Best delivery driver engine for the s13 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Spectre420 · 03-27-2015, 12:16 AM

So I have a 91 s13 hatchback and I am a delivery driver for my primary income at the moment. This car is also going to be my daily driver.

The time has come for my KA. Its burning oil more and more by the day and losing power quickly. I had seached and figured the best plan was to rebuild the ka but now I have the money and am doing the final research before I pull the trigger and I see ALOT of sr20det's getting good mpgs (like 30 around town =O) at 260+- HP and it makes me second guess my plans cuz 260>200-225 ima end up with. So I figured I would post about what I think and ask how everyone feels.

So heres my logic,

They get their really good MPGs by staying out of boost (People say this) n thus driving slowly (I dont like)
Also, they dont make much grunt outa boost cuz of 8.5:1 2L motor and dont get into boost till after I have shifted most of the time so the power is unusable (I dont like)

Being a DD and a delivery vehicle, I want a few things:
Reliability
MPGs
Usable/streetable power

I was planning on rebuilding the ka because I already have it and a L/W flywheel for it and it would make the motor run like new for a LONG time to come.
I plan on 11.1:1 sohc pistons
248/248 stock cams
I(with e60 maf)/H(4-2-1 equal length)/E(3")
valve job
polished head
crank/windage scraper
L/w pulleys
PS/AC delete
Tune the factory automatic ECU (the car is 5-speed, NOT auto)
Upgraded alternator for less drag
LW fly/driveshaft/wheels
high flow cat and resonators
I was thinking being high compression NA with such a long stroke and 2.4L, the KA would be ALOT more powerful off the line and in the low rpms of suburban streets. Also, because most of the power gains are efficiency baced and the high torque at low rpms the engine would stay in peak torque range more and be under less load thus get greater mpg's than an sr20 =) while being a very nice street motor with the power being usable every day every stoplight and FAR outlasting an un-rebuilt sr20.

Sorry that this is so long but does this sound logical to you?
Better yet, do you think it will work like that?

chiboy002 · 03-27-2015, 12:23 AM

rebuild the ka or a stock power SR, but going SR you'll have more money invested. I'd rebuild a swapped motor just to be safe, mileage numbers are never accurate

my ka has 255k miles and i took it apart for a low psi oil pump, everything is still in good condition (bearings, cylinder walls, clearances, etc) and i did not drive it lightly. KAs are very stout.

5280VertDET · 03-27-2015, 09:13 AM

SRs are getting old. Buy a rebuilt SR, rebuild an SR or Stay KA. I would stay KA with your requirements.

Don't forget to add several hundred dollars for wear and tear items if you are going to be DDing a 25 year old car.

Bang for the buck is to rebuild your KA24DE

simmode1 · 03-27-2015, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5280VertDET

SRs are getting old. Buy a rebuilt SR, rebuild an SR or Stay KA. I would stay KA with your requirements.

Don't forget to add several hundred dollars for wear and tear items if you are going to be DDing a 25 year old car.

Bang for the buck is to rebuild your KA24DE

Completely agreed. Can't believe we're even having this conversation. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Z_Spool · 03-27-2015, 12:16 PM

Yeah, rebuilding what you already have is the best bet. If you get an SR it will most likely need a rebuild soon/immediately anyway so no need to spend the cash there just yet especially if you've already put money into the KA. I wouldn't go too crazy with the rebuild though as the more modifying you do to the KA, the more you run the risk of it not only being less economical, but also less reliable.

That said, yes, SR's are plenty reliable in stock form, and can get pretty good mileage. Everyone seems to think of them as some sort of underground performance engine as they're often marketed as such, but that's simply not the case. They're just another factory offering from Nissan and are no more a "racing engine' than a 1.8t is in a Jetta. Mine was getting about 25.5mpg last summer with getting on light boost every so often. Don't think that you can drive an SR without occasionally getting on boost though as these little engines are dog slow without it. But even still you can get decent mileage when only boosting a bit during passing, on ramps etc.

Bushido · 03-27-2015, 01:17 PM

stock rebuild using factory parts. don't get fancy.

Kuma · 03-27-2015, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushido

stock rebuild using factory parts. don't get fancy.

this. It's one thing when you just need the car to get to and from work. with a little luck you can sort out your repairs on your days off... but when you need your car for work, it becomes a whole new ball game.

dbeiler · 03-27-2015, 05:54 PM

You'll want a Gallo 24

Spectre420 · 03-27-2015, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbeiler

You'll want a Gallo 24

But the 12 gets better MPGs!!!!

All this is great stuff and its nice to have others agree with my decision. This is a big spend for me and I was kinda uncertain for a moment.
Thank you.

@Simmode1, i know i cant believe it either. I just read those posts about the sr and started to second guess myself.
@5280VertDET, I am aware. Pretty much every part in this car that isnt the chasis or interior will be replaced before it sees service as a DD

Im gonna pull the trigger on the KA!

So now the question is, where in virginia do I take my KA for machine work?

Hoffman5982 · 03-27-2015, 10:03 PM

If 200-225 is your goal, you're going to be disappointed. I really don't see you achieving that without dumping an extensive amount of money into it. As for 30mpg on an SR, I've gotten 32mpg at best on the highway and 25mpg at best in the city.

