Enough Ghosn?

[LarsG35]

Just to clarify here, but is the general desire that Nissan (specifically) reintroduces cars that hearken back to old designs and spirits? Or just that any car manufacturer will do it?

It's unfortunate, but most people just want to "ride" their cars (drive, but not be engaged in the experience at all). They want comfort, cheap, reliable, and not looks. But surely there is enough of a market driven by enthusiasts like us to make an "exciting" car successful.

I've theorized that a boutique car manufacturer could arise by selling limited production runs of a series of cars looking similar to those with niche followings. Although if enthusiasts only ever wanted the specific brand name in the first place, it would fail.

If a venture capitalist asked Nissan for blueprints to the 240z, 510, etc and offered 5% of all profits made while risking no liability for production, what would Nissan have to lose? Reputation? (Use a very different naming scheme?) Brand dilution? (Doubt it...) For extremely old designs do you even need permission as long as trademarks are avoided? As far as I'm aware the engine/design patents should only last 20 years.

Just me thinking out loud,
Lars

[silverarrow27]

^^^Like the DeLorean or the Ford Cobra replicas...I think you're going somewhere with this. But then, we're all too JDM on here. Who here owns replicas of anything?

[Green Arrow]

The end of the pathetic line ups and lack of enthusiast development may soon come to an end! He has been caught under reporting his income and using Nissan for his personal gain!

May we soon see a larger fr chassis development!?

[URL=https://www.foxnews.com/auto/nissan-chairman-carlos-ghosn-removed-over-significant-misconduct [/URL]

[[240sx]]

Originally Posted by Green Arrow

May we soon see a larger fr chassis development!?

... and their return to near bankruptcy? I'm surprised the Z car is still around.

[jdm_land]

I wonder if bringing the S15 line back and making them in the USA would make a difference.
The s15 could be Nissan’s answer to new cars like the Toyota BRZ and the Foucs RS. Stop the Z line and start up the S line.

[gbaby2089]

Yeah I'm sure introducing a car on a wholly new platform to compete with a sales failure is on every business's to do list.

[Green Arrow]

With all the cars available (mustang, camaro, brz/86, z, stinger) why are they all not bankrupt...regurgitating the arguement made on the future coupe thread from 8years ago doesnt hold water today

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by Green Arrow

With all the cars available (mustang, camaro, brz/86, z, stinger) why are they all not bankrupt...regurgitating the arguement made on the future coupe thread from 8years ago doesnt hold water today

.......You mean like they weren't bankrupt 10+ years ago before we bailed them out??

You have a very short memory....

Anyways, the reason Ford, Chevy, etc can produce hopped up pony cars, is because they sell an immense amount of trunks and people movers to cover the difference.

None of those cars would be around if it wasn't for the Cruze, the Avalanche or the F150. So please keep that in mind.

Nissan was on the verge of financial collapse and Ghosn managed to pull them away from the edge with mundane cars that sell (remember, he also oversaw Renault). Like it or not, THAT is what makes money. Silvias, GTRs, etc are NOT money makers, believe it or not.

I hate cars like the drop top Muran, etc. But other shit like the G and Q line sell. That is what allows the GTR, the GT500 and the ZR1.

[jdm_land]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Silvias, GTRs, etc are NOT money makers, believe it or not.

True that.

There were only 67,211 R34s produced world wide. R33 = 180,766 and
R32 = 313,491

American auto manufacturers like Ford and Chevy do get most of there sales from trucks and vans.

[jdm_land]

These company’s like Ford and Chevy also get juicy contracts for government vehicles. Nissan in USA is not supplying all of North Carolina’s police cars.

[RalliartRsX]

^^ Yep and yep.

Now, am I fan of Ghosn?? In all honesty, I do not know him from a hole in the ground. He did what he had to pull Nissan from the brink of collapse. Now, Nissan can shift it's focus to producing something sporty considering they are somewhat stable. The 370Z is a solid platform and the 350Z is now the new drift slut (but no one wants to appreciate it.......). The TT V6 from the Q50 can make 400WHP with (literally) bolt ons. GTRs are now making 2500+ HP. Stock location GTRs' are deep into the 9s and I think 8s.

Are they producing soul less cars like the Nismo Sentra (WTF!?!?!) or drop top Muranos (a face only a......well no one likes that abomination)?? Yes. Is it needed to support GTR, 370Z and hopefully new upcoming platforms?? Yep and I will take shitty soul less cars if I get the chance to drive a GT500R Mustang for instance.

I need to look more into the story to see how I feel about the guy. It seems they asked him to leave prior to this announcement. So we will see....

People just love to swing on the "WTF!?! Dem bitches any producing GTRs, or Silvia!"" When in essence, they all got killed off way before the 08 recession as they were not money makers....or before some of these kids were born. Also, if you have to blame anyone, blame having to deal with NHTSA crash safety and emissions standards that most of those vehicles could never meet. Its 6 or one, half dozen of the other.

[kingkilburn]

Thread from the fucking dead because I WAS MOTHER FUCKING RIGHT.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/11/19/b...ult/index.html

[crzsteveo]

But should i buy some stock now or no? Thats the good question.

