mrmephistopheles

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/26/us...alif.html?_r=1


Short story, CA (and other states) can now tighten emissions standards beyond federally mandated standards. This means that CA can prevent the sale of new vehicles unless they meet ultra-high standards, and if such legislation passes, I'd bet it'll be shortly thereafter that they tighten the smog exemption rules and make it cars 1960 and earlier (or similar).


Maybe I've got an overly negative outlook on this, but I know how idiotic politicians can be. I am in favor of making the environment better, but excessive governance is no way to do it.

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articdragon192

Especially on cars. Cars aren't the only polluters.

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palmdale_mob

I think all the environment friendly stuff and what not is BS
Anyone seen the Penn and Teller BS Show about Global Warming?
Al Gore's been doing that to make money, plain and simple

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drift freaq

Ah if you read that article carefully you will see that the waiver was for augmenting new car standards that had already been proposed and the automakers could easily pull off. Come on man were talking about Detroit and their completely unwillingness to do anything that they can actually do, out of their own backwards thinking.

They lobbied the Bush administration to veto the waiver. Fact is GM killed their Electric car they had 5 years ago when people wanted it.
Nothing in that particular waiver involved older cars.

Kevin I think you're being quite alarmist about this. I understand your fear but I already knew about that waiver because I read about it when it was vetoed by Bush.

Its nothing to get worried about and the fact is the Japanese automakers could already meet it. Detroit was the biggest whiner about it. Of course Detroit never seems to do the right thing anymore so I would not worry about that waiver.

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ZenkiKid

ive heard that the biggest polluter to the o zone layer is cow shit, due to all the methane it emits, no joke.. compared to cow shit car smog is nothing

!Zar!

Whatever.

I could care less.

I hope they make the smog more strict.

I could give a shit less.

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BustedS13

my state did away with pre-obd2 emissions testing ENTIRELY about a year and a half ago. when you get your safety inspection, they now also check for emissions equipment. but not really.

mrmephistopheles

I won't lie and say that I'm not feeling that way.

I'm all for cleaner air but taking enthusiasts cars off the road won't do a goddamn thing for it, and forcing manufacturers to meet ever-stricter standards will ultimately choke the vehicle market and drive prices up for consumers.

You know how retarded legislators can be, I'm sure. CA will be soon free of mousefarts and guns, and everything will be as happy and innocent as Disneyland.

Frankly, I'd love to see manufacturers innovate and put out great fuel efficient cars. Look at the Chevy Volt - if half the country had those (or similar models from other companies, the oil companies would lose their collective asses. Diesel consumption would stay roughly the same, but gasoline consumption would plummet. If that car can really go around 40 miles on a charge before using any gas, that'll keep most people away from the pumps (or at least visiting them FAR less). I know that the amount of money my family spends on gas would likely fall by ~75% or more. We travel MAYBE 50 miles in a week, and most of that is 2-10 mile trips. Sometimes we drive out to see family, but again, that's ~40 miles away.
Doesn't mean we wouldn't be using ANY - but it'd be far less.

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drift freaq

I can pretty much agree with you here. For every good step forward we make some jack ass in Sacramento manages to get lobbied to ignore something that would help.
I have heard the talk, that some legislators i.e. a certain state rep from Fresno stated .Who is the pocket of the farm lobbies I might add, proposing the whole removing the pre 75 exemption based on his idea that the 10% of the cars on the road that are pre 75 put out 65% of the pollution lol. Ya and all the farms in the central valley that are completely exempt from smog rules, for all their combines, tractors trucks etc.... Which has made the central valley as polluted smog wise as LA.

I think the main problem is not so much the waiver but how certain state reps and senators interpret them and try to influence CARB. We need to start letter writing campaigns to these guys to educate them. If they got thousands of letters from their constituents then they would think and possibly learn a little more. On the state level this stuff actually works.

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DataXUnknown

I wonder what kind of fuel efficiency laws and smog laws there are on a jet airplane? 1000+ hp engines I'm sure are highly environmentally friendly.

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OttoCobra

If emissions become any tougher, we will just be considered outlaws by our looks alone. I'm all for tighter new car standards, let them deal with it.

KA24DESOneThree

This is, of course, yet another example of government run amok.

We have a president who promises to be a global green leader, but who doesn't realize that there are no provisions for such. There is no mandate from the people to be green; in fact, if one looked at the lifestyle of the people even now, there would be a mandate for exactly the opposite. The government is by the people and does not tell the people what to do and how to act. It is beyond the scope of government to do so.

The government does not know best, nor does the government have a say here. Given the taxation level in California, the politicians have no right to tell us what we can and cannot drive. Driving is no longer a privilege, but a right given to us by our tax dollars.

When smog rules tighten up, the owners of cheap old cars are forced to:
1. Stop driving, park the car, and let it rot.
2. Sell the car to the state.
3. Repair the emissions control system, resulting in tax revenue to the state.
4. Buy a newer car, resulting in tax revenue to the state.

It doesn't boil down to green policy in the environmental sense but rather in the monetary sense. These pieces of legislation increase the money in the coffers of the state and in the war chests of the legislators.