I'm also in the process of building a high comp KA. Only recommendation I have is to not do the 248/248 cam swap. You lose a lot of low end power. I just did the 248/232 swap and cannot stress how great it is. The car has a very noticeable bump in power starting at 2.5k rpm and pulls all the way up to redline. At 5k it feels like it opens even more. I notched the cam gear to get the intake came 3.5 teeth ccw.

Also, how will you be modifying the alternator?

Kuma · 03-27-2015, 11:08 PM

I also just noticed ps/ac delete. if it works, don't delete it.

robinsone · 03-28-2015, 02:38 PM

I plan on 11.1:1 sohc pistons

If you're going with aftermarket pistons you might as well swap out the rods and bearings as well. Decreasing the rotational mass of any of the internals will help mpg if that's your intent. Also balancing and polishing the crankshaft can't hurt either. Also, look at gapless rings too, to give compression a slight boost. You want to increase compression as high as possible with the best available gas.

There are bearings out there with certain coatings as well, but of course whatever your budget maybe, that can be a limiting factor. You could also choose a thinner headgasket lending to increasing compression. You could also coat the pistons as well which can reduce heat sink to them. Maybe high temp spark plugs as well.

248/248 stock cams

If youre going to be boosting compression do not get a race cam, keep it stock or slightly above stock, perhaps a little more lift if anything, but nothing crazy.

I(with e60 maf)/H(4-2-1 equal length)/E(3")

The intake setup seems fine but mind you no cars really suffer from intake issues unless you are at WOT. The greatest gains short term and inexpensive including MPGs could be had with a decent set of headers. In fact the larger diameter exhaust you are comfortable with, it is surprising how much opening the exhaust can do for performance and mpgs

valve job

Have you thought about just getting newer improved valves, look at the cost benefit. Newer valves also come with coatings to prevent heat sink and would allow for higher compression with the higher octane available.

polished head

This will help, intake, exhaust polishing but don't neglect the combustion chamber, if you're increasing compression do this to prevent pre-ignition

crank/windage scraper

This will do nothing for you at all. Unless you're revving the engine in excess of 8k rpm or something. You'd be better of knife-edging the crank to reduce rotational weight, any oil that is scraped off won't really do a damn thing for you unless you're building a dragster etc.

L/w pulleys

Do this, but you also better be getting rid of the fan & fan clutch. Install an electric fan and/or get a 2 or 3 row radiator to offset the loss of the fan/clutch. Losing any rotational mass or accessories will be beneficial.

PS/AC delete

Don't delete the PS. Go drive a car with no PS for a week and then think about it. Unless you have massive forearms, it can be a PIA

Tune the factory automatic ECU (the car is 5-speed, NOT auto)

Sure this works

Upgraded alternator for less drag

I wouldn't mess with the alternator, add the pulleys, delete fan/clutch, and electric fan and go from there, nothing really gained here

LW fly/driveshaft/wheels

Well if you're lightening everything and you drive an auto you may have driveability issues. Guys that have lightened everything on a manual have complained about clutch engaging/disengaging issues, but maybe if its an auto you might be ok. Wheels are perfect, but you better get some 15" or 16" wheels then. Nothing bigger. I see so many people getting 17, 18, 19" wheels, I assume to fit bigger brakes, but actually weigh more than or equivalent to stock. Real big gains can be had from lightweight wheels, I'm talking 11-12lbs each here, as well as low resistance tires.

high flow cat and resonators

This will help but get some headers and then add on to that

I was thinking being high compression NA with such a long stroke and 2.4L, the KA would be ALOT more powerful off the line and in the low rpms of suburban streets.

The only benefit of going SR or CA in this instance is the weight loss. SR and CA motors weigh less than the KA, something like just over 100 lbs i think.

To that note, think aluminum. Rear knuckles, F&R calipers from a z32. Front knuckles from GK tech. The z32 TT had an aluminum 5 lug spare, alternatively the older mustangs had a 4 lug aluminum spare that should fit an s13. Some coilovers might be lighter than stock suspension. Also a helical diff will certainly improve mpgs. Fluids. all synthetic, I love Mobile 0-40w for the KA, go as thin as you can for the transmission and diff.

For the engine if you want to get crazy, coat the coolant channels for better heat transfer. Removing excess heat from the block is beneficial certainly when you're running high compression like that, it could also reduce your cooling system size as well. You could try and go electric water pump or PS pump, but then you'd have to upgrade the alternator lol.

Look into a good air/oil separator not just a generic catch can. You want to run very clean air through to get the most out of engine efficiency. Phenolic spacer to reduce intake temp, in fact an aftermarket intake couldn't hurt but one that will maximize flow, less restriction is optimal here. Polish the throttle body too, that's typically the greatest point of restriction in an intake and polishing this will help, at least for a DD trying to improve mpgs, not much for track cars.

A lot of people might tell you to lose your emission stuff, easier to keep it and not deal with any problems later on. Also, maybe look into the GM ignition coil upgrade, better wires and plugs. The larger and stronger the spark the better off you'll be.

So anything that will lighten the rotating mass engine etc, reduce restriction of flow or moving parts should be considered, depending on budget and time.
Some people get nuts with mileage gains.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...ifications.php

A lot of things things will net you maybe 1-2mpg per mod, if that. So typically doing a number of these things in concert will reap the best gains.

