Beejis60

Curious what you experienced guys like for coilovers on a pretty much strictly time attack vehicle. I was thinking of doing the Stance GR + Pro SS-Ds.

slider2828

Depends how much money you have....

SS-D's are just valved to be stiffer and use stiffer springs. Unless the tracks you run are silky smooth, I wouldn't get those...

KW's are nice but lack adjustability. I assume you are going sub $2000 for coils?

__________________
Turn and Burn!

Def

Nothing I've felt from Stance inspires confidence.

I'd do Koni 8610's up front and Z32 yellows in the rear if I were on a budget (~$1500).

8611s up front add compression adjustability, 8610s in the rear are a nice step up from yellows for rebound adjustability range and digressive valving.

__________________
Rear Upright Spherical Bearing Group Buy Redux!!!

92 Nissan 240SX S13 Hatch GT2876R - Constantly tinkering and lots of garage naps... Safety Red/Gloss Black

Beejis60

More or less. Maybe in upwards of 2500.

Did you get those backward? At first you're saying 8610's up front, then you're saying 8610's in the rear....
But either way, you would just swap these on and add some nice springs, I gather?

Aoshi112

No, you read it wrong.

Def gave you two options.

8610s up front and koni yellows in the rear for a budget setup.

or

8611s up front and 8610s in rear.

To do the 8611s/8610s you need a custom housing, springs, top hats, and some other stuff I maybe missing. You can do a search on the custom koni 8611/8610 setup. Lots of info for this.

Beejis60

Nice. Thanks dude. I'm liking this setup already. I've always loved konis but this is my first nissan experience and I didn't know how you nissan guys roll; apparently like I used to.

slider2828

Yeah do a search on it. They have an entire thread on how to assemble 8611 with ground control coils....

__________________
Turn and Burn!

tougefactory

If you're serious about racing, than Koni's will be a waste of money... Both 8610 and 8611 are Twintube dampers. If you don't know advantages of monotubes, just google it. There's a reason why non of the F1, Indy, Nascar, WRC cars use twintube. Also you're basically guessing the valving and spring rates with these shock inserts. I've personally rode in 8611 equipped M3 last month and it was probably one of the worst riding car I've experienced. Customer had too much spring for these dampers. He's now on Stance coilovers and he loves the ride quality and is running full 3 secs faster on 1:30 course.

SG Motorsports in canada has 350Z that was competing in Koni challenge, which you guessed it, have to use Koni dampers. He had his Koni dampers "custom valved" and spent pretty pennies for them. After the season was over, he installed Stance GR+ coilovers on the challenge Z and went to the track. The GR+ out of the box ran faster times and also he felt more confident at higher speeds. He even datalogged it and was shocked non the less.

__________________
*Work Wheels*Weds Wheels*Enkei*ADVAN*AME*Volk*Gramlights*SSR*
*Tomei*Greddy*HKS*MOTUL*HJC*PMU*Team Tech*Racetech*Status*

TF★ Facebook
For all the latest TF★ news visit our blog!!

tougefactory

Yes, you're partially correct. SS-D dampers use stiffer spring rates but does not mean they valved "stiffer", they are valved for the higher rates.

We have SS-D dampers for cars using non-street tire compounds. The reason is that race tires are much stiffer and have different compound than street tires and have much different slip angle and roll rate.

If the valving is balanced, even with high spring rates, the ride quality should not suffer.

There was a course in east coast the CIP racing competed in last year, where there was a dip in mid corner, this was a 4th gear corner. CIP runs 14-16k f / 10-12k r on his S14 equipped iwth GR+3ways. His car was the one of the few that was not bouncing over the dip and losing control. Few others that also wasn't bouncing was equipped with JRZ and motons.

There are many factors when it comes to choosing spring rates. Tire size, compound, track width, corner weight, engine(swap), etc.
Stance has over 80 podium finishes in the past 2yrs in time attack. Give them a call and they can lead you in the right direction.

__________________
*Work Wheels*Weds Wheels*Enkei*ADVAN*AME*Volk*Gramlights*SSR*
*Tomei*Greddy*HKS*MOTUL*HJC*PMU*Team Tech*Racetech*Status*

TF★ Facebook
For all the latest TF★ news visit our blog!!

tougefactory

Custom valved S13 GR+2way for a customer we just got.

