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12-25-2005, 07:16 PM | #61 |
Zilvia FREAK!
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Yawn. You know whats crazy, how much higher my car sits with the SR. Damn suspension
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Current Project: Operation: N/A SR: 93 Silvia Q SR20DE Engine with go fast goodies. , "Common problems 240sx's suffer from are curbs, trees, ditches, and other immovable objects."thx247 "on the tounge... there is no guardrails."- citizen |
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12-25-2005, 08:22 PM | #62 | |
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12-25-2005, 08:40 PM | #63 | |
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ive realized that also....but the suspension also might just need to settle in ya mean? |
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12-25-2005, 09:11 PM | #65 | |
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he made it pretty clear hes doing an N/A sr project. Soooo your post sucks. |
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12-25-2005, 10:21 PM | #66 | |
Zilvia FREAK!
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EXAMPLE: If the ka makes 170CHP @ 5960 Revolutions Per Minute and the SR makes 170CHP @ 6680Revolutions per minute which one is going to win in the quarter mile, or in overall HP to torque, the KA hands down. At the price you can get KA internals for, you can do High CR pistons, and knife edged crank rebuild for the cost of that sr swap and have a monster, and still be street legal. But like I told the thread starter "what ever floats your boat" Guys in Australia that have the SRde want our USDM KA platform, so it doesn't reinforce anything you say. NA sr swapping isn't really to any advantage accept that it will have a little more rev for top speed, as well as your posting, reinforce what you say before posting. It's like saying think before you speak.
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Last edited by BigVinnie; 12-25-2005 at 11:40 PM.. |
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12-26-2005, 12:30 AM | #67 |
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not many people are sitting with NA sr20s in the engine bay. He might be doing it for the same reason I contemplated it......its different. Throw some ITBs and you will have an amazing engine. Great job on the swap bro, looks very clean
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12-26-2005, 12:47 AM | #68 |
Zilvia FREAK!
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Ya Turk, i hope the damn thing settles some.
thank you kwkouki. Some ITB's on this thing will be a fun engine. BigVinnie, I agree, its a dumb, pointless waste of money. But than again so is anything other modifcation you do to your car. I build my car for me, as a hobby, not because of what others think. I put a N/A SR into my car because I wanted to. Pics tommorrow, injector o-ring install style! Merry late Christmas guys!
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Current Project: Operation: N/A SR: 93 Silvia Q SR20DE Engine with go fast goodies. , "Common problems 240sx's suffer from are curbs, trees, ditches, and other immovable objects."thx247 "on the tounge... there is no guardrails."- citizen |
12-26-2005, 01:22 AM | #69 |
Zilvia FREAK!
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It's all good man I didn't mean to offend you. Having a car with a 2700LB chassis, and a lower displacement engine for N/A is a step down, and now will take you even more work to make HP. I don't want to argue, but a sr20de would have it's advantages if it was in a lighter chassis car (like a datsun 510, or an s12 200sx, or even a sentra se-r 1993). I mean just the fact the sr20de doesn't have oil squirters is taking a huge risk on your engine to try and keep the rev high for to long.
If you just wanted it to do something different that is fine by me I respect that. I just don't think there was any SERIOUS thought involved, if there was a project that is devised propelly usually has an engine with more HP weither customizing a car is pointless or not. But you might just have fun with that high rev who is to say.
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12-27-2005, 01:08 AM | #70 | |
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"Cause its different" Who gives a shit if its different? Only thing that should matter is what gives the BEST performance for the BEST price. Being "different" always comes after everything else, esp. cost/performance ratio. |
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12-27-2005, 02:36 AM | #71 |
Leaky Injector
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For those of you that think it's a waste of money, that's fine, it's your opinion, but I own a real S14 Q's in Japan it has a SR20DE with VVTi, and it is a better motor that the KA (IMHO) I had a KA 240 in the states. All I've done to this engine is intake,exhaust, no cat, ECU tune w/ speed limiter cut out (Japanese cars cut out at 180kph), oil cooler, and a yashio factory radiator. I dont know the power but it's plenty, I can drift on 255/40ZR17 ADVAN Neova's. I think it's a better motor. I love the DET, but you can build these Cheap all day, the only really expensive thing is a header, the cheapest one I've found is 60,000 yen (~$550.00) Tomei makes a lot of parts for this engine, including an ITB kit. go to the website, the HP numbers they show are a joke, they used the stock exhaust.