Hoffman5982 · 03-28-2015, 07:52 PM

You people saying don't delete the ps have never driven a properly depowered rack. I love mine, and have no problem switching between my s13 with manual steering and s14 with ps. at a dead stop is the only time it's hard to turn, but if you ease forward just a hair has you're turning you can do so with one arm. You guys probably drove a rack with looped lines or one that just had the power steering unhooked and now think you know everything about manual steering. I can throw my car as hard as I want and have no problem driving it all around town every day of the week.

Spectre420 · 03-29-2015, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuma

I also just noticed ps/ac delete. if it works, don't delete it.

Umm... thats why I am deleting it...
less drag = more HP and MPG.
Besides, P/S SUCKS!!!!! and will get you in a wreck driving on the edge

Spectre420 · 03-29-2015, 01:45 AM

If you're going with aftermarket pistons you might as well swap out the rods and bearings as well. Decreasing the rotational mass of any of the internals will help mpg if that's your intent. Also balancing and polishing the crankshaft can't hurt either. Also, look at gapless rings too, to give compression a slight boost. You want to increase compression as high as possible with the best available gas.

Stock pistons for ka24e. Not aftermarket.
Dont have the money for rods.
Bearings already being done.
I am doing the crank balance n polishing already.
Gapless rings don't help anywhere other than the leak down test. Its impossible to force any noticeable portion the great lakes outa a 2ft pipe 3000 times a sec. Same concept in a piston with a ring gap and air fluid physics. Also they wear out your cylinders faster NOT ideal for a DD.

If youre going to be boosting compression do not get a race cam, keep it stock or slightly above stock, perhaps a little more lift if anything, but nothing crazy.

dual 248 cams are stock cams. The engine just never came like that from the factory.

The intake setup seems fine but mind you no cars really suffer from intake issues unless you are at WOT. The greatest gains short term and inexpensive including MPGs could be had with a decent set of headers. In fact the larger diameter exhaust you are comfortable with, it is surprising how much opening the exhaust can do for performance and mpgs

Getting xsessive headers with a 3" exhaust

Have you thought about just getting newer improved valves, look at the cost benefit. Newer valves also come with coatings to prevent heat sink and would allow for higher compression with the higher octane available.

Yeup. Doin that too. I wont reuse exhaust valves evar!

This will help, intake, exhaust polishing but don't neglect the combustion chamber, if you're increasing compression do this to prevent pre-ignition

Good info
didnt know you could do that for gains

crank/windage scraper
This will do nothing for you at all. Unless you're revving the engine in excess of 8k rpm or something. You'd be better of knife-edging the crank to reduce rotational weight, any oil that is scraped off won't really do a damn thing for you unless you're building a dragster etc.

10ish hp and some tq/throttle response is something is it not? Besides, the improved oiling and cooling and more oil in the sump is worth it with our engines being oil starved above 3k rpm without a higher flowing filter anyway.

Don't delete the PS. Go drive a car with no PS for a week and then think about it. Unless you have massive forearms, it can be a PIA

Are you kidding? I already did and it was the best decision EVER!
A PROPERLY depowered rack is a joy to drive. Especially with a lightened car!
Fuuuuck power steering!

Upgraded alternator for less drag

I wouldn't mess with the alternator, add the pulleys, delete fan/clutch, and electric fan and go from there, nothing really gained here

But the stock alt sucks!
It can barely even drive the car!
Whats delivering all day without a killer system?

Well if you're lightening everything and you drive an auto you may have driveability issues. Guys that have lightened everything on a manual have complained about clutch engaging/disengaging issues, but maybe if its an auto you might be ok. Wheels are perfect, but you better get some 15" or 16" wheels then. Nothing bigger. I see so many people getting 17, 18, 19" wheels, I assume to fit bigger brakes, but actually weigh more than or equivalent to stock. Real big gains can be had from lightweight wheels, I'm talking 11-12lbs each here, as well as low resistance tires.

I specified its NOT an auto. auto is lame!!! I use the auto ecu because the tune is better on it and the rev limit is 7200rpm.
I have lightened everything on the manual. 9lb flywheel, 10lb driveshaft, 17lb wheels, lightweight drilled and slotted 300zx rotors, the drivability is just fine.
The people who complain need to get better at using a clutch in my opinion.

I like 17 inch wheels. they look great. handle great. fit my 300zx brakes, and still dont weigh a ton doing it. You cant talk me outa those.
LRR tires are way to unsafe for me. The way people drive around here, I need to be able to stop on a dime and corner hard to avoid crashes sometimes.

high flow cat and resonators
This will help but get some headers and then add on to that

I listed i was getting 4-2-1 equal length ceramic coated headers.

Alot of people might tell you to lose your emission stuff, easier to keep it and not deal with any problems later on. Also, maybe look into the GM ignition coil upgrade, better wires and plugs. The larger and stronger the spark the better off you'll be.

emissions are already gone for weight power and compatibility reasons
Planned on MSD ignition but I will look into the GM
already have NGK LR wires

Kuma · 03-29-2015, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectre420

Umm... thats why I am deleting it...
less drag = more HP and MPG.
Besides, P/S SUCKS!!!!! and will get you in a wreck driving on the edge

lol I didn't realize you were planning on driving the car you rely on for income "on the edge."

carry on.

Have fun sitting in traffic delivering pizzas or whatever this summer with no ac or ps.

simmode1 · 03-29-2015, 10:45 AM

I've done the N/A KA build thing. WASTE OF TIME.

