Prop 8 yes or no - Page 4 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

*murda-c* · 10-16-2008, 03:42 AM

I'm now against gay marriages and civil unions becuz they are expensive.

*irax* · 10-16-2008, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan

So true... to elaborate:

This is not (all) about religion, it's about money.

For every die-hard gay-hating right-wing Christian out there voting against gay marriage, there's 10 middle of the road conservatives that don't want to extend health benefits/etc to same sex partners, for $$$ reasons.

No one's saying homosexuals can't love each other, live with each other, and be free from persecution. They're just saying they don't recognize them as marriages, and therefore don't give their Civil Union the legal benefits of marriage... that's what they're fighting for.

For what it's worth, my girlfriend's mom came out a loooooonng time ago, and my g/f grew up with 2 moms. They both love her, she's totally normal, and doesn't think everyone has to be gay. Sadly, she's not attracted to chicks much at all :/

not really, its more like for ever 1 right wing christian there is .72 'middle of the road' other wise when the vote was on the ballets... the 'christian' vote would of lost and not have been overturned by 4 'renegade' judges.

anyways has ANYONE actually READ Prop 8? It says nothing about churches being forced to accept gay marriages, or anything about gay losing rights.

Proposition 8 - Title and Summary - Voter Information Guide 2008

READ THE TEXT OF THE PROP!

ESmorz · 10-16-2008, 05:33 AM

"We should not accept a court decision that may result in public schools teaching our kids that gay marriage is okay."

Yeah. God forbid we teach our children to be accepting, forgiving, and open minded. Jesus would have hated that...

*murda-c* · 10-16-2008, 06:54 AM

Is gay marriage good or bad for the economy?

98s14inaz · 10-16-2008, 09:02 AM

Who cares anymore. I'm so sick of hearing about "issues" that really aren't "issues". It's all a distraction. Marriage is so over rated and doomed for failure anyway. You should be able to marry what ever you want...same sex, car, dog, cat, whatever. I could see a few of you marrying your cars lol.

WHO CARES.

neoninja · 10-16-2008, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spikNspan

fuck you. that is all.

oh yeah, and fuck the op for even starting this thread and also for telling me to be pc.

^^ that's just ignorant

Remember guys.... it's church AND state. You say that that church can't push their beliefs, but look what you are doing. Now state is pushing the church. We gotta work together and remember that we both have as much right and freedom. Why demonize someone because they don't believe in Homosexuality? People like to say they are so tolerant and they support gay-marriage blah blah... if that's the case then you should have nothing to say to people who feel opposite about it.

**mrmephistopheles** · 10-16-2008, 10:02 AM

My 2c:

The marriage this proposition is discussing is *legal* marriage. That is, one performed by a justice of the peace, not one performed by a priest/rabbi. Religious marriages are legal too, it's just that this proposition has no effect on those (i.e. there won't be any rule forcing a priest/church to perform a gay marriage).

As far as gay marriage is concerned to me, I don't really care. Not letting people legally bind themselves to one another isn't going to mean a whole lot. This is one of those situations where gay folks only stand to gain. If the prop succeeds, then they're in the same exact spot they were. If it fails, then that opens the door for them to legally bind themselves to one another.

As far as I'm concerned, let them. In the end, it makes no difference to me. Gay people are going to be gay, regardless of how bad people make them feel, or how much legislation or moral condemnation is levied against them. It's not so much that they're looking to be sexual deviants or have a desire to differ from the norm - it's just that their brains are wired differently.

While it's true that homosexuality isn't an ideal of nature (in so much that humans require a male and female to further the species), I don't think that their refusal to be attracted to the opposite sex is necessarily an indication of inferiority or deviance. Just because a minority of the population decides to not procreate in a natural fashion doesn't mean that the species is in any danger of dying off.

That leads us to adoption by gay couples, but that's an entirely different can of worms and a discussion all its own.

xpl2007 · 10-16-2008, 12:34 PM

Thank god most of you don't vote fo real! We will see how you feel when you have children.

vodka2 · 10-16-2008, 06:28 PM

I got a little sister.. if she comes home talking about its okay for a princess and a princess or a prince and prince to marry ill smack her and the teacher LOL....

*slothonaleash* · 10-16-2008, 06:46 PM

^^^YUH LULZ

"17. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

16. Gay culture is a new fad created by the liberal media to undermine long-standing traditions. We know this is true because gay sex did not exist in ancient Greece and Rome.