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12-27-2005, 09:41 AM | #72 | |
Zilvia FREAK!
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Current Project: Operation: N/A SR: 93 Silvia Q SR20DE Engine with go fast goodies. , "Common problems 240sx's suffer from are curbs, trees, ditches, and other immovable objects."thx247 "on the tounge... there is no guardrails."- citizen |
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12-27-2005, 10:57 AM | #73 |
Nissanaholic!
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I want to see # hp/torque
I never seen a KA dyno that shot over 200hp mark. if a Sr20de can do it, then I can see why a n/a sr build would be worth it. What is the highest rwhp for ka so far? what is it for sr20de? |
12-27-2005, 05:46 PM | #75 | |
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same numbers have been hit with all motor KAs... you just don't hear about them because they are used for off-road racing.
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12-27-2005, 06:40 PM | #76 | |
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though i'm working a little slower, i have a full time job and i don't have my SR yet. driveshaft bolts are a pain but after giving it my all and popping a vein through my forehead, they are off. auto trans was easy to take out and will save me a bunch of headaches with the minimal amount of space i have to work with in my garage.... btw, sorry to hijack your thread....i'm just as excited as you are and need to brag a little...my girlfriend is sick of hearing about it. |
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12-27-2005, 07:12 PM | #77 |
Zilvia FREAK!
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The only advantage the sr has over the KA stock for stock is the head, (and cvtc really doesn't make that big of a difference, and on larger displacement engines like the KA or RB30det cvtc would be pointless especially since you can use larger lobe and duration cams than the sr). It was tested that the sr head flows slightly better, but those numbers are marginal by the slightest. Head porting isn't hard to do either and any do it your selfer could do it.
Heres a pic taken from the 200sx forums, Joel chose the KA over the sr for a few reasons. But here is a good way to tell that the sr ports are slightly larger, but that doesn't mean that cheap head porting to the KA won't make it any less better. Infact mod for mod with some head porting the KA in NA would show much better results. To s14zenkiQ's, next time you claim you have something show some pics, (Nissan doesn't have VVTI, it has CVTC continious variable valve timing control). I'm calling your bluff.
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12-27-2005, 07:19 PM | #78 | |
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Nissan qr25 and VQ have CVTC
SRs have vtc.
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12-27-2005, 07:24 PM | #79 | |
Zilvia FREAK!
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12-27-2005, 08:56 PM | #80 |
Leaky Injector
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Everyone has their own opinion about which motor is better than another. I would rather have an RB20 than an RB26, most people that live in the statrs probably think that's stupid but if you know what an RB20 or RB25 is capable of, then you might realize that putting aRB26 into a Silvia/240sx is a waste.
To Big Vinnie: VTC is right, thats my bad, I can never remember what it's called. I'll get some pics after work, they're all at home. I'll bring them tommorow. |
12-27-2005, 10:47 PM | #81 | |
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What you just said makes me realize people forgot why its fun to get dirty when building cars *that would be self satisfaction* People are more worried about what OTHER people will think when you pop your own fucking hood. His car, his build, his engine choice. I really respect him for this. I personally cant wait and would love to see this engine with ITBs. It will impress me more than any DET or RB swap.
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12-28-2005, 12:02 AM | #82 | |
Zilvia FREAK!