Between the 248/248 cam swap versus 248/232, I liked 248/232 best, it had better mid range response. Had I/H/E with advanced timing and a tune. Felt peppy in comparison to stock, but it reality, its just changing your powerband around, not making any real power. It was a waste of time to me because it was still slower than nearly anything else on the road except old Civics & old V6 Mustangs. Again... WASTE OF TIME & LOUD FOR NO REASON.

I'd encourage you to save your time, money & effort. Overhaul engine to stock specs. It'll be reliable as hell while still being capable of a fun time. Save up for a truck to daily, then either turbo that KA or swap a real engine in.

Just my opinion. Seriously. Go test drive something with 300hp+, like a BMW 135i or something. You'll see how pointless it is trying to extract N/A power from the KA.

Kingtal0n · 03-29-2015, 10:49 AM

lol at that list. NO.

You buy a stock automatic 97-98 KA24DE with 98,000 Miles from someone who is doing a swap for $400, and drive it for 10 years reliably like that.

A stock KA engine halfway through it's service life is as good as it gets for these cars.

Fuego · 03-29-2015, 12:25 PM

WTF is going on here?

Option A: Put LS1 with a T56 in the car.

Option B: Buy a Honda.

krampus · 03-29-2015, 02:18 PM

You won't want to use any car you like for delivery driving. It's a losing battle no matter how you slice it.

Bushido · 03-29-2015, 07:48 PM

I bet that a stock LS1 would probably get better fuel economy than a hi-compression KA. LOL.

soundboy · 03-30-2015, 08:21 AM

buy a honda hatch and daily that.

10psitx · 03-30-2015, 09:40 AM

OP your question while valid is also pointless in your particular situation....you are using your car as a source of income, meaning...modding any car brings with it some issues, no matter how insignificant it will impact your ability to consistenly bring in money....

If you how ever ....if you choose to refresh the KA , do a stock rebuild and keep it simple...Thats the very short answer....if no one ever made you aware it requires more fuel to make more power so MPG will suffer.

If you really want to be sensible and make money doing deliveries then forget the 240 and get a more fuel efficient car....eg a 1991 B13 sentra 1.6 5 speed...it returns 40 mpg highway with A/C and powersteering!! and 35/37 intown again with a/c and powersteering...this car will practically pay you to drive it...there are possibly more fuel efficient cars but thats is my personal experience.

TO put this into prespective, i currently own alot of other cars including 240's, a skyline and a few chevy's, and a toyota...need less to say the sentra is by far the most fuel efficient car i drive, it does have suspension mods which makes it quite fun to drive in the twisties......anyway just my 2cents.

ILoveMyRHS13 · 03-30-2015, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectre420

Besides, P/S SUCKS!!!!! and will get you in a wreck driving on the edge

I'm just going to remind everyone that this was said.

omgosh · 03-30-2015, 11:39 AM

SR20DE or used KA

Racecar drivers use powersteering

zurud · 03-31-2015, 02:01 PM

sell your car and get 90s civic

Spectre420 · 04-02-2015, 02:21 PM

I just realized I neglected to mention the fact that this car will be beat on regularly when not on the job and see a track 2-3 times a year.
It also is not the end of the world if its down for a day or 3 for repairs as I can work anyway.

I want a car that is both reliable/efficient while being fun. I have 5k to overhaul this car and my fully built engine will run about 2650 leaving 2400 for suspension/driveline/chassis. I am 6'8 and the 240sx with down/back seat rails fits me great and I love everything about the car.
The sentra is a good car yes (except its wrong wheel drive) and I already considered the 2 car route. I just cant afford that right now being 19 my insurance would eat me up. I somehow got the insurance on the 240 for 40$/month and as long as I don't swap nor turbo it, it stays that way.
I also don't mind sitting in 95 degree weather with the windows down and no AC so factor that in.
I have had the privilege of driving several professional race cars and not one I have drove used either power steering or a steering wheel nearly as big as the 240s and I could turn them easily as I can the 240 once I am anything faster than 2-3mph
Also I am a weight reduction junkie and dont want a v8 regardless. I dont like working on them, looking at them, maintaining them, listening to them, etc. I like i4/i6 engines best for many reasons. Sure the ls1 gets good highway MPGs but I fail to see how it out does the KA around town.

Several people say to rebuild it stock for reliability and that's fair n all but why would this engine I want to build be un-reliable? I Need it to last me 125-150k tops and the RPM wont be higher than stock. It wont be making any crazy large power numbers. It wont be using anything fancy and complex prone to failure.

I think this build will work for what I need.
Am I smoking crack here? If so, explain please.

Dboyizmlg · 04-02-2015, 02:27 PM

Ls1, LS1, Ls1, LS1, !!!

No rebuild, no bogus stuff, done and done!!!

Also, I'm not a fan of the Ls series motors in s-chassis, but screw rebuilding!

simmode1 · 04-02-2015, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectre420

I want a car that is both reliable/efficient while being fun. I have 5k to overhaul this car and my fully built engine will run about 2650 leaving 2400 for suspension/driveline/chassis.

You have a $5k budget that you're hoping to split between an engine swap & pretty much the rest of the car. And you want it to be reliable. Bro, sell you car & get an early Z33. The 240 will nickel & dime that budget to death.

