Ka24de cranks over doesnt start

[staying_chuki]

So i just finished this rebuild. Car doesnt start now. It didnt really start very easily to begin with either though.

But heres what i did throughout the rebuild : egr delete, the fuel purge canister deleted, butterfly valves deleted, new oil pump, timing chain kit, and gaskets etc.

So now it doesn't start, ive checked the timing 10+ times and at this point im 99% sure its right. Rotor on distributor is facing #1 plug and all dots line up on the chain. I am also pretty damn sure i have fuel, didnt tighten down a clamp all the way and it sprayed all over lol. I also do have spark, checked all the plugs and it looked good, ignition coil has been a little bitchy previously but im not sure how to test that. I think it may be vacuum but im not sure.

When i crank the motor it poots a little at the exhaust and seems like it wants to start but never does. Im just stuck, any help would be appreciated [emoji1303]


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[kyral]

sounds like timing. check your distributor and make sure youre lining up the dowel and the timing mark. DONT line up both the timing marks. I made this mistake cause I just assumed you lined up both timing marks.makes sense right, well I was wrong and actually had to line up the dowel to the timing mark.

have you also tried adjusting the timing a couple degrees?

[staying_chuki]

Originally Posted by kyral

sounds like timing. check your distributor and make sure youre lining up the dowel and the timing mark. DONT line up both the timing marks. I made this mistake cause I just assumed you lined up both timing marks.makes sense right, well I was wrong and actually had to line up the dowel to the timing mark.



have you also tried adjusting the timing a couple degrees?

Alright so for the distributor i put everything at tdc, and slid it in with the dot lined up on the gear and the rotor facing at about the #1 plug. I believe its right but if theres more to it than that lmk. Ive done a lot of very small adjustments to the timing and it only seems to get further from starting.


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[brndck]

FAST
Fuel
Air
Spark
Timing

If you're sure you have spark, try starting it on carb spray.

Have you used a noid light to make sure the injectors are firing?

Checked for codes at the ecu?

Are you using a timing light to confirm it's set properly?

[staying_chuki]

Originally Posted by brndck

FAST
Fuel
Air
Spark
Timing

If you're sure you have spark, try starting it on carb spray.

Have you used a noid light to make sure the injectors are firing?

Checked for codes at the ecu?

Are you using a timing light to confirm it's set properly?

I dont have a noid light or timing light, ill borrow em from a friend and check with those but im pretty sure they are. I pull the fuel rail off real quickly to check and all injectors seem to be working fine. And the timing i just lined up dots to colored chains. Long side on intake end, and upper timing same thing. All chains were tensioned and in place before i put the oil pump and eveything else on so i highly doubt its skipped a tooth or anything but i suppose its possible. Also how do you check for codes on a 1992? I have a scanner for my s14 but ive never had a check engine light in the s13 idk how to run the codes.


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[J-Spec_S13]

Originally Posted by staying_chuki

I dont have a noid light or timing light, ill borrow em from a friend and check with those but im pretty sure they are. I pull the fuel rail off real quickly to check and all injectors seem to be working fine. And the timing i just lined up dots to colored chains. Long side on intake end, and upper timing same thing. All chains were tensioned and in place before i put the oil pump and eveything else on so i highly doubt its skipped a tooth or anything but i suppose its possible. Also how do you check for codes on a 1992? I have a scanner for my s14 but ive never had a check engine light in the s13 idk how to run the codes.


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http://www.ka24development.com/ecu_codes.html

[S-Verteen]

I agree with brndck if it starts this way may be a bad egi relay

[jedi03]

all your grounds good?

[kyral]

The "pooting" (great word to describe it btw) means you are firing and you have spark and fuel


the arrow is dowel i mentioned that you need to line up to the timing mark
as the picture sits though the timing is wrong and the car will not start but will make that pooting noise as its just barely able to fire a few times
i spent 6 hours fucking with this on my first rebuild because i lined up the two marks instead of lining up the dowel. 2nd rebuild i had the car fired up the first try

or you can try cocking you distributor all the way to one side and then the other and try to start each time (if you dont believe me cause) i know everyones going to tell me im wrong and to get a timing light
heres a video that might help, its a different method. but an accruate one that lets you see if the gear spins on install and you can even play with the distributor rotor as youre installing it to make sure it doesnt skip a tooth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9omh5_qJRc
the guy even says in the video DONT GO BY THE MARKS ON THE GEAR cause they "FUCK YOU UP"

[staying_chuki]

I was lining it up like how its shown in the picture, on the little dimple instead of the big dowel. Ill try that when i get home today and see what happens thank man.


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[staying_chuki]

Originally Posted by jedi03

all your grounds good?

As far as i know. Cleaned them all when i did the rebuild. Car started fine before the rebuild so i doubt it would be grounds. Ill triple check though.


