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Old 11-13-2017, 02:44 PM   #1
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Ka24det Info (W/ Dyno graph)

I thought this may be useful to some folks looking to build a ka-t setup. Seems there aren't a ton of detailed posts with dyno information. I believe when done right these engines have great potential. This engine took some serious abuse this drift season(Apparently I am the 4th owner of this engine since built as well). 10/10 I would recommend anyone going the ka-t route. Anyways on to the details.

1992 ka24de

-Stock cams and valve assembly
-BC rods and BC 9:1 pistons
-Stock Intake manifold
-CX racing top mount t3/t4 manifold
-TIAL MVR Wastegate
-Precision 5431 Turbo .63AR

Drivetrain

-SPEC stage 3 6 puck sprung clutch
-ACT Lightened flywheel
-Stock driveshaft and axles
-Welded Diff

Fuel

-Walbro 255
-1000cc top feed injectors
-Aeromotive FPR

ECU/Ignition

-ECU Master EMU
-Modified trigger wheel (to delete distributor)
-CBR 600 Coils
-Haltech Igniter


This particular set-up made 326whp @14psi on a roller dyno. With very conservative AFRs. On 93 octane pump gas.

As you can see below the power fell off pretty hard at 5500 rpm. I attribute this to the turbo being slightly too small. The intake manifold could have also been restricting airflow. (Please add your thoughts below)

This was a pretty affordable route in my opinion. I will be upgrading the turbo to HX35 this winter. I'll update with a dyno chart and let you guys know what happens.





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Old 11-13-2017, 02:52 PM   #2
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Thanks for this man, I'm planning on turboing my s14 this winter as well. I'm curious to see how much hp the excessive intake mani would add.


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Old 11-13-2017, 02:56 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by oscarsx View Post
Thanks for this man, I'm planning on turboing my s14 this winter as well. I'm curious to see how much hp the excessive intake mani would add.


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You're welcome! I'd imagine it will be substantial. I had an sr20 car back in the day with a big 16g on it and the intake manifold put me from 300whp to 350whp and raised the powerband much higher into the rpms.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:59 PM   #4
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No way, good stuff man. Definitely worth the money then..


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Old 11-13-2017, 03:22 PM   #5
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Nice!

I'm waiting for someone to figure out how I made my KA push 320 on 7psi
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:24 PM   #6
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Stock KA cams suck. That's your bottleneck.
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:05 PM   #7
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Did you need to delete the distributor because it was in the way of the intake, or was it necessary to pull the build off, like would I be able to replicate the setup but keep my distributor?
And what did you do to cap off the hole for the dizzy? just a plug or did you use something else
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:15 PM   #8
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You think the stock s13 cams are bad you should see the stock s14 cams lol

Xcessive IM, bigger cams and an ATI damper and you'll be building power to redline.
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:45 PM   #9
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As other people have said, the cams are your biggest bottleneck. Removing the flapper valves in the intake manifold will give you some small gains across the board as well. Xcessive manifold with velocity stacks next. Going to something with a bigger turbine might be a good idea, but not a necessity.

These engines are underrated because nobody builds them. Everyone wants to cheap out and do a KA-T on stock internals, then wonders why they die or don't make good power. Good luck with your setup!
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:56 PM   #10
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It's the cam
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:05 PM   #11
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What cams do everyone recommend for a build like this, or even overall?