Spectre420 · 04-03-2015, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simmode1

You have a $5k budget that you're hoping to split between an engine swap & pretty much the rest of the car. And you want it to be reliable. Bro, sell you car & get an early Z33. The 240 will nickel & dime that budget to death.

But that car is even more expensive!
Between maintenance, gas, and insurance, that car will quarter n dollar me not nickel n dime.

The transmission, clutch/flywheel, brakes/lines/mc overhaul/refresh is done already. I need 13-1500$ to totally overhaul/refresh the front and rear suspension and 300$ for miscellaneous stuff. Leaving 450$ for some new rubber n 1-350$ of unaccounted expense money

Again, I feel like somehow I'm smoking crack from what you guys say but at the same time I have a detailed list of every single replaceable Mechanical part i can think of and machine shop labor costs for the rebuild and it comes out to less than 5k. If I have done EVERYTHING (engine/cooling/trans/driveline/diff/suspension/mounts/subframes/bushings/bracing/brakes/steering/electrical) where would this car be unreliable assuming all parts are quality? (and they are)
What am I missing about this car that will decimate my finances?

03-27-2015, 12:16 AM	#1
Spectre420 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Virginia Posts: 30 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Best delivery driver engine for the s13 So I have a 91 s13 hatchback and I am a delivery driver for my primary income at the moment. This car is also going to be my daily driver. The time has come for my KA. Its burning oil more and more by the day and losing power quickly. I had seached and figured the best plan was to rebuild the ka but now I have the money and am doing the final research before I pull the trigger and I see ALOT of sr20det's getting good mpgs (like 30 around town =O) at 260+- HP and it makes me second guess my plans cuz 260>200-225 ima end up with. So I figured I would post about what I think and ask how everyone feels. So heres my logic, They get their really good MPGs by staying out of boost (People say this) n thus driving slowly (I dont like) Also, they dont make much grunt outa boost cuz of 8.5:1 2L motor and dont get into boost till after I have shifted most of the time so the power is unusable (I dont like) Being a DD and a delivery vehicle, I want a few things: Reliability MPGs Usable/streetable power I was planning on rebuilding the ka because I already have it and a L/W flywheel for it and it would make the motor run like new for a LONG time to come. I plan on 11.1:1 sohc pistons 248/248 stock cams I(with e60 maf)/H(4-2-1 equal length)/E(3") valve job polished head crank/windage scraper L/w pulleys PS/AC delete Tune the factory automatic ECU (the car is 5-speed, NOT auto) Upgraded alternator for less drag LW fly/driveshaft/wheels high flow cat and resonators I was thinking being high compression NA with such a long stroke and 2.4L, the KA would be ALOT more powerful off the line and in the low rpms of suburban streets. Also, because most of the power gains are efficiency baced and the high torque at low rpms the engine would stay in peak torque range more and be under less load thus get greater mpg's than an sr20 =) while being a very nice street motor with the power being usable every day every stoplight and FAR outlasting an un-rebuilt sr20. Sorry that this is so long but does this sound logical to you? Better yet, do you think it will work like that?

03-27-2015, 12:23 AM	#2
chiboy002 Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: ◙ Posts: 4,425 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	rebuild the ka or a stock power SR, but going SR you'll have more money invested. I'd rebuild a swapped motor just to be safe, mileage numbers are never accurate my ka has 255k miles and i took it apart for a low psi oil pump, everything is still in good condition (bearings, cylinder walls, clearances, etc) and i did not drive it lightly. KAs are very stout. __________________ street dancer. GLEAM

03-27-2015, 09:13 AM	#3
5280VertDET Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Denver Age: 40 Posts: 2,052 Trader Rating: (14) Feedback Score: 14 reviews	SRs are getting old. Buy a rebuilt SR, rebuild an SR or Stay KA. I would stay KA with your requirements. Don't forget to add several hundred dollars for wear and tear items if you are going to be DDing a 25 year old car. Bang for the buck is to rebuild your KA24DE __________________ S13 Vert \| SR \| PE1420 \| 5-Speed \| 15x9.5 - 0 \|

03-27-2015, 01:17 PM	#6
Bushido Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: SFL Posts: 3,563 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	stock rebuild using factory parts. don't get fancy. __________________

03-27-2015, 10:03 PM	#10
Hoffman5982 Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Definitely NOT FL.... Age: 32 Posts: 2,504 Trader Rating: (25) Feedback Score: 25 reviews	If 200-225 is your goal, you're going to be disappointed. I really don't see you achieving that without dumping an extensive amount of money into it. As for 30mpg on an SR, I've gotten 32mpg at best on the highway and 25mpg at best in the city. I'm also in the process of building a high comp KA. Only recommendation I have is to not do the 248/248 cam swap. You lose a lot of low end power. I just did the 248/232 swap and cannot stress how great it is. The car has a very noticeable bump in power starting at 2.5k rpm and pulls all the way up to redline. At 5k it feels like it opens even more. I notched the cam gear to get the intake came 3.5 teeth ccw. Also, how will you be modifying the alternator? __________________

03-27-2015, 12:16 PM	#5
Z_Spool Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO Age: 38 Posts: 1,507 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Yeah, rebuilding what you already have is the best bet. If you get an SR it will most likely need a rebuild soon/immediately anyway so no need to spend the cash there just yet especially if you've already put money into the KA. I wouldn't go too crazy with the rebuild though as the more modifying you do to the KA, the more you run the risk of it not only being less economical, but also less reliable. That said, yes, SR's are plenty reliable in stock form, and can get pretty good mileage. Everyone seems to think of them as some sort of underground performance engine as they're often marketed as such, but that's simply not the case. They're just another factory offering from Nissan and are no more a "racing engine' than a 1.8t is in a Jetta. Mine was getting about 25.5mpg last summer with getting on light boost every so often. Don't think that you can drive an SR without occasionally getting on boost though as these little engines are dog slow without it. But even still you can get decent mileage when only boosting a bit during passing, on ramps etc.