15. There are plenty of straight families looking to adopt, and every unwanted child already has a loving family. This is why foster care does not exist.

14. Conservatives know best how to create strong families. That is why it is not true that Texas and Mississippi have the highest teen birthrates, and Massachusetts, Vermont, and New Hampshire have the lowest. This is a myth spread by the liberal media.

13. Marriage is a religious institution, defined by churches. This is why atheists do not marry. Christians also never get a divorce.

12. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why our society has no single parents.

11. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

10. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

9. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

8. Gay marriage should be decided by the people and their elected representatives, not the courts. The framers checked the courts, which represent mainstream public opinion, with legislatures created to protect the rights of minorities from the tyranny of the majority. Interference by courts in this matter is inappropriate, just as it has been every time the courts have tried to hold back legislatures pushing for civil rights.

7. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

6. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because "separate but equal" institutions are a good way to satisfy the demands of uppity minority groups.

5. Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

4. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

3. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

2. Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

1. METEORS and VOLCANOES."

brian(na8c) · 10-16-2008, 08:09 PM

good grief, the fact is marriage has ALWAYS been defined as a union between a male and a female..Always.. gays can do whatever they want and get whatever benefits they want.. just dont call it marriage, because ITS NOT!! Its not the taking away of rights, its the defining of a traditional past time.

ITS LIKE THE GUY WHO PUTS TRAYS UNDER THE REAR WHEELS OF HIS CIVIC and shows up at drift day and swears he's drifting... Dude, take it to a parking lot, do it all you want, but dont call it drifting! And dont force us to accept it!

ESmorz · 10-16-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian(na8c)

good grief, the fact is marriage has ALWAYS been defined as a union between a male and a female..Always.. gays can do whatever they want and get whatever benefits they want.. just dont call it marriage, because ITS NOT!! Its not the taking away of rights, its the defining of a traditional past time.

ITS LIKE THE GUY WHO PUTS TRAYS UNDER THE REAR WHEELS OF HIS CIVIC and shows up at drift day and swears he's drifting... Dude, take it to a parking lot, do it all you want, but dont call it drifting! And dont force us to accept it!

If a guy tray sliding at the track could keep up with everyone else.

I wouldn't mind them tagging along.

*kognition* · 10-16-2008, 10:10 PM

One of my Aunt's is gay, and her and her partner adopted a child back in the 70's, raised her to be a perfectly normal woman.
I also have a friend that is gay, and has three adopted boys who are all three brothers. They came from a fucked up family in east la where the dad was beating on everyone. He is a single parent, is a professional and has provided the best environment for these kids. It amazes me how people are so paranoid about kids being made aware of homosexuality in school, when it is perfectly okay and proven that gays can adopt and successfully raise children.
I don't see the religious right fighting gay adoption. So what are they crying about? They should be cleaning their own house with the HUNDREDS of MILLIONS paid out to sexual assault victims in the catholic church! And Archdiocese Cardinal Mahoney kept hiding those GAY bastards out in different churches and hiding the records of these sick bastards of god. The Catholic institution has single handedly done more damage to it's followers than gay marriage or teaching kids about gayness ever will.
Then again, while i do believe in equal rights, i do not like to see the Constitution being modified. Because it paves the way for government to abuse their power.

*RedEvilRPS13* · 10-17-2008, 12:43 PM

^^Aunts, not Aunt's.

180f!xherUp · 10-17-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SexPanda

why not let them get married? Its making it out to be some religious thing... But oh wait, whats that one thing called... oh yeah, the CONSTITUTION. What ever happened to seperation of church and state. In the purely constitutional sense in looking at it, there's no reason. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Its 2 consenting adults, let them do what they want to.

And if it wasnt for the gay guys, I'd have no idea how to look good on a date.

LOL.... i agree, except the last part...

Baron Fel · 10-17-2008, 08:23 PM

I like how everyone quoting the bible believes it is law... The bible was written by men with opinions same as everyone here but it certainly does not mean they were right.

hitman · 10-17-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZipTiedCoupe

^~~Wrong. Bible says as the 2nd greatest commandment that you are to love thy neighbor. Also talks about marriage as a sacred covenant and should be shared by a MAN AND A WOMAN. You can love people, but you dont hav to love what they do.

lol, the constitution was drafted by Christians.