__________________
*Work Wheels*Weds Wheels*Enkei*ADVAN*AME*Volk*Gramlights*SSR*
*Tomei*Greddy*HKS*MOTUL*HJC*PMU*Team Tech*Racetech*Status*

TF★ Facebook
For all the latest TF★ news visit our blog!!

DuffMan

Are there any shock dynos of these competition level Stances, because the last Stance dyno I saw was no so good.

Beejis60

Have proof of the 350z dude? I am aware of the monotube design and it's advantage(s), but wasn't really thinking about it at the time when reading about the 8611/8610. Thanks for reminding me. I haven't purchased anything yet but am still reading up on everything to make sure this is what I want. I don't quite trust random people's opinions when I'm making a $2-3k purchase because tbh, most people don't know their ass from their elbows.

I would love to see an explanation as to how coils play a factor on a dyno. Moreover, I don't really care about the dyno or numbers... I care about ET.

Aoshi112

Note, he said SHOCK dyno. Do you know what a shock dyno is?

besTint

i vote KW's for time attack.

__________________
http://squarespokes.com/

Def

Ummm... twin tubes WERE used in F1, Indy etc. in the early 80's and earlier before they went to bellcranks and needed a monotube for mounting purposes.

I've seen the inside of both a Stance GR+ and a lowly Koni yellow. The Stance is absolute GARBAGE in comparison (needle type foot valve rattles around, cheap plastic bushing, far too linear shim stack).

There's a reason you can get a replacement Stance damper for less than $100, and it's not because they're selling them below cost out of the goodness of their heart.


Nevermind that shock dynos show Stances to be laughably weak at low piston speeds and far too linear. They feel that way too, harsh and crashing over any sort of bump when you've got any amount of low speed damping, and as bouncy as any other cheap Chinese/Taiwanese damper at the lower damping ranges.


Nevermind that the "clicks" are a ton of holes drilled in the bottom of the adjuster and a spring loaded ball bearing to give you "lots of clicks" that do almost nothing once the needle valve is much off the seat.


Anyway, I'm really sure the Stance guys have actually had lots of experience with an 8611/8610... haha

__________________
Rear Upright Spherical Bearing Group Buy Redux!!!

92 Nissan 240SX S13 Hatch GT2876R - Constantly tinkering and lots of garage naps... Safety Red/Gloss Black

Def

Stance's target customer has never heard of a shock dyno. Sounds like the sale has been made... $70 "superior" monotube dampers dominate the guys that have been making dampers for all levels of real racing for decades!!!

__________________
Rear Upright Spherical Bearing Group Buy Redux!!!

92 Nissan 240SX S13 Hatch GT2876R - Constantly tinkering and lots of garage naps... Safety Red/Gloss Black

josh18_2k

if you're serious about racing (on a budget), you buy bilsteins and do work. they have adjustable shafts and canisters available now, in case you havnt heard. i know ohlins makes a race strut insert, but i have no idea how much they cost (a lot im sure). AST or KW are probably the best off-the-shelf options for strut equipped cars.

wtf is all this garbage about GR+'s being worlds better than 8611's?

SoBay240guy

it's called Toguefactory doesn't sell koni coilovers, so they can't be worth it I mean it says togue in their name so....like yeah

BTW if you are basically guessing the valving and spring rates it's because you can't read a shock dyno, and that puts you in the stance customer column anyway, atleast Koni has published data and you can actually choose the valving that matches your setup VS just getting what you get and hoping that someone else did their homework

__________________
I am SKULLWORKS

Perfect Balance

No, there isn't any shock Dynos. They claim to have them, but it's "confidential" so they won't post them. As if someone is going to look at a shock dyno and copy the damper design. Obviously the hard part isn't knowing what a shock dyno should look like, it's getting one to perform properly.

I vote KW Variant 3s. Decently priced and work well. They won't slam your car, but by then your suspension geometry is gone anyway.



Lol at TougeFactory trying to market Stance coils like they do to all the drifters and expecting the same result. Koni supplies dampers for pretty much every type of racing, including F1. Imagine if all these guys switched to Stance monotubes, they don't know what they're missing.

My car is on Fortune Autos, which aren't horrible, but they aren't great either, but my buddy has a set of Ohlins coilovers on his Miata which just put mine to shame, even though they've got the same springs rates.