03-27-2015, 05:54 PM	#8
dbeiler Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Lancaster county, PA Age: 33 Posts: 465 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	You'll want a Gallo 24

03-27-2015, 11:08 PM	#11
Kuma Zilvia Addict Join Date: May 2012 Location: The last house on the right Age: 38 Posts: 758 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I also just noticed ps/ac delete. if it works, don't delete it.

03-28-2015, 02:38 PM	#12
robinsone Leaky Injector Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Age: 44 Posts: 129 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	I plan on 11.1:1 sohc pistons If you're going with aftermarket pistons you might as well swap out the rods and bearings as well. Decreasing the rotational mass of any of the internals will help mpg if that's your intent. Also balancing and polishing the crankshaft can't hurt either. Also, look at gapless rings too, to give compression a slight boost. You want to increase compression as high as possible with the best available gas. There are bearings out there with certain coatings as well, but of course whatever your budget maybe, that can be a limiting factor. You could also choose a thinner headgasket lending to increasing compression. You could also coat the pistons as well which can reduce heat sink to them. Maybe high temp spark plugs as well. 248/248 stock cams If youre going to be boosting compression do not get a race cam, keep it stock or slightly above stock, perhaps a little more lift if anything, but nothing crazy. I(with e60 maf)/H(4-2-1 equal length)/E(3") The intake setup seems fine but mind you no cars really suffer from intake issues unless you are at WOT. The greatest gains short term and inexpensive including MPGs could be had with a decent set of headers. In fact the larger diameter exhaust you are comfortable with, it is surprising how much opening the exhaust can do for performance and mpgs valve job Have you thought about just getting newer improved valves, look at the cost benefit. Newer valves also come with coatings to prevent heat sink and would allow for higher compression with the higher octane available. polished head This will help, intake, exhaust polishing but don't neglect the combustion chamber, if you're increasing compression do this to prevent pre-ignition crank/windage scraper This will do nothing for you at all. Unless you're revving the engine in excess of 8k rpm or something. You'd be better of knife-edging the crank to reduce rotational weight, any oil that is scraped off won't really do a damn thing for you unless you're building a dragster etc. L/w pulleys Do this, but you also better be getting rid of the fan & fan clutch. Install an electric fan and/or get a 2 or 3 row radiator to offset the loss of the fan/clutch. Losing any rotational mass or accessories will be beneficial. PS/AC delete Don't delete the PS. Go drive a car with no PS for a week and then think about it. Unless you have massive forearms, it can be a PIA Tune the factory automatic ECU (the car is 5-speed, NOT auto) Sure this works Upgraded alternator for less drag I wouldn't mess with the alternator, add the pulleys, delete fan/clutch, and electric fan and go from there, nothing really gained here LW fly/driveshaft/wheels Well if you're lightening everything and you drive an auto you may have driveability issues. Guys that have lightened everything on a manual have complained about clutch engaging/disengaging issues, but maybe if its an auto you might be ok. Wheels are perfect, but you better get some 15" or 16" wheels then. Nothing bigger. I see so many people getting 17, 18, 19" wheels, I assume to fit bigger brakes, but actually weigh more than or equivalent to stock. Real big gains can be had from lightweight wheels, I'm talking 11-12lbs each here, as well as low resistance tires. high flow cat and resonators This will help but get some headers and then add on to that I was thinking being high compression NA with such a long stroke and 2.4L, the KA would be ALOT more powerful off the line and in the low rpms of suburban streets. The only benefit of going SR or CA in this instance is the weight loss. SR and CA motors weigh less than the KA, something like just over 100 lbs i think. To that note, think aluminum. Rear knuckles, F&R calipers from a z32. Front knuckles from GK tech. The z32 TT had an aluminum 5 lug spare, alternatively the older mustangs had a 4 lug aluminum spare that should fit an s13. Some coilovers might be lighter than stock suspension. Also a helical diff will certainly improve mpgs. Fluids. all synthetic, I love Mobile 0-40w for the KA, go as thin as you can for the transmission and diff. For the engine if you want to get crazy, coat the coolant channels for better heat transfer. Removing excess heat from the block is beneficial certainly when you're running high compression like that, it could also reduce your cooling system size as well. You could try and go electric water pump or PS pump, but then you'd have to upgrade the alternator lol. Look into a good air/oil separator not just a generic catch can. You want to run very clean air through to get the most out of engine efficiency. Phenolic spacer to reduce intake temp, in fact an aftermarket intake couldn't hurt but one that will maximize flow, less restriction is optimal here. Polish the throttle body too, that's typically the greatest point of restriction in an intake and polishing this will help, at least for a DD trying to improve mpgs, not much for track cars. A lot of people might tell you to lose your emission stuff, easier to keep it and not deal with any problems later on. Also, maybe look into the GM ignition coil upgrade, better wires and plugs. The larger and stronger the spark the better off you'll be. So anything that will lighten the rotating mass engine etc, reduce restriction of flow or moving parts should be considered, depending on budget and time. Some people get nuts with mileage gains. http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-econ...ifications.php A lot of things things will net you maybe 1-2mpg per mod, if that. So typically doing a number of these things in concert will reap the best gains.

