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Old 07-20-2014, 04:37 PM   #1
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Rear Differential Help!!!

I am in the middle of swapping an 05 Viper V-10 with the Viper T56 transmission into my 91 240sx SE Hatchback. I am trying to figure out which rear differential I should use, as well as what type of gears should be used. I want something strong enough to handle the power of the Viper V-10 motor with a LSD already installed. Also trying to figure out the best gears ratio for the rear end drift wise. Looking to make 666hp to the wheels with my beast, which is strictly a track/drift car. I am currently trying to get the gear ratios for the transmission, and will post those as soon as I find get them.

FYI: For those that think I am not serious about this build, as there has been lots of talk about doing it before with no one following through, I am currently over $3000 into this build, and with the purchase of the transmission in a few days will be about $5k into it. I am going to make a build thread once the build is complete, as I am not allowed to post it on here until I complete my build.
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Old 07-20-2014, 04:51 PM   #2
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Old 07-20-2014, 05:13 PM   #3
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I can post pics of the car completely gutted out and some of the mods currently at my house. Other than that you will have to wait until I get back from deployment in a few months to get install pics. I will be taking a picture of every modification I put on the car, and creating a photo portfolio for my 240 on Facebook, as well as a build thread on here. To save myself some money I am not buying the best quality parts for right now, as I can upgrade later to better components when they break or wear out. Just trying to save some money on the initial build up to get it completed faster. Will be above $5k when I buy the tranny in a few days, and am trying to keep the initial build up under $12k.
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Old 07-20-2014, 06:19 PM   #4
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The stock R200 will take that easily. Just get a decent clutch diff like an OS Giken or Cusco RS.
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Old 07-20-2014, 08:40 PM   #5
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What the hell is a clutch diff? Is that a different name for the LSD? So my rear diff currently in the car is perfectly fine for this swap? Just want to make sure, as I was starting to research a R230 diff. I know I will have to upgrade my axels, as that is the weak point for the rear end.
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Old 07-20-2014, 09:08 PM   #6
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I seriously can not believe the price of a LSD!!! $1300-1700, are you serious! WOuld hate to see what a top of the line one would be like...
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Def View Post
The stock R200 will take that easily. Just get a decent clutch diff like an OS Giken or Cusco RS.
A stock 240sx R200 with or without an aftermarket diff wont take 650+whp easily..

Ive broken 2 with 500whp and less torque than a V10 will put out..

Ive destroyed the pinion on the first one.. like missing teeth etc. and the 2nd was going to break but i caught it before it did.. the teeth on the pinion were showing cracks at the root of the tooth

I have since installed an R230 into my S14 along with bigger axles and hubs
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Old 07-21-2014, 04:40 AM   #8
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Ok, so I do for a fact need the R230 to handle the hp I will have. Got it. Well I will have to see who has a refurbished R230 they are willing to seperate with, and then find a mounting kit for it, as I know they exist. Found one for the 70-78z, so will have to continue my search on that. Now for the axels... I know the bolt pattern is different for those, so will I need to change my hubs to 300zx hubs, or S14 5 lug hubs? I was planing to do the ISIS Pro 5 lug conversion kit, however may have to actually get the true 5 lug hubs if the bolt pattern on the axels will not align with the S13 hubs.
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Old 07-21-2014, 04:52 AM   #9
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1. Somebody else is much further along on a Viper swap than you on here. Should look him up and ask.
2. You're doing a Viper swap and complaining about the price of a quality diff?
3. If you really are doing it and doing this much work anyway, why not use a Viper diff?
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Old 07-21-2014, 04:59 AM   #10
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Which Viper motor are they using, and which S-chassis are they swapping it into? I know it has been done like I said in other posts in S12s, S14s, and S15s. Not really complaining, just very surprised on the price, as I hear a lot of muscle car guys talking about theirs being like $200 or so, so was shocked when I found out ours were so much. Granted they use theirs for drag racing. I will try to find this person, as hopefully we can shed some light on each others builds. Appreciate the info!
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:14 AM   #11
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I did think about using the Viper differential, as I was looking to purchase a crashed Viper off Carpart, and literally take everything off that I could to swap them in. I am looking for the Viper diff, as well as the 300zx diff, in case I find someone selling one. The person you are reffering to, are they on this forum or another Nissan/240sx forum? I am not pulling anything up on google about a 240sx Viper build. I did find a few guys with the gen I and II motor, as well as a very clean 240Z with a Gen II motor! Most of what comes up are people talking about the Viper Spec'd T56, or Viper Alarm system. If you have the persons tag I might be able to find them easier.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:17 AM   #12
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Sorry, my point was more that you should expect primo prices for big boy builds. His UN was Gabe something, you can find him in the Vegas thread if you look back a couple pages. He's doing an S14, not sure what gen motor he's using though.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:20 AM   #13
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http://www.drifting.com/forums/gener...red-240sx.html Is this the guy you are referring to? Creating an account to message him
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:23 AM   #14
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Oh I am expecting big prices, which is why a $600 clutch, or $800 lightweight flywheel doesn't bother me. Just figured I would be able to make a very basic running machine with $12k, and now I see I have to raise my limit just a tad bit more to have it running. Again was more shocked about a 240sx LSD being $900-1700, when a Mustang or Camaro LSD (posi-dif) goes for $150-500.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:40 AM   #15
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Think I found him GabeS14 might be him
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:20 AM   #16
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Well when it comes to the 240 stuff, most of the quality items are made in Japan so you can expect to pay an extra 100-200 for the heavier/bulkier items.