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Old 11-13-2017, 06:10 PM   #12
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interesting, my ka-t is very similar but I'm having small issues such as stalling under deceleration, what did you do with the butterfly valves and swirl control?
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Old 11-15-2017, 01:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatch4life View Post
interesting, my ka-t is very similar but I'm having small issues such as stalling under deceleration, what did you do with the butterfly valves and swirl control?
I would imagine that is tune related. Are you running an IAC? I'm running an IAC and I adjusted the throttle plate a little and I haven't had any issues with it catching idle under deceleration. I am not running the butterfly valves.
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Old 11-15-2017, 01:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyral View Post
Did you need to delete the distributor because it was in the way of the intake, or was it necessary to pull the build off, like would I be able to replicate the setup but keep my distributor?
And what did you do to cap off the hole for the dizzy? just a plug or did you use something else
You can absolutely replicate a similar set-up using the distributor. I went coil on plug mostly for aesthetics. After changing the trigger wheel I did nothing else. Used the standalone to basically turn the distributor into a crank angle sensor like an sr20. They make a nice alumn cap for it I have just been cheap/lazy and haven't bought one.
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Old 11-19-2017, 07:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
I would imagine that is tune related. Are you running an IAC? I'm running an IAC and I adjusted the throttle plate a little and I haven't had any issues with it catching idle under deceleration. I am not running the butterfly valves.
I thought it was tune at first but tuner insists it is IACV (they've been iffy from the beginning so idk) but I can't imagine it is because i already got a new one not too long ago

now im just looking for anything that could be a culprit really, sick build BTW, wish i went standalone so I could use coil on plug
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:44 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatch4life View Post
I thought it was tune at first but tuner insists it is IACV (they've been iffy from the beginning so idk) but I can't imagine it is because i already got a new one not too long ago



now im just looking for anything that could be a culprit really, sick build BTW, wish i went standalone so I could use coil on plug
I deleted my swirl valves and removed the butterfly assemblies from the manifold. I too get the stall on decel If im not careful. I've been logging and reading and it looks like the artifact of not having a recirc blow off valve. I don't run one at all. No real good fix to this except a recirc your BOV to after the MAF. Great build in this thread its a good read.

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Old 11-20-2017, 03:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
not having a recirc blow off valve
Is there a reason you're not using a BOV?

Mine is recirculated to my vacuum block, but I have tried moving it to other places including by throttle body, but no dice
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Old 12-11-2017, 07:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnnEssEnnKAT View Post
I deleted my swirl valves and removed the butterfly assemblies from the manifold. I too get the stall on decel If im not careful. I've been logging and reading and it looks like the artifact of not having a recirc blow off valve. I don't run one at all. No real good fix to this except a recirc your BOV to after the MAF. Great build in this thread its a good read.

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I think this is related to tune/ecu quality. I am running no swirl and a BOV to atmosphere and have zero issues with idle catching. Maybe I got lucky?
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Old 12-11-2017, 08:03 PM   #19
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Good advice here, cam and damper. Biggest problem is assembling the engine properly and cleanly.

IMO list:
-clean up wiring, use heat-shrink and soldier/torch to make all new connections
-no 90* bends in intercooler plumbing
-Turbo Blanket
-mount regulator so it looks clean, snake a proper line so you don't see it.
-get rid of cheap filter on valvecover and connect that valvecover port to the pre-turbo intake tube.
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Old 12-11-2017, 08:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I think this is related to tune/ecu quality. I am running no swirl and a BOV to atmosphere and have zero issues with idle catching. Maybe I got lucky?
Could be, there's prob a difference between atmosphere bov versus no bov at all. After letting off the turbos still spooling and pushing air. I'm sure a good tuner could do a decent job at removing any crappy decel problems like stalling. Wish i knew how to tune something like that out, might need to fool with the iac sensitivity or idle speed.

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Old 12-12-2017, 05:50 PM   #21
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Your power fell off because of the cams.
You need another 100whp at least before you worry about the intake manifold. Don't change the intake before that point, unless its for serviceability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hatch4life View Post
interesting, my ka-t is very similar but I'm having small issues such as stalling under deceleration, what did you do with the butterfly valves and swirl control?
Your problem is VTA bov
Using a bov with a smaller valve or push/pull type like HKS will help prevent this when VTA. Or raising base idle via iacv.
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:38 AM   #22
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here is the deal with stalling due to atmospheric bypass

1. first thing i do is make sure its actually the bypass. block it with some tape and a sock or something and make sure the stalling symptoms disappear.

