This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[jaysgottaredtop]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Do you know how much longer they are over stock between the tension bolt holes and the balljoint? And are both versions the same just with different inner adjustment?

I would assume the extra length is primarily added between the TR holes and the ball joint, but I can't say for certain. I'll let Greg jump in here and answer those questions whenever he checks back in.

[Motary]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

I want a pair so bad, love the gktech tension arms I got. Tons more clearance than VooDoo13 tension arms. My only issue is I can't decide which length to get. I currently run +25mm s13 lca's. Just cant decide if I'd rather run the 20-45 or 40-65. Do you know how much longer they are over stock between the tension bolt holes and the balljoint? And are both versions the same just with different inner adjustment? I wish there was a way to have adjustable length outside of the tension arm mount, that way extending it doesn't also push the tension arm outwards.

The longer version has a longer main body by 20 mm and it is 4 mm thicker, it is only extended from the LCA side, OEM caster setting length.

[S-Nation S13]

just want to make sure will this work?

S13
FLCA extended 25mm
Moog 1999 Maxima Inners/Outers
S13 Rack in OEM location
S13 Stock Knuckle I plan on modding the knuckle but I want to try OEM knuckle set-up. Just starting to track my car so I don't want to make drastic changes to my suspension geometry if I don't have to. Just was to increase my steering angle a tad bit.

thanks guys

[zbarsuglia]

Hey all, got a couple questions.

I'll start off with my setup:

Front:
Ohlin coilovers 8k/6k swift springs
Spl outer tie
Ikeya formula inner tie
Spl tension rod
gktech v3 "grip" Knuckle
Gktech "budget" extended flca
Cusco adjustable tension rod brace
Cusco sway

Rear:
Spl ruca
Spl traction
Spl toe
Gktech rear knuckle
Spl solid subframe risers
Cusco sway bar.


I am building my car for a daily that I can take on the track for road racing/autocross. So is like the most grip. I am lowered a few inches. Fender arch sits right on top of my tires. 255/35/18 all around.

1st question, should I run my subframe with no risers or should I use them. I'm still confused with anti squat/squat and what will provide the most grip.

2nd question, should I be ok with Ackerman/bump steer/roll center?

I know these are probably vague questions, if I need to reword anything or be more specific let me know

I appreciate it!

[jaysgottaredtop]

^

Subframe risers, yes. Definitely an improvement in geometry and stiffness over the stock marshmallow bushings.

Anti-squat plays a role, but for the purpose of a fun street car with occasional auto-x events, it's probably not worth worrying about much. For more detailed info, the guys over at NissanRoadRacing.com know their stuff. Worth a visit.

Ackerman/BS/RC, again, your list is much improved over stock. But hard to give exact details on "how good" it is with just a list of parts on the internet. Technically, ride height, caster, toe, corner balance, etc can all play a role to some degree. Basically, if you have the parts already, put them on, get it aligned, and go have fun. NRR has loads of alignment info too, so check there if you want to be really specific about your caster and toe settings.

[zbarsuglia]

Originally Posted by jaysgottaredtop

^

Subframe risers, yes. Definitely an improvement in geometry and stiffness over the stock marshmallow bushings.

Anti-squat plays a role, but for the purpose of a fun street car with occasional auto-x events, it's probably not worth worrying about much. For more detailed info, the guys over at NissanRoadRacing.com know their stuff. Worth a visit.

Ackerman/BS/RC, again, your list is much improved over stock. But hard to give exact details on "how good" it is with just a list of parts on the internet. Technically, ride height, caster, toe, corner balance, etc can all play a role to some degree. Basically, if you have the parts already, put them on, get it aligned, and go have fun. NRR has loads of alignment info too, so check there if you want to be really specific about your caster and toe settings.

Thank you very much for the reponse! I will go on NRR on my lunch.

[kerolah]

SoOoOoOo... my gktech one peice FLCA are installed on my s13 and setup i went for the - 9mm through to 44mm FLCA size and i regret this size so much! I really wish i went for the larger 39mm through to 74mm. So much buyers remorse!!!

I wanted a pretty big lock setup and am not getting the most i can get at the moment due to the tyre hitting caster arm as shown in the pic below (mine is the green tyre with a little bit of exageration).

s13 Setup:
wheels +35 offset mm 17 inch
Spacers 32.5 or 35 mm
wheels 8 inch
tyres 225x45x17
V3 gktech knuckles
One peice FLCA 9mm through to 44mm s13 with arm extended ~38mm
6.45 caster, 4.5 camber.
Caster inner side i put the spacer 6-2 with heim in middle.

Is there anyway i can make these FLCAS give me more angle? or am i doomed? Thanks dudes!

[S-Nation S13]

Originally Posted by S-Nation S13

just want to make sure will this work?



S13

FLCA extended 25mm

Moog 1999 Maxima Inners/Outers

S13 Rack in OEM location

S13 Stock Knuckle I plan on modding the knuckle but I want to try OEM knuckle set-up. Just starting to track my car so I don't want to make drastic changes to my suspension geometry if I don't have to. Just was to increase my steering angle a tad bit.



thanks guys

Any body ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kerolah]

Originally Posted by S-Nation S13

Any body ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes i think that will work fine. Maybe get some rack spacers. Thats probs the best bang for buck for angle man.

