[4x4le]

This is an email sent to me to post from Matt Brown at NIStune.
Its lengthy, but if you dont care to read it you have no business even participating in this thread.

============================================
Hi Brandon

If you want to post for me...

Hey guys, Matt here from Nistune. I've just been alerted of this thread so
thought I'd add my bit....

1. The unit will not allow Real Time tuning as is

yes it will. it allows changes to the ECU whilst the engine is running from
it. With both emualtors and our boards. If Nistune tells you that you have
exceeded your license conditions then it will only allow offline tuning (see
next)

2. The unit will not allow you to actually tune the map if you
install the software more than 3 times. That means if you buy this product
and you have a systems crash and you own more than three computers which
many now do you are totally SOL.

where did you get this information from? I should clarify from our official
source of information (Nistune FAQ)
"5. Individual License and Tuners License Difference
We have been working with and received quite a number of queries and
requests from workshops with what NIStune will cost for the workshop.
NIStune has now been split into two users licenses.
(a) Individual users license
- Intended for those who wish to purchase one or few boards, only needing
address files for those boards for personal interest
- Limited to three address files, and five differerent ECU IDs that can be
tuned in real-time
(b) Tuners license
- Intended for those in the business of tuning. ie primarily workshops.
Those who wish to either run NIStune with emluators and daughterboards, or
wish to tune using our RealTime boards
- Provided with complete set of Nissan address files with maptracing
information
- Unlimited emulator and boards supported
- Discount prices on boards, and further discount on quantity boards
ordered. "
As per our license agreement which you clicked when installing - you may
install on mulitple computers which are owned by you. You also have the
ability for unlimited realtime tuning on upto 5 vehicles (determined by ECU
ID). You may reset this by uninstalling/reinstalling the software if need
be. What you have written is basically misleading/incorrect

3. The unit does not allow you to adjust while the car is running.
You have to Image the map and then "burn" it to the eprom, this is not a
standalone unit. This is the definition of a reprogrammable chip just as I
thought.

Plain wrong. The boards have EEPROM backed SRAM. All changes made are stored
to SRAM when a cell is altered and take effect immediately. When you wish to
keep those changes the burn button stores from SRAM to EEPROM on the chip
whilst the car is running. It is not FLASH memory like Bikirom which is only
'uploadable' after 20 seconds of FLASH block erasure and reprogram.
Emulators are battery backed SRAM and have the same effect except they keep
their changes all the time but are not a permanent fixture to the ECU.

4. The layout of and the ergonomics of the maps and adjustments are
very generic or confusing and not very clear compared to FC Data logit for
Power FC or Haltech Software. There is much more room for improvement. Some
of the descriptions and adjustments do not even use the standard Vocabulary
that most EFI universities or engineering schools refer to in some
cases

We have a lot of positive tuner feedback expressing how easy the system is
to use. The design of the application was based from other various tuning
programs including TunerPro, Chrome, Hondata etc.
The vocabulary is based from what JECS/Nissan engineers called all the
parameters in the ECU (See Nissan patents for more details). Some of these
definitions (for example TTP could be broken down into plainer english).
Care to elaborate on non-standard and what it should be? We take all
comments on board for improvement of the software to make it easy to use.

However once it is all said and done the cost of the unit is almost
as much as a Power FC, which you CAN tune in read time using fc logit or the
provided software, you can map trace IN REAL TIME and you do not need to use
an outside EMULATOR or additional ghost unit to tune the car in real time.

Nistune single users license + Type 4 board + consult cable = $535AUD
~$430USD.
You can realtime tune, log and maptrace simulatenously with that setup and
guess what, no emulator is required. btw Where can you buy a brand new
PowerFC for that price??? Oh you cant. They dont sell them brand new any
more. What about second hand? I see an ER34 Power FC going on ebay for $2K
AUD... and the average price for a R33 Power FC starts around $1200AUD. Best
prices I have seen are about $800AUD

you can adjust a cell and hit "write all" over and over while
running and on the dyno for the same effect...

Thats what we do also when you have realtime tuning available

If someone could address the emulator and software license issue I
still believe this package is overpriced by about 100-150 dollars just
purely on the fact you have to image the rom and are not actually
re-programming the actual computer.

Our software license is an unlimited time license which is available in two
types, individual and tuners. If you look at FLASH based tuning systems for
Suburu, EVOs etc they charge more than what we charge for a tuners license
for each car reflashed!!
What you see with most 'free' aftermarket software is that they are
specifically designed for one purpose - and that is to run with the ECU that
it supports. In case you didnt realise, the cost of the support and upgrades
is factored into the price of the aftermarket ECU when you purchase it. We
would have sold our boards with the software 'free' and bundled but then we
would still keep the same price as current for the board. We offer
flexibility to split the boards from the software so tuners can install
boards for customers and also to tune with third party products including
emulators and calumsult boards.
License costs covers my time with support each night (20-30 enquiries),
developing new features, bug fixes etc, equipment costs, business running
costs, liability insurance and legal costs (which are massive especially for
selling to the US market) and all profits are taxed at 30% before I even see
any of it a. Compared to most software applications, especially for
automotive - its priced quite reasonably.
Let me put in on another perspective. How much do tuners charge for a tune
which is just changes made to maps? How much money do you put on a tune you
have sold? How often do you sell that tune to others once you have spent the
time and money developing it? Its all time vs cost and software projects
take a long time (its been about 6 years since starting writing the
application). How pissed off would you be if people started taking your
tunes and selling them on ebay or distributing otherwise. Its all
intellectual property and time invested which is worth something in real
dollars.

I am rolling on the Dyno Dynamics watching tractive effort and I
need to raise or lower timing value in real time to see tractive effort go
up or down so I can tune in steady state...

You are making your timing changes on the timing maps and the igntiion
timing reported by consult changes whilst you are altering the map. its all
good you can do that with Nistune

Also explain the refresh rate of the "Target AFR" function...target AFR
mapping is notorious even on highly advanced quick refresh units like
Haltech to be AWEFUL

target AFR is updated within receipt of wideband data from the selected
wideband unit. you put in your required AFRs and then the fuel map will
increase/decrease. I estimate processing time about 30ms at worst. Its a
feature some users wanted and we are implementing and testing

His software license was not bought new, but was tried to have been
transfered and they are not supposed to be transfered so that may have been
picked up on, however I dont think they have safeguards against that....
Somewhat stumpped

hmmmm... sounds like the license was for a board and you are trying to use
it on an emulator. Licenses can only be resold with my permission (see
license agreement doc) and we enable the license conditions depending on
what gets ordered. Sorry but you did not purchase an emulator license. See
the Help-About for the type of license you have

Live tuning is not the same as REAL TIME. Emulation + being able to write
the ROM is not the same as the ECU making changes while loaded on the dyno.
That's Steve's beef, among other things it seems.

The live tuning isnt avaialble with the license he is using which is why
this is the problem to begin with. The reason for the restriction is so
people dont abuse the individual licenses

How could it have saved him any time if the license would not allow us
access?

where did you get your license? what did you specify when you ordered your
license? most licences out there are not for realtime tuning with
emulators....

How will Nis-Tune as a company address re-selling, as is extremely common in
the Nissan community....you can just look to the massive for sale section on
Zilvia for example to know how common and popular this is in the Nissan
community.

We do it already. We transfer license keys and blacklist old ones.

The main beef I have, however, is that there is not a fully
downloadable and openly accessible software for the DIY'er or
customer...

Does it need to be? We have a trial run available. for experimenting. Most
fully downloadable software for vehicles is no good without the ECU
connected anyway


Regards
Matt Brown
NIStune Developments
www.nistune.com