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by Green Arrow

With all the cars available (mustang, camaro, brz/86, z, stinger) why are they all not bankrupt...regurgitating the arguement made on the future coupe thread from 8years ago doesnt hold water today

The Z is a thousand years old in automotive terms.
The 86 is getting old with no update in sight.
The Stinger is not going to be a game changer for Kia and even then it is there to 'elevate' the brand, it is not a 25k sports car, its a 'premium' car.
Mustang/Camaro are similar to the Wrangler in appealing to folks who don't care about cars but think people will find their dime a dozen cars neat.

[TheRealSy90]

Why won't people just accept the ecoboost mustang is the modern day silvia. It literally drives and performs like a lightly modified 240.

[[240sx]]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Why won't people understand that a neutered pony car is NOT the same as a Japanese sports coupe. Even if it drives and performs like a lightly modified 240.

Fixed. I'd take a gt350 tho.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Why won't people just accept the ecoboost mustang is the modern day silvia. It literally drives and performs like a lightly modified 240.

.....and sounds just as shitty lol. Those Mazda speed engines sound like a hard turd rolling around a cement mixer.....

[dizzariot]

In my own humnle opinion, all of the cars in the Nissan lineup that aren't vans (in Japan) are 'soulless and boring' and that's why they don't make a killing. At least Toyota has nice Corollas to fill the 'boring car' quota. Nissan's cars are all weird, unattractive, and in dire need of a style overhaul. They need a new automotive designer.

[Green Arrow]

F the mustang bandwagon, its a ford.
Big companys making cool cars and theyre all successful in it, no company makes each car with the idea of selling millions and millions. So the arguement that they wont sell is bs, as even the pontiac aztec sold to certain people.

I dont care if another s-chassis is ever made, not my arguement.
Bankruptcy is a mass talking point for any car company. One car out of a 10-15 car line up wont bankrupt a big company.

I agree with dizzariot

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by Green Arrow

F the mustang bandwagon, its a ford.
Big companys making cool cars and theyre all successful in it, no company makes each car with the idea of selling millions and millions. So the arguement that they wont sell is bs, as even the pontiac aztec sold to certain people.

And that right there is utter ignorance on how real life works lol.

If you think car companies are not in it to sell millions and make $$$$, then I have a bridge to sell you........

If you're argument were true, cars like the Honda Accord or the Corolla wouldn't exist lol..

But let's get back to Ghosn hate hahahahah!

[BOROSUN]

get that fucker outta here.

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

And that right there is utter ignorance on how real life works lol.

If you think car companies are not in it to sell millions and make $$$$, then I have a bridge to sell you........

If you're argument were true, cars like the Honda Accord or the Corolla wouldn't exist lol..

But let's get back to Ghosn hate hahahahah!

I think you guys represent two far ends of the specturm.

He's over here thinking that they make cars out of a passion for motorsport and you're saying it's solely for money.

I think it's in the middle. The ZN6 (I know, talking about it again) is the perfect example: low entry cost, aimed at a younger generation (hopefully to sell in large numbers), and an embodiment of the chassis it borrows its name from. Good mix of passion and profit if you ask me.

You're either an unconditional nerd for the platform you like or you're a fair-weather nerd. The former would settle for a new S-Car that's akin to the ZN6. The latter would only settle for a turbocharged sports car.

It's kind of like the new Civic TypeR: totally cool and has the numbers to back it up...but it's fuck-ugly and turbo. Kind of missing the point for the TypeR pedigree, amirite?

/coffee&whiskeyrant

[Green Arrow]

No they intend to make money, but they make cars that will sell medium numbers and they make cars that will sell millions (impala/crownvic=millions) (prius=hundredsofthousands).

If you think they thought theyd sell millions off of new chassis development vehicles everytime they go out on a limb youre the one with “ignorance”. You choose to see my arguement how you want to see if and shine a light on the highlight you want to see. And then imply im ignorant. You work for cnn?

Anyways, things WILL change with Ghosn gone. Hes no savior either. Has he held back the compmay? No. Has he inproved the company? No....

The lineup has been the same for over 10 years. Altimas/maximas making the rental world go round. Titans dissappointing truck owners looking for a good gas power hauler, Gtrs making fanboys say they are not GTRS. And the z34 helping sell monster energy drinks and tapout shirts.

No one cares about nissan anymore.

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by Green Arrow

F the mustang bandwagon, its a ford.
Big companys making cool cars and theyre all successful in it, no company makes each car with the idea of selling millions and millions. So the arguement that they wont sell is bs, as even the pontiac aztec sold to certain people.

I dont care if another s-chassis is ever made, not my arguement.
Bankruptcy is a mass talking point for any car company. One car out of a 10-15 car line up wont bankrupt a big company.

I agree with dizzariot

Considering Ford is killing every single "car" that isn't the Mustang, yeah........good point.

[TheRealSy90]

I don't understand some people..
"We want a new cheap turbo i4 coupe!"
"fuck the ecoboost mustang cause issa ferd!"
You probably haven't driven or drifted one, they're great.