03-28-2015, 07:52 PM	#13
Hoffman5982 Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Definitely NOT FL.... Age: 32 Posts: 2,504 Trader Rating: (25) Feedback Score: 25 reviews	You people saying don't delete the ps have never driven a properly depowered rack. I love mine, and have no problem switching between my s13 with manual steering and s14 with ps. at a dead stop is the only time it's hard to turn, but if you ease forward just a hair has you're turning you can do so with one arm. You guys probably drove a rack with looped lines or one that just had the power steering unhooked and now think you know everything about manual steering. I can throw my car as hard as I want and have no problem driving it all around town every day of the week. __________________

03-29-2015, 01:45 AM	#15
Spectre420 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Virginia Posts: 30 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If you're going with aftermarket pistons you might as well swap out the rods and bearings as well. Decreasing the rotational mass of any of the internals will help mpg if that's your intent. Also balancing and polishing the crankshaft can't hurt either. Also, look at gapless rings too, to give compression a slight boost. You want to increase compression as high as possible with the best available gas. Stock pistons for ka24e. Not aftermarket. Dont have the money for rods. Bearings already being done. I am doing the crank balance n polishing already. Gapless rings don't help anywhere other than the leak down test. Its impossible to force any noticeable portion the great lakes outa a 2ft pipe 3000 times a sec. Same concept in a piston with a ring gap and air fluid physics. Also they wear out your cylinders faster NOT ideal for a DD. If youre going to be boosting compression do not get a race cam, keep it stock or slightly above stock, perhaps a little more lift if anything, but nothing crazy. dual 248 cams are stock cams. The engine just never came like that from the factory. The intake setup seems fine but mind you no cars really suffer from intake issues unless you are at WOT. The greatest gains short term and inexpensive including MPGs could be had with a decent set of headers. In fact the larger diameter exhaust you are comfortable with, it is surprising how much opening the exhaust can do for performance and mpgs Getting xsessive headers with a 3" exhaust Have you thought about just getting newer improved valves, look at the cost benefit. Newer valves also come with coatings to prevent heat sink and would allow for higher compression with the higher octane available. Yeup. Doin that too. I wont reuse exhaust valves evar! This will help, intake, exhaust polishing but don't neglect the combustion chamber, if you're increasing compression do this to prevent pre-ignition Good info didnt know you could do that for gains crank/windage scraper This will do nothing for you at all. Unless you're revving the engine in excess of 8k rpm or something. You'd be better of knife-edging the crank to reduce rotational weight, any oil that is scraped off won't really do a damn thing for you unless you're building a dragster etc. 10ish hp and some tq/throttle response is something is it not? Besides, the improved oiling and cooling and more oil in the sump is worth it with our engines being oil starved above 3k rpm without a higher flowing filter anyway. Don't delete the PS. Go drive a car with no PS for a week and then think about it. Unless you have massive forearms, it can be a PIA Are you kidding? I already did and it was the best decision EVER! A PROPERLY depowered rack is a joy to drive. Especially with a lightened car! Fuuuuck power steering! Upgraded alternator for less drag I wouldn't mess with the alternator, add the pulleys, delete fan/clutch, and electric fan and go from there, nothing really gained here But the stock alt sucks! It can barely even drive the car! Whats delivering all day without a killer system? Well if you're lightening everything and you drive an auto you may have driveability issues. Guys that have lightened everything on a manual have complained about clutch engaging/disengaging issues, but maybe if its an auto you might be ok. Wheels are perfect, but you better get some 15" or 16" wheels then. Nothing bigger. I see so many people getting 17, 18, 19" wheels, I assume to fit bigger brakes, but actually weigh more than or equivalent to stock. Real big gains can be had from lightweight wheels, I'm talking 11-12lbs each here, as well as low resistance tires. I specified its NOT an auto. auto is lame!!! I use the auto ecu because the tune is better on it and the rev limit is 7200rpm. I have lightened everything on the manual. 9lb flywheel, 10lb driveshaft, 17lb wheels, lightweight drilled and slotted 300zx rotors, the drivability is just fine. The people who complain need to get better at using a clutch in my opinion. I like 17 inch wheels. they look great. handle great. fit my 300zx brakes, and still dont weigh a ton doing it. You cant talk me outa those. LRR tires are way to unsafe for me. The way people drive around here, I need to be able to stop on a dime and corner hard to avoid crashes sometimes. high flow cat and resonators This will help but get some headers and then add on to that I listed i was getting 4-2-1 equal length ceramic coated headers. Alot of people might tell you to lose your emission stuff, easier to keep it and not deal with any problems later on. Also, maybe look into the GM ignition coil upgrade, better wires and plugs. The larger and stronger the spark the better off you'll be. emissions are already gone for weight power and compatibility reasons Planned on MSD ignition but I will look into the GM already have NGK LR wires

