The 2011 240 and other future RWD coupe thread

[tacotacotaco]

Please nissan make me like it!!!

[boosteds13]

A turbo version of the QR25DE would be pretty sweet. Although they would need to make it look nice as well. If it looks anything like that pic, count me out.

[exitspeed]

I like the over-all shape of the Urge so I can see it making a nice shape for the new 240.

[Kn1ves]

anyone want to photoshop it with proper body panels?

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Kn1ves

anyone want to photoshop it with proper body panels?

Edit: And here we go. Someone did this a long time ago.

[PHLIP]

No need to make an "official" thread, we already had the ongoing discussion with the link contained, I shall merge

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by PHLIP

No need to make an "official" thread, we already had the ongoing discussion with the link contained, I shall merge

Great. Here's another old pic of the Urge Concept I had in photobucket.

[kyoru]

hyundai is supposidly developing a rwd platform that will fill the $25K range, i think they will control that market when it is released

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by kyoru

hyundai is supposidly developing a rwd platform that will fill the $25K range, i think they will control that market when it is released

I used to think so. But now that Nissan AND Mazda are coming out with something I doubt it. All things equal I'd still rather buy a Nissa or Mazda over a Hyundai. Even though I know they have made improvements by leaps and bounds.

[svensko]

You guys say that the RWD market consists of the RX8 and 350z. You're all retarded. I'm guessing you guys didn't include the Corvette becaues it's American? OH GOD! A V8! Run for your lives! . I'm guessing you didn't include the S2000 because every Honda owner is a ricer. I'm guessing you didn't include the IS 250 manual because it lacks a reasonable after market. What about the BMW 335? Inline 6 TT, I'm surprised you RB nerds aren't precumming yourselves over that. I'm guessing the Mazda MX-5 Hardtop wasn't included because of the stereotype, which isn't much better than the JDM TYTE stereotype of 240SX owners.

I don't get you guys sometimes.

[exitspeed]

Don't walk into the end of a conversation you haven't been paying attnetion to and try to insult people.

This discussion is regarding a new segment of RWD cars in the $25k range brand new. All those cars you mentioned are not in this segment what-so-ever.

Thank you and shut the fuck up.

[svensko]

Miata starts at 21K. Not sure what kinda dealer markup you've heard of people paying. A BASE 350Z starts at 28K. the Lexus is only 2K more. The Honda is only 4K more. The Vette and the BMW may be out of the price range, however good luck talking a Dealership down 3K on a brand new 350Z since they already sell like hotcakes. The RX-8 also STARTS at 27K. I'm afraid your RWD 25K market doesn't exist, champ.

Oh, and by the way: All those cars you mentioned are not in this segment what-so-ever.

Why don't all of you giving my negative rep please come forward and tell me who you know that's gotten a RX-8 or 350Z out the door for 25K?

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by svensko

Miata starts at 21K. Not sure what kinda dealer markup you've heard of people paying. A BASE 350Z starts at 28K. the Lexus is only 2K more. The Honda is only 4K more. The Vette and the BMW may be out of the price range, however good luck talking a Dealership down 3K on a brand new 350Z since they already sell like hotcakes. The RX-8 also STARTS at 27K. I'm afraid your RWD 25K market doesn't exist, champ.

Oh, and by the way: All those cars you mentioned are not in this segment what-so-ever.

Hence the discussion of of the NEW 25k RWD coupe market.
There is nothing in it right now, at least in the US.
Most of us on here are looking forward to this new market that several manufacturers are entering into over the next couple years.
Please read this thread so you can realize what's going on before spouting off opinions that make you look like an idiot.
The Honda is only 4k more than the 28k 350z, which is already 3k more than the price range we are speaking of?
Hmm, only 7k over, not to mention it's a roadster...... Yeah, that fits right into our discussion.

[svensko]

Why did you completely ignore the fact that the Miata is manual, RWD, and <25k?

Even with the retractable hardtop, it's still <25K.

[Baka Sama]

Originally Posted by svensko

Miata starts at 21K. Not sure what kinda dealer markup you've heard of people paying. A BASE 350Z starts at 28K. the Lexus is only 2K more. The Honda is only 4K more. The Vette and the BMW may be out of the price range, however good luck talking a Dealership down 3K on a brand new 350Z since they already sell like hotcakes. The RX-8 also STARTS at 27K. I'm afraid your RWD 25K market doesn't exist, champ.