Beejis60

Apparently not. I always ran konis on my previous piles but am spending a lot more money on this car is this is what I truly want, minus a widebody 964.

made me lol

And where did I say I was buying that shit? I had planned on going with the 8611/8610, however I completely forgot about the whole twin tube/monotube debate. I'm looking into Ohlin and Bilsteins and will likely custom fab some shit myself as I have full access to our machine shop.

So lets get back on track about coilover systems and not bitching about stance, tawianese shit, chinese shit, etc. I want quality parts; like I said, track-dedicated S13.

SoBay240guy

Beejis60

If you are serious about prepping a S-chassis for time attack you are tapping the wrong tree...this one's full of Sap not Syrup.

here you will find out how "hellaflush" and "stanced" you can make your bucket, but handling isn't something the average zilvian can even spell.

Try other s-chassis boards more aligned with road racing

__________________
I am SKULLWORKS

Forge_55b

If you actually understand suspension geometry and dynamics beyond that, you shouldn't need to ask a forum what you should get but you should already know what you are looking for and doing the homework on your own. A custom setup from Bilstein is what I would do but if you are on a budget, the Koni with GC setup is pretty awesome.

josh18_2k

asking a forum IS homework. taking the forum's responses blindly would be the problem.
i'm in the midst of sorting a bilstein setup, which i want valved right the first time, so many questions are asked from as many sources as possible.
threads like these definately serve to point ppl in the right direction (Def and company's responmses, not tougefartery lol)

racer98

+ 1 what others have said but if your thinking of going pro you would need to make sure suspension items meet or exceed TUV specs, with that said that would limit you to some really expensive items such as

OHLINS
JRZ

and you do not want to know what those go for.


only way to get the perfect suspension is not only by reference by asking others but to have multi type of coilovers to try our+no race track is the same so each suspension setting and dampener is different.

good luck with the suspension set up, its never perfect and when it is its time to rip it all out and head back to the alignment shop.

Beejis60

Ya, through the digging in the past day, I've found what appears to be less bro shit and douchebaggery on another forum.

As I said before, this is my first nissan so I don't have any experience with the multilink, or macphersons for that matter, so thanks for reading.

Ohlins are not that expensive imo, but I didn't see a direct fitment; I did however see some people selling Ohlins S13 coilovers which is strange to me unless they've just been d/c'd or vendors just quit carrying that coilover.

azndummie

id go kw 3 ways if i had the money, but stance 3 ways are an economical coil over that gives the same type of adjustment.

__________________

Silverbullet

I don't disagree with your opinion on the comparison of the two coilovers, BUT I just wanted to point out that your also comparing two different cars. The spring rates of the springs on the coilovers dosn't necessarily represent the overall ride stiffness. The angle of the spring and movement ratio of the arms attributes to this. Also they weight magnitutes different.

__________________

ManoNegra

Ohlins Japan offeres coilovers for all s-chassis.
Ohlins US doesn't
the sets that you see pop up on occassion for sale are JDM ones
Performanceshock.com can custom build you a set or rebuild your JDM ones

tougefactory

DEF>> Stance replacement dampers are $205/each. Please do not post false info.

__________________
*Work Wheels*Weds Wheels*Enkei*ADVAN*AME*Volk*Gramlights*SSR*
*Tomei*Greddy*HKS*MOTUL*HJC*PMU*Team Tech*Racetech*Status*

TF★ Facebook
For all the latest TF★ news visit our blog!!

tougefactory

Here's a dyno comparision of Stance S13 Front for 8kg/mm and Ohlins WRX Front for 7kg/mm. Stance is Orange.
I had to stretch the Ohlins dyno for scaling reasons. For reference 1000N = 225lbs , .10 m/sec=4in/sec.
Note: Rule of thumb for valving - Lower spring rate = higher comp force, lower rebound force. vice versa. Hence Ohlins higher comp and lower rebound.
Notice the excellent low speed rebound and compression range on the Stance. Similar digressive curve for the compression for good high speed bump.
On the rebound, the curve is almost identical until the Ohlin's second knee, which is the DFV working. Pretty koo.

__________________
*Work Wheels*Weds Wheels*Enkei*ADVAN*AME*Volk*Gramlights*SSR*
*Tomei*Greddy*HKS*MOTUL*HJC*PMU*Team Tech*Racetech*Status*

TF★ Facebook
For all the latest TF★ news visit our blog!!