[koukimatt]

Originally Posted by NINJASPY

I am currently piecing together a setup and wonder what you guys think of this coilover-sleeve setup- 90-97 Mazda Miata EURO Style Coilover Kit 331090 : eBay Motors (item 160417693900 end time May-25-10 14:26:48 PDT)

I wondering if the upper spring perch on those look usable? They are flat rather than conical like I see on other setups. And the tender/helper springs? For the rear? What difference between the two? helper only "holds in place" and tender preloads?

We're talking about 2 separate things here: the upper spring *perch* (which keeps the spring centered around the shock shaft) and the *mount*, which should allow the shock to pivot independently of the spring.

Take a look at this.

Autocross.dsm.org - Build Your Own Konis

In case that link doesn't work, here's the first picture hosted on Tinypic:


This is what the top of a coilover *should* look like. The upper perch is separate from the mount. Most coilovers have pillow ball joints in the upper mounts.

I bought an OEM-style set of Koni yellows, and used them with Ground Control sleeves and stock upper mounts. The front Konis are probably trashed; when I raise the front of the car and take the wheels off, I can see shock oil dripping out of the tops. The shock shafts may be bent and/or the internal shim stacks and valves may be destroyed. The most likely cause is the lack of articulation in the stock upper mounts.

Don't do it that way.

If you could rig a real upper perch on top of a Koni yellow, and then bolt it up to a Tein pillow ball mount, that might work. But the Koni yellows, plus the Ground Control kit (sleeves + perches + springs) cost me as much as a set of Stance GR+ Pro coilovers. The amount of frustration that I went through just to put the front shocks together wasn't worth any possible cost savings or performance improvement vs. a set of pre-assembled coilovers.

Originally Posted by NINJASPY

Would the spring seperator/perch( between spring and tender-spring) work as a torrington bearing? or I would still need them? Put tender spring above the main spring? and torrington bearing below everything? or?

I would say that torrington bearings aren't required, but they will probably reduce squeaking and they will make the springs behave better.

The upper perches in the eBay auction you linked to are functionally identical to the perches that came with my Ground Control kit. They *might* work if you could secure them to the shock shafts properly (which I wasn't able to do with my setup). You don't want the upper perches to move around on the shaft at all.

Helper/tender springs are supposed to collapse as soon as any force is placed on them. Their only purpose is to keep the (main) springs in contact with the spring perches, so the springs don't bounce loose from the perches if the suspension is unloaded (for example, if the car gets airborne).

Originally Posted by NINJASPY

Have= 9k/7k stance springs in 7inch and front tein camber plates.
Need= shocks, housings, misc (bushings, torrington bearings etc), and coilover kit/upper spring perches, and rear top hats.

I missed the bit about camber plates for some reason. The Teins are fine but you still need some real upper perches, like the Vorshlags that OptionZero recommends in the first post.

Honestly, I would either copy OptionZero's setup as closely as possible... or just buy some coilovers. The only thing I didn't like about my Stances was that even at the max safe height, they were too low for me, considering the roads in my area.

Something else I have realized about suspensions: Don't assume that stiff springs and/or low ride height will cause an improvement in handling. If you want your car to feel planted through corners or while drifting, you should probably look at anti-roll bars (sway bars) and shocks first.

You can use the OEM-style Koni yellows with stock springs. You'll have 4x4 fitment, but your car will ride better than it would with the stock KYB GR2 shocks. However, the Konis don't come with lower spring perches like the GR2s do; you have to cut apart the stock shocks and shove the Konis into them. If you fabricate stuff on a regular basis this would probably not be a big deal for you, but it was a pain in the ass for me. Oh, and the rear OEM-style Konis can't be adjusted while they are installed on a car. Again, either go big (OptionZero setup, Koni double-adjustables with the correct upper perches and mounts) or go cheap and get Stances or something. The middle ground isn't worth the hassle or the perceived cost savings.