That's the guy.
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Old 07-21-2014, 08:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
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A stock 240sx R200 with or without an aftermarket diff wont take 650+whp easily..

Ive broken 2 with 500whp and less torque than a V10 will put out..

Ive destroyed the pinion on the first one.. like missing teeth etc. and the 2nd was going to break but i caught it before it did.. the teeth on the pinion were showing cracks at the root of the tooth

I have since installed an R230 into my S14 along with bigger axles and hubs
A lot of it depends on if you're launching on slicks or something.

An R200 will take 500 rwhp. It probably won't take a huge engine and grabby clutch dumping on slicks. There's a big difference there.
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Old 07-21-2014, 08:44 AM   #18
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A cheap reliable setup will be the q45 diff swap that has been covered a bunch of times on what you will need for it to work. It appears you need to do a lot more research on these cars and that motor.
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Old 07-21-2014, 09:02 AM   #19
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Be careful which viper diff you get, they are all not bulletproof. Some of the older ones like around 2004 have issues with the main pin retaining bolt breaking and the main pin walking out smacking the pinion and blowing up. They are also weaker then the newer ones as well.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
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A lot of it depends on if you're launching on slicks or something.

An R200 will take 500 rwhp. It probably won't take a huge engine and grabby clutch dumping on slicks. There's a big difference there.

Well i beg to differ, I broke the orginal rear end in my S14.. the car had less than 80k miles at the time. and i broke it on the street on street tires (275's) shifting into 3rd gear.. i was beating on it, and i was making around 450whp..

The 2nd one had a few drag passes on it they were 4.36 gears.. and the teeth were cracking at the root..

To the OP i made a thread about installing the R230 into an S14 with good pictures.. there is no kit to aid installation.

I should have just put a Ford 8.8 IRS rear end in it.. thats what i would do if i were you.. Or take your chances with a skyline GTR rear end, there much stronger, only reason i went with an R230 is for the bigger outputs.. the skyline rear end has 30 spline outputs the R230 has 31..
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:56 PM   #21
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Fuego, that makes sense in regards to shipping, but not where the price will have $1k difference just because it is Japanese. Hell would make more sense to put in a domestic rear end with the $200 top of the line diff, over swapping a whole diff, and still paying over a $1k for a japanese diff. Started looking at possible american rear ends last night.

Blueshark, once I figure out exactly which diff I want I will have no problem doing the research to find out as much as I can about the swap, and components required to make it happen. I just need to know where to start looking based off the answers here. Right now a lot of my time goes into looking for the best price on parts that I absolutely know I need. When a question pops up, I post it on here to get the answer while price checking on all of the other known parts. Multi-tasking is the best way for me to describe my actions. I know the Q45, and R230 have been swapped multiple times, as they seem to be the most logical way to go when you stick with Japanese engine swaps. Type either of those 2 words in Google, and a bunch of threads come up for them. Not much ever says why they chose that though, just how to install, or things needed to install. Using an American motor that is about 2 times more powerful stock than those motors is why the question for the diff. That is a lot of power for such a small car. Trying to get input from you guys on what you have seen work on the cars that have the high hp RB26 and 2JZ motor swaps. I'm actually quite surprised more people do not run over 400hp with their cars. This is my first Nissan, and I have not exactly been around since I have had it to sit down and do much research. I am always traveling for work, so makes it hard to research items sometimes.

Dillinja thanks for the heads up on the Viper diffs. Was not something I would expect from that type of vehicle, seeing how it was designed for that type of power and performance. Was looking and pricing a complete diff from an 03-06 Viper, and found a few for $600.

Sfourteen I am deployed with a few drag racers, and they are telling me to get a Ford 9" rear end, as they are strong, cheap, everywhere, and everyone uses them for pretty much everything. I may just go that way, however I am not a Ford fan whatsoever and would never have thought to put anything Ford in anything I own.
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:59 PM   #22
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http://socalviper.com/message-board/...p?topic=1522.0

stolen from ^^^

Dodge used variations of this Hydrolok system in all the Gen 3 Vipers. In talking with Devon from Unitrax (http://www.gounitrax.com), he told me that one of the problems with this system was the metal used in creating the differential’s internal gears or spider gears. This metal was not the best quality for the high stresses that are subjected to the internal parts and thus the metal begins to break down and fail. Dodge attempted to correct this in later versions, however, parts were still prone to failure. Gen 4 Vipers got a whole new differential called the "Visco lok" which cured the poor metal problem. Since Dana is in the business, he has seen plenty of Viper differentials in his time and shops all over the country send him Viper differentials as well as diffs for other makes and models to be rebuilt.
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:04 PM   #23
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Appreciate the info! Just found a few people that have these Gen 4 diffs, so going to see what they want to get some of them off their hands. Maybe get lucky and have a Gen3 with the modded lsd, for a cheaper price.
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