2. If it still stalls with a blocked bypass, do a boost leak test.

3. if the boost leak test reveals no leaks, and the bypass is blocked but the engine stalls, there is a high chance the problem is the MAF SENSOR PLACEMENT. It is either too close to the turbo, or does not have the required bends. The compressor wheel on a non-bypass car ( when the bypass is shut at or near idle speeds) can surge silently (where you can't even hear it near idle) and this causes air to buffet the maf hotwire. Factory bypass valves hang open at idle to prevent this. You can alleviate (confirm diagnosis) this symptom by creating a boost leak down stream somewhere (pull a vacuum line off the intercooler plumbing, BEFORE the engine, so the compressor-airflow leaks). Air will leak out, preventing the compressor from surging and the engine from stalling as long as the leak is not large enough to run the engine too rich.

4. If the bypass is confirmed leaking-causing the stall, you have two options. First one is recirculate it, easy and cheap highly recommended.

Second option is to wire in a SAFC. They have a feature that will allow you cut fuel under circumstances to prevent stalling due to open atmosphere bypass.


Note
It is worth mentioning the factory computer (and PFC units) have a fuel cut for when throttle position is going to zero, which under normal circumstances (during shifts) cuts fuel just fine between gears, keeping the engine from running rich and stalling. It is only at low rpms (below fuel cut RPM allowable) that the factory computer can't cut fuel and that is where stalling typically persists. The SAFC function I mentioned simply extends this fuel cut to below the factory's set limit.
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Old 12-14-2017, 03:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingtal0n View Post
here is the deal with stalling due to atmospheric bypass

1. first thing i do is make sure its actually the bypass. block it with some tape and a sock or something and make sure the stalling symptoms disappear.

2. If it still stalls with a blocked bypass, do a boost leak test.

3. if the boost leak test reveals no leaks, and the bypass is blocked but the engine stalls, there is a high chance the problem is the MAF SENSOR PLACEMENT. It is either too close to the turbo, or does not have the required bends. The compressor wheel on a non-bypass car ( when the bypass is shut at or near idle speeds) can surge silently (where you can't even hear it near idle) and this causes air to buffet the maf hotwire. Factory bypass valves hang open at idle to prevent this. You can alleviate (confirm diagnosis) this symptom by creating a boost leak down stream somewhere (pull a vacuum line off the intercooler plumbing, BEFORE the engine, so the compressor-airflow leaks). Air will leak out, preventing the compressor from surging and the engine from stalling as long as the leak is not large enough to run the engine too rich.

4. If the bypass is confirmed leaking-causing the stall, you have two options. First one is recirculate it, easy and cheap highly recommended.

Second option is to wire in a SAFC. They have a feature that will allow you cut fuel under circumstances to prevent stalling due to open atmosphere bypass.


Note
It is worth mentioning the factory computer (and PFC units) have a fuel cut for when throttle position is going to zero, which under normal circumstances (during shifts) cuts fuel just fine between gears, keeping the engine from running rich and stalling. It is only at low rpms (below fuel cut RPM allowable) that the factory computer can't cut fuel and that is where stalling typically persists. The SAFC function I mentioned simply extends this fuel cut to below the factory's set limit.
Is there a way to do this in Nistune? I'd love to hear about it. Maybe reduce the fuel cut RPMs down or something? I don't get it 100%, thanks!
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscarsx View Post
What cams do everyone recommend for a build like this, or even overall?


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I'd love to see some Kelford 256/264 or Tomei 270 dyno's, they've both been out for sometime, but like the OP said, not many detailed builds are posted with dyno sheets.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:37 PM   #25
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Ka-t

Hey guys here's my ka-t

mild port
wiesco 9:1
eagle rods
bc 272s standard valves dual springs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI4vMm6kHFY

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