.

If Zimmerman is ever charged, and a plea deal is not reached and Zimmerman proceeds to trial, he will obviously rely on self-defense. The article does a decent job of discussing this and the reasonableness standard. However, what is not discussed is that any decent Florida prosecutor will file a pre-trial motion, motion in limine, to prevent the defense from asserting self-defense during the trial. If this motion is won by the prosecution, then it will be game over for Zimmerman since his attorney will not be able to bring up self-defense to the jury throughout the entire trial and he will have zero defense.

The prosecution will site to Florida Statute § 776.041 (2012), which states that the initial aggressor is precluded from asserting self-defense where he is the individual who provoked the use of force contemporaneously to the actions of the victim to which the defendant claims self-defense. (See also Martinez v. State, 981 So. 2d 449 (Fla. 2008); Marshall v. State, 604 So. 2d 799, 803 (Fla. 1992)).

Essentially, the prosecution must convince the judge in the pre-trial motion, through testimony and evidence, that Zimmerman created the need to use self-defense, therefore, he cannot assert self-defense pursuant to Fla. Stat. § 776.041 (2012). The prosecution will point to the obvious evidence such as Trayvon was not doing anything wrong, he had only a bag of skittles and a drink on him, the 911 dispatcher told Zimmerman twice not to engage Trayvon, etc. Zimmerman created the need for the self-defense. Zimmerman had been watching Trayvon for some time while he was walking, Zimmerman approached him, Zimmerman more than likely placed his hand on him, thus creating a battery. What else would this seventeen year old kid be thinking? He was probably thinking Zimmerman wanted to hurt him or kidnap him. Zimmerman was not entitled to make a citizen’s arrest of Trayvon since Florida allows for private citizens to make a citizen’s arrest only if the person arrested has committed a felony in their presence. Phoenix v. State, 455 So. 2d 1024 (Fla. 1984). Obviously, that is not applicable here. If for some reason the judge denies this motion, then this argument can still be argued to the jury.

I have practiced out of Tallahassee, Orlando, and Tampa. This happens much too often. I am just glad this case is getting the publicity it needs to assist in ending this behavior. The behavior I am referring to is both the behavior of Zimmerman and the behavior of law enforcement.

Go Get Skittles for Your Brother, End Up Dead: The Killing of Trayvon Martin and Who's Getting Away With It and Why : politics


Anyways...

Chapter 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE - Florida Statutes

with special attention here:

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.

The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

No way he will get to claim self-defense in a trial. No way in hell. Justified use of force defense will NOT be available to him. Every reasonable means would have been:

-Not to approach him in the first place
-Don't enter into physical range if you wanted to speak to him
-Don't get out of your car
-Withdraw when the conversation got heated.
-Obey the 911 operator to NOT follow him.

[redline racer510]

I honestly think Zimmerman was trying to be a hero by trying to confront Trayvon, it got physical, Zimmerman got a ass whooping and tried to get away. Trayvon than ran after Zimmerman, Zimmerman pulled the gun out and both men started fighting over gun, gun was fired killing Trayvon, end of story. As for the police ignoring the investigation show me some proof. Law enforcement officers have a duty to report anything that they confront.

[TheWolf]

According to local "news sources" martin had zimmerman flat out on the ground and was pounding his face in. At which point zimmerman drew his pistol and shot martin. You'll never be able to prove who initiated contact. If you've got any other evidence other than a witness that "heard" someone scream for help. That sounds like textbook self defense. A girlfriend on a phone, not in the same county, isn't a stellar unbiased eye witness to anything. All zimmerman did was ask "hey, what are you doing here?" A fairly reasonable question for a kid that was new to this complex walking around at night dressed suspiciously. (To be honest, I wouldn't wear a ski mask into a bank and then claim to be profiled as a bank robber. Go around looking like a hood rat, get mistaken for one)

No one ever asks "Why didn't martin (who was obviously concerned) call the police?" Why didn't he call and say "Man there's a suspicious person following me, I need a cop out here asap". Could he have had a reason not to call the police? Why was he wearing a hoodie and jeans? It wasn't even cold enough for that. The high was 85 that day. This is florida, not chicago. It's warm in feb. Alas, the black man can make no mistakes in the eyes of blacks. If anything here, it's blacks that are being racist. Hispanics are now "white people". Black groups offering 10k bounties for the death of zimmerman or members of his family. Forming a lynchmob and demanding someones arrest when the case is anything but cut and dry and yet the cops can't be trusted because they side on the white guy every time. Sounds like 1960 all over again except from the other side. So now what? Gonna drag your dead son visage up to capitol hill to demand that they arrest someone without any eye witnesses and no hard evidence? Make it part of the "Keeping them honest" campaign. Who's "them" anyway? White america?

If we're going to assume all this stuff about zimmerman such as he aggressively hunted him because he was black because he hated blacks. (which is, legally, a long distance from a neighborhood watch guy running into a kid twice in one complex) Can we not assume some stuff about martin then. Maybe going to the store was really about buying some drugs. Maybe he tossed it in the bushes while running from zimmerman. Wouldn't be the first time and would be a great reason for not calling the police. I can't imagine watching basketball till almost midnight then going upto the store just for skittles and tea. Especially if you had to get up early for school in the morning. Oh thats right, Martin was serving a 10 day suspension for being a model "A" student in a low performing ghetto school. Ever think there might be more to this story than the keenly cookie cutter media story?

If the 17-24 black male no longer wants to be racially profiled. The 17-24 year old black male should clean up their act as a societal whole. 1.6% of the population in the state doing 60% of the violent crime in the state. It's not racist, it's statistics. Dear black america. Quit playing the race card, It's more played out than "hella flush". If you don't start nothing, there won't be nothing.

[HyperTek]

Originally Posted by KiLLeR2001

What if Martin attempted to reach for Zimmerman's gun, does that change the outcome at all? :foodforthought:

If someone pulled a gun on you at close range, you could either run and risk getting shot, or fight for your life and risk getting shot. I suppose the latter has more potential .

Whatever your guys beliefs are, i respect that.. We will find out after trail what really happened.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by TheWolf

According to local "news sources" martin had zimmerman flat out on the ground and was pounding his face in. At which point zimmerman drew his pistol and shot martin. You'll never be able to prove who initiated contact.

We can thu, Zimmerman.

Had Zimmerman listened to the police and just gone home none of this would have happened.

[db_s13]

go listen to the lawernce o'donnell interview of zimmermans lawyer who was too scared to face o'donnell and left the studio before the interview even started...
everything said in that interview could break the "case" the zimmerman team is trying to make....put that black guy in a hoody and jeans and he would be so super suspicious of a crime