Christians, Me being one, believe in no homosexual marriages. I know its not right.

I voted against Homosexual Marriages.

not all the founders of the constitution were christians. a few of them were deists- hamilton and franklin for example.

if you dont believe in god i dont see how you could vote yes on this.
im voting no, i dont give a shit if they get married or not.
im sure it would make gay people a lot more happy than it would make conservative straight people unhappy.
furthermore if you seriously have a problem with this, you have no problems, and might be retarded.

hitman · 10-17-2008, 08:35 PM

one thing that pisses me off is when people say "what about the children?" "children need a mom and a dad"
THE HOME IS THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACE FOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN
in other words, the "home" is fucked up as it is, as a matter of fact, if you are a child it is more dangerous than any other place in society.

*kognition* · 10-17-2008, 09:13 PM

One in two hetero marriages end up in divorce anyway. Many of my friends have divorced parents (including mine). So where the hell is the sanctity in all of it anyway?
The funny thing i find about religions around the globe is that they truly believe that they have evolved socially and can go no further.
Tolerance across the board is what makes this country the most desirable place to be,........ when Wall Street isn't fucking with it anyway.

*irax* · 10-17-2008, 10:23 PM

look it's like this, religion created and defined Marriage. While at the same time non-religious couple get married. But to change the definition of Marriage to include same sex is against the definition. It's like saying black is NOT white, but then to turn around to say black IS white only because people want it to be. It doesn't matter who or what the group is about and the fact of the matter is they want to change the definition to be against it's original definition.

hitman · 10-17-2008, 11:08 PM

but... people made up religion! thus people made up marriage! doh!

Soooshi · 10-18-2008, 01:47 AM

I'm voting No.

I've got a few gay friends that are gettin married in a few days actually, and i fully support em.

I hate seeing that 'Yes on 8' and 'Save Marriage' posters. Discrimination at its best.

*irax* · 10-18-2008, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitman

but... people made up religion! thus people made up marriage! doh!

if that's how you want to look at it that's fine, but if you can not respect people choice in beliefs (no matter how 'fucked' up a specific views maybe, or how invalid you 'know' it is) then how can you expect them to be so tolerant?

also marriage is unnatural not every creature chooses a single mate for life. And humans by nature do not want to be monogamous.

*slider2828* · 10-18-2008, 11:31 AM

Wow this poll is closer than I thought it would be... I better go vote.

OMGYO · 10-18-2008, 12:47 PM

Basically, if this does not pass, they will be teaching same sex marriage to children in school. When I say children, I mean kindergartners and elementary students. That exact thing is already happening in other states.

luftrofl · 10-18-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMGYO

Basically, if this does not pass, they will be teaching same sex marriage to children in school. When I say children, I mean kindergartners and elementary students. That exact thing is already happening in other states.

-Then all of the children will become gay and will not procreate!

It's the secret, liberal, gay agenda to kill off society by making everybody gay!

vodka2 · 10-18-2008, 03:26 PM

Hahahahahaha ^^^^^^^

*drift freaq* · 10-18-2008, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMGYO

Basically, if this does not pass, they will be teaching same sex marriage to children in school. When I say children, I mean kindergartners and elementary students. That exact thing is already happening in other states.

wow you just smoke the propaganda pipe bigtime. Put down the crack pipe! back away from your computer. You need to go outside and start reading real books. Everything on the internet is not true. Everything in TV commercials are not true. Start thinking for yourself. You have become a senseless bot who believes everything thats feed to him.

***ThatGuy*** · 10-18-2008, 03:40 PM

You know it's funny, my daughter is kindergarten righ tnow, and she's never come home talking about marriage. Same sex or not.

If they aren't teaching marriage now, why would they start?

Paranoid bigots.