Oh, and by the way: All those cars you mentioned are not in this segment what-so-ever.

The RWD market im looking for are in the 15k-22k range. To me thats entry level sports cars for the average person. Mazda has been doing it for years with the miata. Hopefully the dodge Demon and Hyundais coupe will jump into the mix. A new 350z is NOT entry level, thus the need to come up with a cheaper car (Urge). Lexus =30,000... No.

[svensko]

As the regulations of emissions rise, so will prices. Light cars are already hard the find (the C6, 350Z, and RX-8 are all at or above 3000 pounds). You guys act like a 240SX was 15K when they were first released. Here's a hint: they weren't. Your expectations of the car market are unreasonable.

BTW the Hyundai coupe you're referring to is called the Genesis.
http://hyundaiconceptgenesis.com/
The site states it will have an automatic RWD V8. It's not targeted towards tyte tunahs, it's targeted towards old people that are cheap but still want a half decently powered car.

Also, why would a car manufacturer put the R&D into a low powered car they could sell for 15K when they could put just as much work and effort into a higher powered car and sell it for twice as much? It's all about the money, and you don't make money by barely making a profit on some poor car that's going to be modified (with parts provided by aftermarket companies, mind you, that the manufacturer will never see) the second they leave the lot?

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by svensko

Miata starts at 21K. Not sure what kinda dealer markup you've heard of people paying. A BASE 350Z starts at 28K. the Lexus is only 2K more. The Honda is only 4K more. The Vette and the BMW may be out of the price range, however good luck talking a Dealership down 3K on a brand new 350Z since they already sell like hotcakes. The RX-8 also STARTS at 27K. I'm afraid your RWD 25K market doesn't exist, champ.

Oh, and by the way: All those cars you mentioned are not in this segment what-so-ever.

Why don't all of you giving my negative rep please come forward and tell me who you know that's gotten a RX-8 or 350Z out the door for 25K?

Ummm, no shit. That's what this thread is about. A new segment that Hyundai , Nissan, and Mazda are spearheading.

Seriously. Go find your way over to NICO. Your bugging me.

Miata Hardtops do not start at $21k.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by svensko

As the regulations of emissions rise, so will prices. Light cars are already hard the find (the C6, 350Z, and RX-8 are all at or above 3000 pounds). You guys act like a 240SX was 15K when they were first released. Here's a hint: they weren't. Your expectations of the car market are unreasonable.

BTW the Hyundai coupe you're referring to is called the Genesis.
http://hyundaiconceptgenesis.com/
The site states it will have an automatic RWD V8. It's not targeted towards tyte tunahs, it's targeted towards old people that are cheap but still want a half decently powered car.

Also, why would a car manufacturer put the R&D into a low powered car they could sell for 15K when they could put just as much work and effort into a higher powered car and sell it for twice as much? It's all about the money, and you don't make money by barely making a profit on some poor car that's going to be modified (with parts provided by aftermarket companies, mind you, that the manufacturer will never see) the second they leave the lot?

The SEDAN IS CALLED THE GENESIS.

OMG I can't stand even reading your nonsense.

[svensko]

Miata hardtops start at $24,995, which, if I've done my math correctly, is still below $25k!

http://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/av...n/hellion.aspx

You must be talking about this monstrousity, since I see no mention of a RWD coupe anywhere on their site.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by svensko

Why did you completely ignore the fact that the Miata is manual, RWD, and <25k?

Even with the retractable hardtop, it's still <25K.

Because it's a convertible.
Even with the retractable hardtop it's still a roadster.
Convertibles have less utility and (usually) less structural rigidity than coupes.
If Mazda had released their gorgeous Mazda MX5 Coupe in the US, it would be included in the discussion.
However, most of us want a fixed-roof coupe.
Hence the reason that 95% of the cars owned by Zilvians are hardtops and not the verts.

Originally Posted by svensko

You guys act like a 240SX was 15K when they were first released. Here's a hint: they weren't. Your expectations of the car market are unreasonable.

I have a magazine ad from 1989 showing the price of the 240sx starting under 12k.
adjusted for inflation, that slots in nicely to the market we are discussing.

[Baka Sama]

Svensko, please stop. You have no idea what your talking about.