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[staying_chuki]

Originally Posted by kyral

The "pooting" (great word to describe it btw) means you are firing and you have spark and fuel


the arrow is dowel i mentioned that you need to line up to the timing mark
as the picture sits though the timing is wrong and the car will not start but will make that pooting noise as its just barely able to fire a few times
i spent 6 hours fucking with this on my first rebuild because i lined up the two marks instead of lining up the dowel. 2nd rebuild i had the car fired up the first try

or you can try cocking you distributor all the way to one side and then the other and try to start each time (if you dont believe me cause) i know everyones going to tell me im wrong and to get a timing light
heres a video that might help, its a different method. but an accruate one that lets you see if the gear spins on install and you can even play with the distributor rotor as youre installing it to make sure it doesnt skip a tooth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9omh5_qJRc
the guy even says in the video DONT GO BY THE MARKS ON THE GEAR cause they "FUCK YOU UP"

Okay so ive seen that video and thats what i followed to do this. Rotor at #1 plug when its in there.


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[kyral]

Originally Posted by staying_chuki

Okay so ive seen that video and thats what i followed to do this. Rotor at #1 plug when its in there.


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try the dowel then. that works for me every time and my car will start and run even with the distributor cocked all the way to one side or the other

[staying_chuki]

Originally Posted by kyral

try the dowel then. that works for me every time and my car will start and run even with the distributor cocked all the way to one side or the other

Okay it started! Now it runs like a fucking lawn mower though, idle jumps to 3 right after startup and slowly falls down until the car dies. Any ideas on that? If i feather the gas a bit itll stay on but it seems like the car is misfiring or something im not sure. I drove it in first across the yard a little and it was bogging pretty bad.


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[kyral]

Originally Posted by staying_chuki

Okay it started! Now it runs like a fucking lawn mower though, idle jumps to 3 right after startup and slowly falls down until the car dies. Any ideas on that? If i feather the gas a bit itll stay on but it seems like the car is misfiring or something im not sure. I drove it in first across the yard a little and it was bogging pretty bad.


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adjust your idle screw out a little. could also be a cooling temp sensor but try adjusting idle first.
also try adjusting the distributor a couple degrees at a time (loosen the 2 screws and twist one direction or the other)

[staying_chuki]

Originally Posted by kyral

adjust your idle screw out a little. could also be a cooling temp sensor but try adjusting idle first.
also try adjusting the distributor a couple degrees at a time (loosen the 2 screws and twist one direction or the other)

Alright where is the idle screw at? ive never done that before. To add some detail it seems like it is an idle issue, its like when the rpms are held at 3k it sits fine. But if i let off the gas they fall and it bogs. Above 3k rpms there is no bogging at all it revs smoothly. The car is also throwing three codes, knock sensor, maf, and crank position sensor. The maf is brand new and im sure its working so i think thats just a stored code. Knock sensor plug is broke and has been thats nothing new. Crank position sensor is a new code but idk if it would cause these issues. At least i believe thats the codes, 11,12, and 34.


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[oLemurs]

Originally Posted by staying_chuki

Alright where is the idle screw at? ive never done that before. To add some detail it seems like it is an idle issue, its like when the rpms are held at 3k it sits fine. But if i let off the gas they fall and it bogs. Above 3k rpms there is no bogging at all it revs smoothly. The car is also throwing three codes, knock sensor, maf, and crank position sensor. The maf is brand new and im sure its working so i think thats just a stored code. Knock sensor plug is broke and has been thats nothing new. Crank position sensor is a new code but idk if it would cause these issues. At least i believe thats the codes, 11,12, and 34.


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a bad MAF would cause these issues, try a friends if you have one

[staying_chuki]

Originally Posted by oLemurs

a bad MAF would cause these issues, try a friends if you have one

Ill give it a shot, thanks for the advice man.


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[kyral]

passenger side at the back of the lower intake plenum should be the iacv

[staying_chuki]

Okay so it starts up better and stays on. Maf was the issue there. Now my upper chain is rattling like crazy, i put a brand new tensioner on but im thinking it was maybe defective and the chain skipped a tooth. Would this cause the car to bog and overall just run bad? Im gonna tear it apart later today hoping its nothing big.


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[kyral]

Originally Posted by staying_chuki

Okay so it starts up better and stays on. Maf was the issue there. Now my upper chain is rattling like crazy, i put a brand new tensioner on but im thinking it was maybe defective and the chain skipped a tooth. Would this cause the car to bog and overall just run bad? Im gonna tear it apart later today hoping its nothing big.