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But to get back on topic I ALWAYS watch the RB25 smash on a RB20 by any standard, an RB20 can not match the injection or boosting that an rb25 or 26can handle. For those that select an NA SR over KA, plain and simply you are more stupid than you are crazy..... Just my 2 cent's.......... I think people should start paying attention to the KAdet guy's that are breaking records in the 1/4 mile with both the SR and RB guy's as major contenders. It will make you laugh when you see the KAdet breaking records on toyota 2jz guy's within and under the 10seconds. The thing that sucks is that people don't give credit where credit is due, and there is always a chump that thought he had gotten a good deal on an engine swap rather than taking the time to build something better for him/her self.......... This thread sucks and has turned into a shit talking debate.... Not worth it IMO.....
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12-28-2005, 12:52 AM | #83 | |
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I'm going to swap a D16 into my S13, cause "its different." Come on dude, get real. Now, if the justification were something like, "forced induction is against my religion," or, "I want to go N/A with ITBs," I suppose I can roll with that. But, "its different?" In that case, I stand by my original statement. |
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12-28-2005, 11:34 AM | #84 |
Zilvia FREAK!
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When Swapping an SR20DE S13 engine into a S13 KA24DE body:
-Motor mounts are identical, just like the SR20DET, no brainer there. - Lower SR20DE, and KA24DE harness's (The ones that connect to the tranny) are identical. - Use the Upper KA 24DE Harness, with the SR20DE ecu. ---- In order to make that work you need to do the following: 2. On the SR20DE engine, there are 2 plugs near the injectors. There are 2 ground wires on the stock SR20DE wire harness in this area, to help you understand what I'm talking about. Its the 2 plugs for the Idle Air Control, and FICD device. You will utilize only one of these plugs, the one with 4 connectors in it. --- On the KA harness, locate the following color wires near the fuel injectors. 1. Blue/ Red Stripe 2. Blue/ Green Stripe 3. Light Green 4. Black/ Yellow stripe. You will take those wires, and insert them into the plug in the following order. This is looking at it from the top, with the clip facing north. 1 2 3 4 Plug the newly modified harness plug into the SR20DE engine, wrapping up any bare wires you have incurred along the way, they are not needed. 3. The TPS sensor. The KA and SR use different TPS's, with different amount of connectors in the plugs. Its a 3 vs 4 prong design. Using the SR20DE plug, insert the following color wires from the KA harness into it. 1. Black 2. White ( this one is a large white wire, you'll see it, its bigger than the others ) 3. Green/ Red stripe Looking at the TPS, running from up to down, wire it as such into the SR20DE plug 1 2 3 -- Plug that into the TPS, wrapping up any other miscellanous wires not used in this operation. -- The harness will now extend across the front of the engine, giving you JUST enough room to plug the distributor wire into the distributor. If you would like to clean up the wiring, you would need to extend the wires just a tad so you can route them cleaner. Not needed however. - The power steering plug plugs right in, since its the KA harness, along with the MAF. What I did with the Ignition coil was kinda trick. - Instead of using the supplied SR20DE ignition coil, which mounts closer to the firewall than the KA24DE, I use the KA24DE ignition coil on my SR20DE engine. Since its mounted in the same spot as the KA motor, the KA harness plugs in perfect to it. Thus, instant ignition. I'm unsure of what voltage it puts out, but I'm sure its as good, if not better than the stock SR20DE coil. -- Oxygen Sensor-- I used the SR20DE oxygen sensor, cut off the connector, which has 3 wires on it, and soldered on the KA24DE connector, which has one wire. 2 of the Oxygen sensor wires will not be used, they are there to heat it up, a power and ground. You only need to use the sending wire, which is the White wire. The only other plugs that will not be plugged in at this point, is one plug near the coolant temp, and sending unit. Its not needed, either cut the plug out, and wrap up the wires, or leave it. Also, on the back of the engine, the KA has a bunch of EGR air bypass yada yada emissions/ EGR electronic things. That translates into a few plugs on the back of your engine that will just sit there. They are out of eyesight, so I just let them be. If it bothers you, cut the plugs out, cover up the wires, and clean it up more. At this point, your almost there. -- Coolant temp Sensors -- You need to swap both of the coolant sensors out of the KA, and into the SR. This will give you the stock temp guage reading, and let the ecu know whats up with the engine temp. Let it be known, the car will run without even plugging in the coolant sensors. I doubt your gas milage would appreciate that however. Once the sensors are swapped, simply plug them into the KA harness, done. Sidenotes about the Swap: The stock radiator fan will fit, but just barely with the way I routed my intake and radiator hose. I used a KA radiator, so I had to have a custom hose running across my engine to the radiator. If you use an SR20DE radiator, yours will look a lot cleaner, and naturally give you stock room for the fan, and shroud. That about does it.