Hell the 240sx/Silvia in stock form is a pos too so...

[jumpman2334]

not sure if this has been posted here, but it was an interesting read:

https://jalopnik.com/was-carlos-ghos...ked-1830569053

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

He's over here thinking that they make cars out of a passion for motorsport and you're saying it's solely for money.

That is not what I am saying at all. I am saying; you want those cool cars, you best be able to convince those bean counters it would either be a hit, or be a very limited run. Nissan was on the verge of bankruptcy several years ago, and I am sure, considering Japanese culture, they would sure as hell NOT want to return to the brink. They had to sell their soles to be sold to Renault.

The fact that Ghosn grew the company from being essentially smaller than Renault to being 60% larger than Renault in a little over 10 years says something and to rebuke him because he isn't producing a car without "passion" is basically taking the whole cool car thing out of context. Porsche, Ferrari, etc do not apply. They make for a very very niche market. Nissan and co are in it to mass produce. Passion cars are just a by product of making the bean counters happy. Simple.

The fact that they produce soul less, ugly cars are just the ends to a means to get them back to a functioning brand.

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by Green Arrow

...and the z34 helping sell monster energy drinks and tapout shirts.

DUDE LOFL! You forgot 'Violent Clique' windshield banners hahahaha.

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

I don't understand some people..
"We want a new cheap turbo i4 coupe!"
"fuck the ecoboost mustang cause issa ferd!"
You probably haven't driven or drifted one, they're great.


Hell the 240sx/Silvia in stock form is a pos too so...

THEYTOOKERRJAHBS!
Yeah I don't think the Ford hate is warranted. On days I dream about selling my S-Chassis cars I end up thinking about the new Mustang or a ZN6. That's if I don't end up with an S15 but i'm talking about walking away from Nissan completely. Ford and Toyota/Subaru have the only interesting RWD cars out right now.

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

The fact that Ghosn grew the company from being essentially smaller than Renault to being 60% larger than Renault in a little over 10 years says something and to rebuke him because he isn't producing a car without "passion" is basically taking the whole cool car thing out of context. Porsche, Ferrari, etc do not apply. They make for a very very niche market. Nissan and co are in it to mass produce. Passion cars are just a by product of making the bean counters happy. Simple.

The fact that they produce soul less, ugly cars are just the ends to a means to get them back to a functioning brand.

My bad. My argument has always been that a direct competitor to the ZN6 would be Nissan's best bet. Sure a lot of energy-drink-slurping hillbillies would bitch about power (like they do with the ZN6) but at this point I just want the God damned S16. Are you saying that the ZN6 venture didn't make money?

...and we're rebuking him because he fucked up lol. I don't know exactly how it works but I don't think he's the entire design team. They need to be fired because everything in their lineup LOOKS like shit. Altimas aren't even 'attractive'.

[dizzariot]

Does anyone actually know who designs Nissan's cars? Mazda has an actual theme that all cars follow and they update it from time-to-time. There's no denying that Renault makes hideous fucking cars...maybe that's why current Nissans are so bulbous and ugly.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by jdm_land

I wonder if bringing the S15 line back and making them in the USA would make a difference.
The s15 could be Nissan’s answer to new cars like the Toyota BRZ and the Foucs RS. Stop the Z line and start up the S line.

Nissan would never axe the Falirlady Z its right up there with the GTR in the heritage department. The Silvia while loved was always below both of them the one S chassis that stood shoulder to shoulder in Japan was the 180sx. Otherwise worldwide the Z and the GTR have the deepest heritage.

As to speaking of comments about Ford , Ford did not need bailout money in the great recission and did not take it.
Ford builds some awesome cars and while some have been discontinued in the U.S. per Jim Hacketts direction they are stil widely popular in Europe and are still being made and sold over there including new generations of models.

Finally on Ghosn truth be told I am not supriswd by this development. Nissan only partnered with Renault out of economic need when the faced bankruptcy
When Ghosn pushed the merger I am not surprised the board would figure out a way to block it. Japan and Japanese are a proud people in general. They do not kowtow to Foreigners owning and running their business. The French were and are greedy and usually ungrateful. They did Nissan no favors when it came time for Nissan to purchase stock in Renault per the original agreement . In fact they cheated them by only letting them buy 15% which is a non voting amount.
So in Nissans eyes Renault had already insulted them in 2003-2005. Now to add injury to insult Ghosn was pushing a merger that amounted to a leveraged takeover in Renaults favor leaving Nissan the lesser.

This kinda of stuff happens all the time in mergers and one company usually suffers for it. It happened to Bank of America a west coast based bank with great heritage.it was merged with a Smaller bank in South Carolina that raised capital and made a leveraged merger/buyout. Yup BA execs,got payed handsomely to allow it to happen. Becuase the banks founder A.P. Gianni was no longer alive and this being America no loved lost. It went through.

Of course if someone tried this on Ford because the Ford family still owns Ford in part they would have blocked it as well. Just like the Japanese Board of directors of Nissan did in this action.

I am interested to see what comes of this at Nissan in the direction they will take subsequently.