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if you havent already removed the upper timing guide
pull the cover and check your upper timing guide to see if its broke. its very common for it to break and it should never be reinstalled

[staying_chuki]

Originally Posted by kyral

if you havent already removed the upper timing guide

pull the cover and check your upper timing guide to see if its broke. its very common for it to break and it should never be reinstalled

I have already taken out the guides. Im gonna pull the cover off when i get home and get a better look. The chain was tight when i put everything together so im not sure why its rattling like a mf. Probably something stupid, really wouldnt be surprised if autozone gave me another defective part. They've already given me a bad radiator once before which idk how you can even overlook that, so maybe the tensioner is bad.


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[staying_chuki]

Quick update, i never primed the oil pump. I tried it just to be safe and the car does seem to be running slightly better. But theres a loud pshh so i think my issue is vacuum. Before i go tearing alart this rats nest again, would a vacuum leak cause this crazy bogging at idle? The car sits pretty close to 1k now but bogs a lot and sometimes the tach fluctuates. But the car stays on without pressing the gas pedal now.

I also only have the header on rn, so the car is very loud. And i can still hear this pshhh noise over the exhaust. So like a realllly big vacuum leak maybe? Im not 100% sure i got a little lazy and paid a buddy to do the intake part haha. Maybe that was my first mistake

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[kyral]

if your guides were all plastic they have been known to obliterate themselves

a vacuum leak can definitely cause bogging

take lots of pics of the intake lets see whats going on
being you did an EGR delete you should really only have like 3 potential vacuum leaks
FPR
Brake booster (potential cause of LARGER vacuum leaks)
and IACV

[staying_chuki]

Originally Posted by kyral

if your guides were all plastic they have been known to obliterate themselves



a vacuum leak can definitely cause bogging



take lots of pics of the intake lets see whats going on

being you did an EGR delete you should really only have like 3 potential vacuum leaks

FPR

Brake booster (potential cause of LARGER vacuum leaks)

and IACV

Alright ill send pics asap. Im thinking it migt actually be the manifold gasket causing the leak, like i said i didnt actually put the intake manifold on so i cant say for sure. Im just slightly confused, ive had vacuum leaks before and usually my idle is low, but with this my idle is sitting in the normal place. Also when the maf is plugged in the car will die after a bit of sitting and bogging, with the maf plugged in the car idles okay but fluctuates a lot. Soooo bad maf or leak i guess? Spark plugs are brand new but black, running rich?


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[staying_chuki]

On a side note thanks a ton for the help so far Kyral, you've really been gettin me through this haha.


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[kyral]

plugs should be black is the white porcelain also black? if the porcelain is white but the rest of the plug is black that's normal

I forgot about the pcv system can cause vacuum leaks too

small vacuum leaks shouldn't affect the idle too much beyond making it idle slightly higher. so its likely a very large leak to cause it to run bad

your crank pos code and maf code are also a cause for concern

[staying_chuki]

Originally Posted by kyral

plugs should be black is the white porcelain also black? if the porcelain is white but the rest of the plug is black that's normal

I forgot about the pcv system can cause vacuum leaks too

small vacuum leaks shouldn't affect the idle too much beyond making it idle slightly higher. so its likely a very large leak to cause it to run bad

your crank pos code and maf code are also a cause for concern

I have a friend that just pulled his ka, going to go to his place and borrow all the sensors im throwing codes for and give it a try. Also gonna pull the intake manifold off tmrw and redo all that just to be sure. Ill keep you guys updated.


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[kyral]

Originally Posted by staying_chuki

I have a friend that just pulled his ka, going to go to his place and borrow all the sensors im throwing codes for and give it a try. Also gonna pull the intake manifold off tmrw and redo all that just to be sure. Ill keep you guys updated.


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Is this s13 with s13 electronics? (distributor has 5 wires going to it)
if so the knock sensor shouldn't have an affect on the driveability so you can try running it unplugged. should be a connector poking threw the manifold I believe its single blade, just unplug it its to the right of the throttle body somewhere (right standing in front of the car or driver side of the TB)
just a heads up cause it would be a complete bitch to remove and reinstall being that's its tucked under the manifold

[staying_chuki]

Originally Posted by kyral

Is this s13 with s13 electronics? (distributor has 5 wires going to it)
if so the knock sensor shouldn't have an affect on the driveability so you can try running it unplugged. should be a connector poking threw the manifold I believe its single blade, just unplug it its to the right of the throttle body somewhere (right standing in front of the car or driver side of the TB)
just a heads up cause it would be a complete bitch to remove and reinstall being that's its tucked under the manifold

The car is 100% stock 1992 s13 so yes all oem s13 electronics. The PO of the car actually somehow completely ripped the connector to pieces. I have to rewire it and get a new sensor, i think. Im not sure if the sensor is good or not tbh never been able to plug it in. Im trying to get this motor idling and running okay-ly and then im gonna work out all the kinks and get all these sensors replaced for real instead of just borrowing some.


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