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Current Project: Operation: N/A SR: 93 Silvia Q SR20DE Engine with go fast goodies. , "Common problems 240sx's suffer from are curbs, trees, ditches, and other immovable objects."thx247 "on the tounge... there is no guardrails."- citizen |
12-28-2005, 12:48 PM | #85 |
Zilvia FREAK!
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great info here, i really respect that you're doing something that few other people have done, if i were a NA guy i would probably do something like this too.
building cars is an art form, everyone should create their own style and it looks like you've got yours down. dont let anyone change your style for some people it is not always about power and speed with cars and all the people on these forums have got to understand that, if this guy cared about that then he would get the det, dont let these forum guys get to you whenever you do get the itb on her post videos of the sound please good luck with everything and i hope the motor runs well henry |
12-28-2005, 05:33 PM | #86 | |
Leaky Injector
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To the person who stared this thread, Good job on the swap, whatever you're reason for it is, the SR20DE is a great engine. |
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12-28-2005, 09:26 PM | #87 | |
Zilvia FREAK!
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KA and SR run on completely different maps. The KA ecu also utilizes smog equipment such as EGR/BPT, and other numerous smog stuff such as the AIV which was mostly given on cali models, not federally regulated models. You could use the KA ecu, but it would throw codes and run rich without the use of the smog equipment. You would also run into horrible problems with timing, the sr would run like shit on on the KA ecu. You could take a cheap alternative route and use the Biki Rom though, KA and SR do utilize the same daughter board with the same part numbers. Then you can retune the ecu per every mod or bolt on. Much more efficient for NA tuning IMO. If you wanted to go turbo you could even establish new .bins to format for the turbo, that would mean that you wouldn't need use of an SAFC, (well that is incase you can tune good). You will want to upgrade to an MSD SCI and coil the Nissan coil licks balls, and isn't well suited for an engine that revs higher than the KA, you will feel power start to drop off a bit early. You can always upgrade to an inidividual coil system if you do get the Biki rom. Anyways I'm not for your project at all (mostly my biased opinion being a KA guy), but hope all works well, I do understand that people do work hard to enjoy the progress that they have put into there projects.....
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Last edited by BigVinnie; 12-28-2005 at 11:20 PM.. |
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12-28-2005, 11:04 PM | #88 |
Zilvia FREAK!
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I was hesitant about using a KA ecu on an SR, but there was a lot of debate about it being able to run the car. A bunch of people pointed out it could run the car, but that was in theory. And it does do just that, it runs the engine. It just doesn't run it well. I knew about the different maps, I was just curious to see if it could indeed, start the engine and run.
I will change over to the MSD ignition down the road, with a nice set up spark plugs wires. The stock wires I have on there now ohm out good, but they could be better. As far as stock is concerned, its doing the job just fine now. Thanks again for the kind words guys, and BigVinnie, every point you make is valid and informational, please don't think you've offended me. As for the other guys, I think you upset them lol
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Current Project: Operation: N/A SR: 93 Silvia Q SR20DE Engine with go fast goodies. , "Common problems 240sx's suffer from are curbs, trees, ditches, and other immovable objects."thx247 "on the tounge... there is no guardrails."- citizen |
12-28-2005, 11:34 PM | #89 | |
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the idea behind using the KA harness/ECU was simplicity.
Have Jim Wolf remap your ECU and then not worry about having to rewire so much. Of course, this was WAY more common in the days when DETs came with cut harnesses (because the exporters weren't considering the necessity of harnesses). Nowadays, most every swap you see has a complete harness and it's easier to just do some rewiring.
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