[svensko]

True, people prefer FRCs, but you act like cages aren't available for the car to improve structural rigidity. Don't even say that the people on this forum wouldn't put a cage in it, I've see Auto S13s with cages. Adjusted for inflation, that's around 20K, which does indeed fit the 25K requirement. But 1989 had much more slack safety regulations and emission regulations. Companies have to pay for the technology to meet emissions, which they pass on to the customer. So, don't even pretend like the car market is at all comparable to nearly 20 years ago.

Also, if you do find a RWD coupe for 15K, it's probably going to have <100 HP and the fit and finish worse than a GM product. Have fun modifying your brand new car and voiding your brand new warranty.

[ThatGuy]

Convertible =/= Coupe

Remove the Miata from your argument. It doesn't matter if it is caged or not, it is not a Coupe. Therefore, it is not in the discussion.

[svensko]

No one has answered why a car company would spend the money on R&D for a 15K car when they could easily put that money towards a car to sell for 30K. This world is all about profit, so I'm waiting.

[OptionZero]

Any car company that hasn't already started researching/developing such a segment would probably begin to do it just so you'll SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by svensko

No one has answered why a car company would spend the money on R&D for a 15K car when they could easily put that money towards a car to sell for 30K. This world is all about profit, so I'm waiting.

Because they have done research to suggest that it will be a profitable market. We are not the manufacturers and neither are you so therefore neither of us can prove that it will be or it won't be.

The fact of the matter is that Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, and Hyundia all have stated they are working on a small RWD coupe around the $25k price.

I answered your question now please go away.

[Baka Sama]

Originally Posted by svensko

Also, if you do find a RWD coupe for 15K, it's probably going to have <100 HP and the fit and finish worse than a GM product. Have fun modifying your brand new car and voiding your brand new warranty.

Speaking only for myself a car doesnt need to have 300hp to be fun. As long as its light weight and handles well then thats all it needs. Take for instance the miata, the MR2 spyder, and hmm.. I dunno the 240sx. Your in the wrong forum if you think we care about keeping the car stock.

[Yuri]

Svensko, you're not even making sense anymore.
How many of us buy a fun car, and the want to have to add a cage as soon as we get it?
So I'm going to buy a miata, and put a cage in it, so I can have a convertible that is even more cramped, and less daily-driver friendly than it was to begin with? Get real.

And of course the auto industry is different, but not as much as you think.
Yes there is new technology that is required, but new technology was also required back then.
The R&D cost for the existing technology is has already been paid for, it's just new technology that isn't. Back then, it was new stuff like urethane bumpers, and abs. Now it's stability control and side airbags. The market is always evolving. Back then an affordable sports coupe was 12k-15k.
Now its 20-25k.

I work in the automotive industry, have a car design degree, and so do many of my close friends.
I know what the manufacters have to deal with when bringing a car to market, and even know some cars that are coming to market that fit in this bracket.

Are you debating right now because you feel you have a point to make, or are you simply trying to dig yourself out of a hole?

[svensko]

Yuri, since you can find a sports coupe for 20-25K now a day, please, tell me the exact dealership I can go to and find this miracle car. I joined this forum because I do, in fact, own a S14. It's an amazingly fun car to drive, even with the high miles it has. Then again, I got it for really cheap, and wasn't expecting that much out of it. Trust me, after graduation, I'm moving up . As far as the cage comment, please go look at general and see how many doriftu tunahs togue champions have them. A lot. Also, have you never seen a Miata on the open road with the top down and a cage installed? Do you live under a rock?

As far as a point to prove, I really don't have one. The car market you are all talking about doesn't exist, and probably won't. FWDs get better MPG than RWDs and with the price of gas right now, car manufactures know that consumers want fuel efficient cars. Hell, some manufacturers are even having trouble meeting the EPA requirements. You honestly think they're going to turn a car from FWD to RWD to make 3000 (isn't that how many signatures your online petition for a new 240SX had earlier in the thread? ) enthusiasts happy to lose God knows how many sales to people that go for a FWD car with better MPG instead? The tunah market is a very small small market. And let's be honest, who here has 15K to throw at a 100 HP coupe anyways?

[Baka Sama]

Originally Posted by svensko

As far as a point to prove, I really don't have one.

Quoted for truth