*allntrlundrgrnd* · 10-18-2008, 03:40 PM

I dono about you guys, but i remember nothing about being taught about marriage in school.

edit: damnit thatguy beat me, but not by much

View Poll Results: What do you think of Prop 8?
Yes no same sex marriage	67	41.88%
NO let there be same sex marriage	93	58.13%
Voters: 160. You may not vote on this poll

10-16-2008, 03:42 AM	#91
murda-c Has a Premium Member. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: deep inside...MoCo, MD Age: 21 Posts: 2,576 Trader Rating: (0)	I'm now against gay marriages and civil unions becuz they are expensive. __________________

10-16-2008, 05:33 AM	#93
ESmorz Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Peace Bruddah Mon Posts: 6,267 Trader Rating: (0)	"We should not accept a court decision that may result in public schools teaching our kids that gay marriage is okay." Yeah. God forbid we teach our children to be accepting, forgiving, and open minded. Jesus would have hated that... __________________ violentrunning.squidd.org/news

10-16-2008, 06:54 AM	#94
murda-c Has a Premium Member. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: deep inside...MoCo, MD Age: 21 Posts: 2,576 Trader Rating: (0)	Is gay marriage good or bad for the economy? __________________

10-16-2008, 12:34 PM	#98
xpl2007 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Irvine Posts: 1,263 Trader Rating: (14)	Thank god most of you don't vote fo real! We will see how you feel when you have children. __________________ http://zilvia.net/f/traderratings.html?u=57636 If i sold you something or gave you it for free post here! Thanks!

10-16-2008, 06:28 PM	#99
vodka2 BANNED Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Los angeles Posts: 1,179 Trader Rating: (18)	I got a little sister.. if she comes home talking about its okay for a princess and a princess or a prince and prince to marry ill smack her and the teacher LOL....

10-16-2008, 06:46 PM	#100
slothonaleash Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Columbus, Ohio Age: 18 Posts: 640 Trader Rating: (4)	^^^YUH LULZ "17. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans. 16. Gay culture is a new fad created by the liberal media to undermine long-standing traditions. We know this is true because gay sex did not exist in ancient Greece and Rome. 15. There are plenty of straight families looking to adopt, and every unwanted child already has a loving family. This is why foster care does not exist. 14. Conservatives know best how to create strong families. That is why it is not true that Texas and Mississippi have the highest teen birthrates, and Massachusetts, Vermont, and New Hampshire have the lowest. This is a myth spread by the liberal media. 13. Marriage is a religious institution, defined by churches. This is why atheists do not marry. Christians also never get a divorce. 12. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why our society has no single parents. 11. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America. 10. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children. 9. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children. 8. Gay marriage should be decided by the people and their elected representatives, not the courts. The framers checked the courts, which represent mainstream public opinion, with legislatures created to protect the rights of minorities from the tyranny of the majority. Interference by courts in this matter is inappropriate, just as it has been every time the courts have tried to hold back legislatures pushing for civil rights. 7. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed. 6. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because "separate but equal" institutions are a good way to satisfy the demands of uppity minority groups. 5. Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal. 4. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract. 3. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall. 2. Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning. 1. METEORS and VOLCANOES."

10-16-2008, 08:09 PM	#101
brian(na8c) Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: calimesa Age: 30 Posts: 12 Trader Rating: (0)	good grief, the fact is marriage has ALWAYS been defined as a union between a male and a female..Always.. gays can do whatever they want and get whatever benefits they want.. just dont call it marriage, because ITS NOT!! Its not the taking away of rights, its the defining of a traditional past time. ITS LIKE THE GUY WHO PUTS TRAYS UNDER THE REAR WHEELS OF HIS CIVIC and shows up at drift day and swears he's drifting... Dude, take it to a parking lot, do it all you want, but dont call it drifting! And dont force us to accept it!

10-16-2008, 10:10 PM	#103
kognition Lightweight goodness Join Date: May 2004 Location: El Cajon Posts: 2,102 Trader Rating: (6)	One of my Aunt's is gay, and her and her partner adopted a child back in the 70's, raised her to be a perfectly normal woman. I also have a friend that is gay, and has three adopted boys who are all three brothers. They came from a fucked up family in east la where the dad was beating on everyone. He is a single parent, is a professional and has provided the best environment for these kids. It amazes me how people are so paranoid about kids being made aware of homosexuality in school, when it is perfectly okay and proven that gays can adopt and successfully raise children. I don't see the religious right fighting gay adoption. So what are they crying about? They should be cleaning their own house with the HUNDREDS of MILLIONS paid out to sexual assault victims in the catholic church! And Archdiocese Cardinal Mahoney kept hiding those GAY bastards out in different churches and hiding the records of these sick bastards of god. The Catholic institution has single handedly done more damage to it's followers than gay marriage or teaching kids about gayness ever will. Then again, while i do believe in equal rights, i do not like to see the Constitution being modified. Because it paves the way for government to abuse their power. __________________ *Join Kognition's mailing list!*

10-17-2008, 12:43 PM	#104
RedEvilRPS13 Doin It Wrong Since 2004! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Manchester, NH Age: 25 Posts: 4,213 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: RedEvilRPS13	^^Aunts, not Aunt's. __________________ Tes cris se hachent, ta vie se gâche à sucer l'ennemi. J'ai peur de tomber pour ne plus jamais me relever.