[TheRealSy90]

Originally Posted by S-Nation S13

S13
FLCA extended 25mm
Moog 1999 Maxima Inners/Outers
S13 Rack in OEM location
S13 Stock Knuckle

You haven't done anything here to increase steering angle. All you've done is widen your track width. FLCA lengthening does not alone increase your steering angle. OEM knuckles are only going to get more angle with tie rod spacers, and then with the bump stops removed from the lca. At that point you will overcentre at full lock and need to relocate the steering rack further forward.

[TheRealSy90]

Originally Posted by kerolah

gktech one peice FLCA, s13, - 9mm to +44mm, tyre hitting caster arm.
tyres 225x45x17

Seems like a fairly large tire to run up front for big steering lock. Maybe they weren't designed to clear 45 series tire on a 17". Try going down to a 40?

[kerolah]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Seems like a fairly large tire to run up front for big steering lock. Maybe they weren't designed to clear 45 series tire on a 17". Try going down to a 40?

Thanks. i tried my 215x45 on and way better but not all the way lock like the longer ones would allow i think?

[TheRealSy90]

Yeah I think 45 sidewall might be your problem.

[kerolah]

yeah. sucks big time! as 225/40 17 tyres don't exist and 215/40 17 are rare and expensive.

Lesson for you all if you want the most angle possible out of the Gktech FLCAs dont bother with the smaller one piece length control arms and get the bigger versions IF you run 17 225-45 wheels, I assume you will have much more joy than I The shorter ones are good but i think the longer ones will allow for more degrees of lock in my case Overall a well crafted piece and the heims seem good. Ill keep an eye on them to check if the loosen up but besides that good product, Cant wait to drift with them.

One part i rate highly is the Gkteck tie rods and tie rod ends, very beefy and lots of thread on the tie rod and the tie rod ends are very easy to adjust. Just make sure you tighten to stock torque specs, when connecting to the knuckle. i didn't and stripped a spindle. Gktech understood and sorted me out a spare part really cheap and with express post so was super stoked about that!

v3 Gktech knuckles seem really cool as well, but i haven't drove with them so no comment yet.

The gktech high clearance sway bar is also really good. Clears my LS SWAPED s13 oil pan easy and allows for way more angle than a stock sway bar. it is beefy and was much cheaper than the alternatives on the market. If the knuckles alowed and i had the longer control control arms i assume this would be the bit where my wheels would hit next on angle (see pic below) however, because the clamp sits under the chassis rail, this bit could easily be cut off making it a bit more out of the way allowing for more lock if it did get in the way.

[Motary]

Originally Posted by kerolah

SoOoOoOo... my gktech one peice FLCA are installed on my s13 and setup i went for the - 9mm through to 44mm FLCA size and i regret this size so much! I really wish i went for the larger 39mm through to 74mm. So much buyers remorse!!!

I wanted a pretty big lock setup and am not getting the most i can get at the moment due to the tyre hitting caster arm as shown in the pic below (mine is the green tyre with a little bit of exageration).

s13 Setup:
wheels -35 offset mm 17 inch
Spacers 35 mm
wheels 8 inch
tyres 225x45x17
V3 gktech knuckles
One peice FLCA 9mm through to 44mm s13 with arm extended ~38mm
6.45 caster, 4.5 camber.
Caster inner side i put the spacer 6-2 with heim in middle.

Is there anyway i can make these FLCAS give me more angle? or am i doomed? Thanks dudes!

Can you clarify your wheel setup? You are using wheels that have -35mm offset and you have added 35mm spacers on top of it? If the offset is +35 and you are using 35mm spacers to make offset 0, then it should still clear.

You can also adjust clearance by arranging tension rod side rod end spacers. Place more on the outer side and adjust rod end position accordingly to avoid binding.

[kerolah]

Originally Posted by Motary

Can you clarify your wheel setup? You are using wheels that have -35mm offset and you have added 35mm spacers on top of it? If the offset is +35 and you are using 35mm spacers to make offset 0, then it should still clear.

You can also adjust clearance by arranging tension rod side rod end spacers. Place more on the outer side and adjust rod end position accordingly to avoid binding.

Sorry i edit above +35 and 35 mm spacer making 0 offset my bad!

So if i arrange it 4-4 or if allowed without binding and extending the castor arm out you think my Tyre will tuck in better? ATM i have 2 outter side and 6 inner.

Here is a photo when the car is jacked up and i full lock it (not sure if this different to if the car was flat?). This is on my smaller 215x45 (9mm smaller diameter than 225x45) It rubs the tyre quite a bit before this so this lock is pushing it.

[TheRealSy90]

I'm not seeing how any reconfiguration of the spacers is going to give you more room between the tire and that point on the control arm, all you'd be moving is the heim joint end in relation to the brackets/subframe.