03-29-2015, 10:45 AM	#17
simmode1 Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Addison, TX Posts: 5,526 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I've done the N/A KA build thing. WASTE OF TIME. Between the 248/248 cam swap versus 248/232, I liked 248/232 best, it had better mid range response. Had I/H/E with advanced timing and a tune. Felt peppy in comparison to stock, but it reality, its just changing your powerband around, not making any real power. It was a waste of time to me because it was still slower than nearly anything else on the road except old Civics & old V6 Mustangs. Again... WASTE OF TIME & LOUD FOR NO REASON. I'd encourage you to save your time, money & effort. Overhaul engine to stock specs. It'll be reliable as hell while still being capable of a fun time. Save up for a truck to daily, then either turbo that KA or swap a real engine in. Just my opinion. Seriously. Go test drive something with 300hp+, like a BMW 135i or something. You'll see how pointless it is trying to extract N/A power from the KA. __________________ "Simplicity is the key to brilliance." - Bruce Lee

03-29-2015, 10:49 AM	#18
Kingtal0n Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Florida Age: 41 Posts: 4,828 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	lol at that list. NO. You buy a stock automatic 97-98 KA24DE with 98,000 Miles from someone who is doing a swap for $400, and drive it for 10 years reliably like that. A stock KA engine halfway through it's service life is as good as it gets for these cars.

03-29-2015, 12:25 PM	#19
Fuego Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Las Vegas Age: 34 Posts: 629 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	WTF is going on here? Option A: Put LS1 with a T56 in the car. Option B: Buy a Honda. __________________

03-29-2015, 02:18 PM	#20
krampus Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Chicago, IL Age: 36 Posts: 44 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	You won't want to use any car you like for delivery driving. It's a losing battle no matter how you slice it.

03-29-2015, 07:48 PM	#21
Bushido Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: SFL Posts: 3,563 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	I bet that a stock LS1 would probably get better fuel economy than a hi-compression KA. LOL. __________________

03-30-2015, 08:21 AM	#22
soundboy Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: trinidad Age: 43 Posts: 320 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	buy a honda hatch and daily that.

03-30-2015, 09:40 AM	#23
10psitx Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: La Grange Texas Age: 49 Posts: 274 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	OP your question while valid is also pointless in your particular situation....you are using your car as a source of income, meaning...modding any car brings with it some issues, no matter how insignificant it will impact your ability to consistenly bring in money.... If you how ever ....if you choose to refresh the KA , do a stock rebuild and keep it simple...Thats the very short answer....if no one ever made you aware it requires more fuel to make more power so MPG will suffer. If you really want to be sensible and make money doing deliveries then forget the 240 and get a more fuel efficient car....eg a 1991 B13 sentra 1.6 5 speed...it returns 40 mpg highway with A/C and powersteering!! and 35/37 intown again with a/c and powersteering...this car will practically pay you to drive it...there are possibly more fuel efficient cars but thats is my personal experience. TO put this into prespective, i currently own alot of other cars including 240's, a skyline and a few chevy's, and a toyota...need less to say the sentra is by far the most fuel efficient car i drive, it does have suspension mods which makes it quite fun to drive in the twisties......anyway just my 2cents.

03-30-2015, 11:39 AM	#25
omgosh Zilvia Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Tampa FL Posts: 210 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	SR20DE or used KA Racecar drivers use powersteering __________________

03-31-2015, 02:01 PM	#26
zurud Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: evansville, in Posts: 391 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	sell your car and get 90s civic

04-02-2015, 02:21 PM	#27
Spectre420 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Virginia Posts: 30 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I just realized I neglected to mention the fact that this car will be beat on regularly when not on the job and see a track 2-3 times a year. It also is not the end of the world if its down for a day or 3 for repairs as I can work anyway. I want a car that is both reliable/efficient while being fun. I have 5k to overhaul this car and my fully built engine will run about 2650 leaving 2400 for suspension/driveline/chassis. I am 6'8 and the 240sx with down/back seat rails fits me great and I love everything about the car. The sentra is a good car yes (except its wrong wheel drive) and I already considered the 2 car route. I just cant afford that right now being 19 my insurance would eat me up. I somehow got the insurance on the 240 for 40$/month and as long as I don't swap nor turbo it, it stays that way. I also don't mind sitting in 95 degree weather with the windows down and no AC so factor that in. I have had the privilege of driving several professional race cars and not one I have drove used either power steering or a steering wheel nearly as big as the 240s and I could turn them easily as I can the 240 once I am anything faster than 2-3mph Also I am a weight reduction junkie and dont want a v8 regardless. I dont like working on them, looking at them, maintaining them, listening to them, etc. I like i4/i6 engines best for many reasons. Sure the ls1 gets good highway MPGs but I fail to see how it out does the KA around town. Several people say to rebuild it stock for reliability and that's fair n all but why would this engine I want to build be un-reliable? I Need it to last me 125-150k tops and the RPM wont be higher than stock. It wont be making any crazy large power numbers. It wont be using anything fancy and complex prone to failure. I think this build will work for what I need. Am I smoking crack here? If so, explain please.

04-02-2015, 02:27 PM	#28
Dboyizmlg Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: SoCal (I.E.), San Berdino, Colton, Redlands Posts: 1,675 Trader Rating: (18) Feedback Score: 18 reviews	Ls1, LS1, Ls1, LS1, !!! No rebuild, no bogus stuff, done and done!!! Also, I'm not a fan of the Ls series motors in s-chassis, but screw rebuilding!