10-17-2008, 08:23 PM	#106
Baron Fel Leaky Injector Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Mesa, Arizona Posts: 144 Trader Rating: (0)	I like how everyone quoting the bible believes it is law... The bible was written by men with opinions same as everyone here but it certainly does not mean they were right. __________________ -Chris now accepting funds for the LS1 swap!

10-17-2008, 08:35 PM	#108
hitman Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: late 19th century prussia Age: 22 Posts: 991 Trader Rating: (2)	one thing that pisses me off is when people say "what about the children?" "children need a mom and a dad" THE HOME IS THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACE FOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN in other words, the "home" is fucked up as it is, as a matter of fact, if you are a child it is more dangerous than any other place in society. __________________ she grabbed me by the wiener

10-17-2008, 09:13 PM	#109
kognition Lightweight goodness Join Date: May 2004 Location: El Cajon Posts: 2,102 Trader Rating: (6)	One in two hetero marriages end up in divorce anyway. Many of my friends have divorced parents (including mine). So where the hell is the sanctity in all of it anyway? The funny thing i find about religions around the globe is that they truly believe that they have evolved socially and can go no further. Tolerance across the board is what makes this country the most desirable place to be,........ when Wall Street isn't fucking with it anyway. __________________ *Join Kognition's mailing list!*

10-17-2008, 10:23 PM	#110
irax Powered By Chewbacca Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Diego Age: 26 Posts: 3,051 Trader Rating: (3)	look it's like this, religion created and defined Marriage. While at the same time non-religious couple get married. But to change the definition of Marriage to include same sex is against the definition. It's like saying black is NOT white, but then to turn around to say black IS white only because people want it to be. It doesn't matter who or what the group is about and the fact of the matter is they want to change the definition to be against it's original definition. __________________ VQ35DE s14.3 is finally home where it belongs. 0'10 is the year Ib goes BIG! ▲ ▲ ▲ I NEED THESE PARTS!!! ASAP!!! PM ME!!!*

10-17-2008, 11:08 PM	#111
hitman Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: late 19th century prussia Age: 22 Posts: 991 Trader Rating: (2)	but... people made up religion! thus people made up marriage! doh! __________________ she grabbed me by the wiener

10-18-2008, 01:47 AM	#112
Soooshi Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pomona, CA (2 houses down from the dead body) Age: 23 Posts: 5,858 Trader Rating: (9) Rides Gallery: Soooshi	I'm voting No. I've got a few gay friends that are gettin married in a few days actually, and i fully support em. I hate seeing that 'Yes on 8' and 'Save Marriage' posters. Discrimination at its best. __________________ <imgsrc="http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6123/siggyx.png">

10-18-2008, 11:31 AM	#114
slider2828 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 3,812 Trader Rating: (9)	Wow this poll is closer than I thought it would be... I better go vote. __________________ Turn and Burn!

10-18-2008, 12:47 PM	#115
OMGYO Leaky Injector Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Riverside, CA Age: 21 Posts: 72 Trader Rating: (3)	Basically, if this does not pass, they will be teaching same sex marriage to children in school. When I say children, I mean kindergartners and elementary students. That exact thing is already happening in other states. __________________ Pretty Wang ; ) // Outside Family TTZ

10-18-2008, 03:26 PM	#117
vodka2 BANNED Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Los angeles Posts: 1,179 Trader Rating: (18)	Hahahahahaha ^^^^^^^

10-18-2008, 03:40 PM	#119
*ThatGuy* Myth and Legend Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: MCAS New River, NC Age: 30 Posts: 18,038 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: ThatGuy	You know it's funny, my daughter is kindergarten righ tnow, and she's never come home talking about marriage. Same sex or not. If they aren't teaching marriage now, why would they start? Paranoid bigots. __________________ YES, I have a 240sx. NO, it doesn't have an SR. NO, I don't drift. NO, it's not for sale!

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