One thing I never quite comprehended, do you have to wait to install the spacers until after you decide the length setting of both heim joints? Because it looks like if you install everything, and then try to adjust the heim length, it won't go very far until it starts to bind up on the spacers because the heim itself would want to move one direction or the other along the mounting bolt?

[kerolah]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

I'm not seeing how any reconfiguration of the spacers is going to give you more room between the tire and that point on the control arm, all you'd be moving is the heim joint end in relation to the brackets/subframe.

that makes two of us hahaha!

[Motary]

Mysterious reasons. You need to adjust caster from the strut mount.

Based on the photo provided, the current install appears to be opposite to what
I am suggesting here. Install more spacers on the wheel side and less to the chassis side. Just try it out

[TheRealSy90]

I see what you're saying, but being a one piece lca, you also just moved the ball joint the same exact distance in relation to how much you moved the tension arm heim. So the distance between the ball joint and that point on the arm did not increase? Wouldn't tire clearance stay the same?

[kerolah]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

I see what you're saying, but being a one piece lca, you also just moved the ball joint the same exact distance in relation to how much you moved the tension arm heim. So the distance between the ball joint and that point on the arm did not increase? Wouldn't tire clearance stay the same?

ya. Im a bit skeptical aswell. if i do do it i need to go get another wheel alignment which is $$ and the tension rod heim will have to be extended making the joint have less thread engagement.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

I see what you're saying, but being a one piece lca, you also just moved the ball joint the same exact distance in relation to how much you moved the tension arm heim. So the distance between the ball joint and that point on the arm did not increase? Wouldn't tire clearance stay the same?

Moving the ball joint forward changes the swing of the wheel and how it interacts with the arm. Yes you gain clearance. I have had these arms with the spacers in all different combinations (and caster settings), and the clearance definitely changes.

Originally Posted by kerolah

ya. Im a bit skeptical aswell. if i do do it i need to go get another wheel alignment which is $$ and the tension rod heim will have to be extended making the joint have less thread engagement.

It'll work, and thread engagement is only a problem if you're outside the max extension, which you won't be. Probably should have played around with it more before you went in for an alignment eh?

[derass]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Probably should have played around with it more before you went in for an alignment eh?

Once a person is this deep into steering mods and such, they should really learn how to use toe-plates and/or do a string alignment. Certainly comes in handy at the track if you need to replace steering/suspension parts.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by derass

Once a person is this deep into steering mods and such, they should really learn how to use toe-plates and/or do a string alignment. Certainly comes in handy at the track if you need to replace steering/suspension parts.

Yup! That's my second job now under the banner Racemind, haha!

[sr vegas 240]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Yup! That's my second job now under the banner Racemind, haha!

Hey that link doesn't work

[TheRealSy90]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Moving the ball joint forward changes the swing of the wheel and how it interacts with the arm. Yes you gain clearance.

I was just saying, the physical measured distance between the ball joint and that caster heim on the lca does not and cannot change. Because it's one piece...
I guess if you move it forward to the point that at full lock, you no longer are as close to that point, then you "gained clearance" sure.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by sr vegas 240

Hey that link doesn't work

Ooops, fixed.

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

I was just saying, the physical measured distance between the ball joint and that caster heim on the lca does not and cannot change. Because it's one piece...
I guess if you move it forward to the point that at full lock, you no longer are as close to that point, then you "gained clearance" sure.

The way the wheel swings changes. The arms position relative to the wheel changes. I’ve made these changes several times trying different alignments.

Sorta like adding spacers or decreasing offset increases the radius of the arc the wheel swings in.

[kerolah]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Moving the ball joint forward changes the swing of the wheel and how it interacts with the arm. Yes you gain clearance. I have had these arms with the spacers in all different combinations (and caster settings), and the clearance definitely changes.It'll work, and thread engagement is only a problem if you're outside the max extension, which you won't be.

Yes i understand that the clearance changes with different caster. but having such low caster is not what i wanted. I cant see how moving that caster arm over 2 spacers then extending the tension arm to the max while having the same caster settings is going to gain me 9+mm because of the angle it sits. I will 100% try it though.

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Probably should have played around with it more before you went in for an alignment eh?

The wheel not fitting in the tension rod curved arm is definitely not something i thought i would be playing around in hopes they work to full potential :'( if i knew i would of had too, there is no chance i would of got the shorter arms over the longer arms.

[jaysgottaredtop]

Your first mistake was running a tall tire up front.

Fix that, and it’ll fix your LCA clearance issue (plus other clearance issues in every direction).

Next question.

[kerolah]

Originally Posted by jaysgottaredtop

Your first mistake was running a tall tire up front.

Fix that, and it’ll fix your LCA clearance issue (plus other clearance issues in every direction).

Next question.

No, i don't believe at all that is my first mistake. My first mistake was buying the short control arms because they don't accommodate my wheels. Maybe tyre size is my second mistake

In its hard more expensive in AUS to get 225 35 17 and i have no clue about a 225 40 17. But, yes this is probably my best option at this stage along with changed the tension spacers.

Thanks guys.