We the people of the state of California were promised better roads with less traffic, an achievement which would decrease emissions by a startling amount, and we have received nothing but a drop in the bucket.

Considering California's current economic crisis, with a failed governator and a failed legislature, I am absolutely not surprised by any and all attempts to increase state revenue in the pretext of going green. In fact, I am disgusted with our leaders, all of them, and demand they immediately vacate office and cede their power to more effective and less corrupt people. Apparently, a recall was not enough for the office of governor to learn its lesson.

There are a couple things we can do here in California:
-Write to your representative and tell him or her how disgusted you are with the state of affairs here.
- Write to Barbara and Diane and tell them how crappy a job they're doing.
- Go up to Sacramento and blockade the Capitol. One thousand cars would be nice, ten thousand would be better. We will force our government to capitulate to reason and sanity.

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VROOOM

cars in the 60's never came with smog equipment. how are they gonna make you smog the car??

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muddafakka

I'm pretty sure vehicles older than *1975 will always be the exception to the rule.

(*or whatever year they started adding catalytic converters and other smog equipment)

I agree with what Meph said but I'm not really surprised by this. The worst part is that it's only gonna get worse. Instead of picking on cars all the time, I wish they'd place more emphasis on factories, tractor trailers/other large trucks/buses, aircraft, boats, etc.

SimpleS14

Other states have the option to adopt the CA laws...so for now we can just cross our fingers and hope our states stick to fed. regulations AND Cali doesn't impose stricter laws.

For some reason I can see North VA jumping on this really quick. :|

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VROOOM

they are. i believe next year all trucks in CA will have to newer than 1994(i think) or have particulate filters on them(they cost 20k). the company i work for is looking at having to spend over 150 million on new trucks/Heavy Equipment(Cat, JD, Komatsu)

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Otto347

Thats why I love florida. We aint got shit.

mrflip69

I thought CA standards were already above Federal. Isn't that why they make CA specific models?

Detroit really needs to step up. Try watching "Who Killed the Electric Car" some time. 40 miles is weak, if you look at the #s the EV1 put out at the time. We've got more efficient batteries and electronics now... 40 is fine for most people, but they can definitely do better.

Do any of you remember the smog alert days here in SoCal? Days where it was so brown outside, it was mandatory to stay inside during school breaks?

ILoveMyRHS13

Looks like the messiah is starting to let everyone down.

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ONYX S-13

Uhhhhhh no ..

I've never even heard of that, pretty gross though.

kingkilburn

When the land fill here in Fresno was set on fire they canceled school for like four days. When they did let us back we had to eat in side and there was no PE.

If people have a problem with this kind of legislation write a letter to SEMA. Give your voice to the lobbyist that oppose this type of thing.

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Originally Posted by Om1kron I hope you fall down a mountain of dicks naked and ass first.

Anto

yee haw

time to sell my car and get an ka turbo or v8 240z

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98s14inaz

I agree completely. This is just a knee jerk reaction to look more green. I swear cars are not the biggest polluters but they are the easiest to tax and regulate.

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s0apgun

in illinois pre obd2 cars don't need to have anything checked

i can poor gasoline out of my exhaust while shooting my bottle rockets and it wouldnt matter

ONYX S-13

LOL...

"Yep you pass. Everything looks to be running perfectly fine/clean"

JohnnyDrfiter22

They need to stop producing so many damn vehicles!!! Thats whats wrong we got more cars on the streets than ppl.

Also another Note The "Governator" passed a law in California making it easier on emissions.

alindeman1989

dammit o well yeah for stock ka!!

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efrain240sx

Man that is some serious f'ed up shit, I am so tired of CA spending so much of are tax dollars on stupid shit like this. They should be spending it on better things like making are fucken streets safer and creating better jobs. Here is a Snapple fact for you guys, one BBQ grillout with charcoal emits more polution then a car does in a whole year.

theicecreamdan

You know what, I'm glad. I know there are other sources of emissions out there, but cars are a VERY large portion of the pollution out there. I'm sick of seeing shit brown skylines no matter where I go. Get after the shitty polluter cars out there and tax the shit out of gas guzzlers.

a small car getting around 40mpg driven only 100 miles per month puts out 0.354 TONS of carbon dioxide, the main greenhouse gas. For the lazy people that is 708 pounds.

Running a charcoal bbq for an hour puts out 11 POUNDS. I would LOVE to go to your BBQ grillouts man, grilling with 64 grills going can feed a lot of people. In fact I'm POSITIVE that it feeds more people than driving a civic 1200 miles could feed.

Is it better for the planet to grill with charcoal or gas? - By Brendan I. Koerner - Slate Magazine
Carbon dioxide emission calculator and offset estimator

Also consider that charcoal is essentially carbon dioxide neutral, because they are made from wood that has absorbed as much carbon dioxide as it will be able to release. Fossil fuels on the other hand are taken from carbon sources that have been FAR away from our atmosphere for a very long time.

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efrain240sx

^^^ what that fucken Snapple lied to me then, I will never trust another Snapple fact again in my life =(